How LETHAL is PAF J-10C Vigorous Dragon? The Game Changer for Pakistan Air Force...by Sqn Ldr (R) Fahad Masood, a former PAF mirage specialist.

[maverick1977]

yup, for the first time i agree with wikipedia information.

View attachment 866764
PL15 spotted on JF-17 Block 2 under trials in the skies of Pakistan. Earlier PAF has received it's first consignment of 100 PL15 missiles from China for integration on it's existing fleet of Thunders.
This pic was shared on march 14 2019 by ACE OF PAF's FB page.

https://www.facebook.com/ACEofPAF/photos/a.710120069095290/2041290365978247

If u guys dont know ACE OF PAF is a page ran by 2 serving F16 pilots of PAF, They were the first ones back in 2019 as well who revealed the specs of JF17C Block III in their page's utube account. Before them sharing its details, jf17C Block III was all speculation.

Here is a Photo they shared abt themselves(obviously blurring their faces) with their F16BM.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRzh3wgnYv9J3TSPJqXiFUg/community?lb=UgyBO_MbEh_msU3dMIJ4AaABCQ

There was no such thing as PL15E with 145km range back then. PL15E was revealed in 2021 if im not wrong, 2 years AFTER existence of pl15 in PAF's service.

@bilal read this post, and carefully.


12 most likely.

looking from the size of PL15, JF17 might be able to carry 4 Max...

 

[RescueRanger]

Good post, @Umair Nawaz thank you for sharing.

 

[MastanKhan]

-Conformed! that J10 series ARE ISRAELI LAVIs, this happened in 1988.

-Conformed! PL10e's HOBS capability with 90 deg. targeting angles same as Aim 9X

-a little correction, PAF j10s r known to carry ws10b not AL31. This interview i suppose was recorded BEFORE J10s hit the runways of Pak. As we all believed back then AL31 engines will be their powerplants.

-Conformed! PL15E is a dual pulse motor missile with speed to upto mach 4 not 3.

-Conformed! that with Delta-Canard design its turn rate capability is immensely improved(Thats why i specifically mentioned him being an experienced mirage pilot as he knows very well the Delta design's shortcomings) and J10s r equipping a mirage sqn in PAF called no 15 Cobras.

-Conformed! The order of J10CE is of 36 for PAF not 25 as Indian media claimed and from there picked up by the west. 3 Sqns, 15 each in 2 sqns and a 3rd of 6 for CCS.

-Conformed! very low strings attached, And PAC Kamra will be responsible for its maintenance, overhaul and maybe future updates.

-Conformed! PAF through Shaheen Series exe. have flown J10s in Pakistan and China as well previously, (Hence i presume it wasnt difficult to train our pilots, 24 pilots were certified trained on this type as of march when first 6 arrived and same for tactics development as PAF is well aware of it through Shaheen series exe. This info was shared on the forum by a senior member)

Some more interesting and juicy info abt J10C, ie their Golden Canopies J20 style.

Hi,

Thanks for the post. I did not see that he was a PAF officer---so I did not watch the video.

The info about the Lavi---one of our german member will not like that.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Hi,

Thanks for the post. I did not see that he was a PAF officer---so I did not watch the video.

The info about the Lavi---one of our german member will not like that.

well, tell him with respect, the world doesnt revolve around him or his small Europe. World is far too big.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Good post, @Umair Nawaz thank you for sharing.

aye! im in this forum since 2012, or ye itny ache alfaaz pehli baar apne mery lea kahe hain!

Ye Kayamat ki Nishani ha!

 

[MH.Yang]

PL-15 and PL-15E are very different. This is what needs to be determined most.

 

[Signalian]

Detail of J10CE of PAF by Sqn Ldr (R) Fahad Masood, who himself used to be a Mirage pilot of PAF, His own home Sqd Cobras r the first ones to get J10CEs. So listen to him, he knows what he is talking abt.

-Conformed! that J10 series ARE ISRAELI LAVIs, this happened in 1988.

-Conformed! PL10e's HOBS capability with 90 deg. targeting angles same as Aim 9X

-a little correction, PAF j10s r known to carry ws10b not AL31. This interview i suppose was recorded BEFORE J10s hit the runways of Pak. As we all believed back then AL31 engines will be their powerplants.

-Conformed! PL15E is a dual pulse motor missile with speed to upto mach 4 not 3.

-Conformed! that with Delta-Canard design its turn rate capability is immensely improved(Thats why i specifically mentioned him being an experienced mirage pilot as he knows very well the Delta design's shortcomings) and J10s r equipping a mirage sqn in PAF called no 15 Cobras.

-Conformed! The order of J10CE is of 36 for PAF not 25 as Indian media claimed and from there picked up by the west. 3 Sqns, 15 each in 2 sqns and a 3rd of 6 for CCS.

-Conformed! very low strings attached, And PAC Kamra will be responsible for its maintenance, overhaul and maybe future updates.

-Conformed! PAF through Shaheen Series exe. have flown J10s in Pakistan and China as well previously, (Hence i presume it wasnt difficult to train our pilots, 24 pilots were certified trained on this type as of march when first 6 arrived and same for tactics development as PAF is well aware of it through Shaheen series exe. This info was shared on the forum by a senior member)

Some more interesting and juicy info abt J10C, ie their Golden Canopies J20 style.

PAF squadron strength is 16 or 16+ usually an exception being 19th.


On a lighter note, conform means to comply with rules, standards, or laws.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

PAF squadron strength is 16 or 16+ usually an exception being 19th.


On a lighter note, conform means to comply with rules, standards, or laws.

he has conformed that 36 jets r coming in 3 sqns. Watch the video.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The plane should be inducted closer to 54 units units at least
> Just as a permanent backup of F16

So that if need be the numbers can be boosted to 250 crafts

However if Project Azm is actually close to demonstration stage , I would imagine numbers would be locked to just 54 units

 

[Umair Nawaz]

@Signalian o chacha g phir kahe gy k main ap faujion k IQ ka mazaq urrata hun. Ye fazaiya ka he banda ha, ye khud keh raha ha k 36 jahaz aa rahe hain or 3 sqns bannain gy.
This only can mean that 2 full sqns of 15 units each and a 3rd for CCS with the rest ie 6 units.

And 16/16+ isnt hard n fast rule.....Check the strength of ex jordanian F16 ADV sqn in bholari. And conform in this context means conformation of information we already had beforehand through a reliable source who HIMSELF IS A PILOT n whose own home sqn is reequipping with this jet on the first place. And his fellow mirage pilots r being trained to fly with a/c type ie course mates/sqn mates.

abb samajh aye sohniyo?

The plane should be inducted closer to 54 units units at least
> Just as a permanent backup of F16

So that if need be the numbers can be boosted to 250 crafts

However if Project Azm is actually close to demonstration stage , I would imagine numbers would be locked to just 54 units

numbers will go to 72 for now. 36 J10C and then 36 J10D......later more can be added too upto 110,
f16 if not updated before 2030, will start being replaced in 2030s by Project Azm and if its not ready then by either a foreign 5th gen fighter or j10's future variants making numbers go 100+ of j10 fleet.

 

[Signalian]

@Signalian o chacha g phir kahe gy k main ap faujion k IQ ka mazaq urrata hun. Ye fazaiya ka he banda ha, ye khud keh raha ha k 36 jahaz aa rahe hain or 3 sqns bannain gy.
This only can mean that 2 full sqns of 15 units each and a 3rd for CCS with the rest ie 6 units.

And 16/16+ isnt hard n fast rule.....Check the strength of ex jordanian F16 ADV sqn in bholari. And conform in this context means conformation of information we already had beforehand through a reliable source who HIMSELF IS A PILOT n whose own home sqn is reequipping with this jet on the first place. And his fellow mirage pilots r being trained to fly with a/c type ie course mates/sqn mates.

abb samajh aye sohniyo?


numbers will go to 72 for now. 36 J10C and then 36 J10D......later more can be added too upto 110,
f16 if not updated before 2030, will start being replaced in 2030s by Project Azm and if its not ready then by either a foreign 5th gen fighter or j10's future variants making numbers go 100+ of j10 fleet.

I have already mentioned 19th Sqd where as 29th Sqd CCS has 9 x F-16s I am guessing.
As for J-10's, PAF may have a plan to raise another elite CCS squadron like 29th for J-10s where 4 or 6 x J-10 might be a lower number. We can only speculate about the future.

The number 15 conforms with PAF standard squadron size, let's hope so

 

[MastanKhan]

well, tell him with respect, the world doesnt revolve around him or his small Europe. World is far too big.

Hi,

The 2nd thing he won't like is the similarity between the J35 and the Korean 5th gen.

Awhile ago I wrote regardig design limitations of 5th gen design---that the form and design of the 5th gen aircrafts would be very similar because there are not too many geometric options of ideal stealth design available.

Even though for 4.5 gen and non stealth conventional aircraft can have as many designs as possible.

 

[S10]

Just chiming in a bit about PL-15 that PAF is using. We are aware the PL-15E has a range of 145km, but that's the export model shown at Zhuhai airshow. Pakistan generally utilizes the same models as PLAAF with slight modifications, rather than the dumbed down export versions. During the Kargil Conflict, PAF had the option to directly pull from PLAAF inventory should it needed additional planes. That's not just some friendly gesture, but indications that PAF pilots were already well familiar with operating Chinese planes and weapon systems. Without some degree of interoperability, pilots can't jump into a random plane and expect to perform in combat.

Going by that bit of tradition, Pakistan is likely using China's domestic version of PL-15 with over 180km range.

 

[MH.Yang]

Pakistan has many precedents of using PLA equipment of the same level instead of the export version.
I also think PAF will use PL-15 instead of PL-15E.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

I have already mentioned 19th Sqd where as 29th Sqd CCS has 9 x F-16s I am guessing.
As for J-10's, PAF may have a plan to raise another elite CCS squadron like 29th for J-10s where 4 or 6 x J-10 might be a lower number. We can only speculate about the future.

The number 15 conforms with PAF standard squadron size, let's hope so

aggressors will stay with F16 variants in CCS. J10 wont unless we get J10D/E/F of future....the least no in CCS for any a/c type is 6.

BTW 16/16+ sqn strength isnt hard n fast rule for high end a/c. Point still stands. Another example, check the strength of Nauman Akram Shaheed's f16 sqn.

And J10 is a HIGH END FIGHTER! its now the PAF's high end and best fighter, F16 is dethroned.

haha u might want to follow the PAF affiliated twitter public accounts to truly gauge the mood in PAF abt j10c and her impact on PAF's psyche. For whom F16 used to be the hallmark of excellence before 2020 shaheen exe when PLAAF allowed for the first time unrestricted use in these exe. For the first time PAF SAW what truly is a 4.5++ is, and how the real n true 5th gen technology that it carries of J20 are! That a/c backed up by unrestricted PLAAF jammer/EW aircrafts, Their latest AWACS that they brought for these exe. etc Had really raped PAF no matter what they threw at them they had an answer for it. They truly made PAF felt helpless and beaten them constantly as if u tide a person then starting yr barrage of laatain mukkay on him. As much as helpless he feels, thats how helpless PAF felt infront of them. And According to windjammer, these exercises almost gave somebody in PAF high command a heart attack back in december 2020. Now thats whats happening amongst the regular PAF pilots too specially amongst F16 sqns.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1550161378106904576

My God man! i still cant forgive myself of how wrong i was abt the analysis of @MastanKhan all these years. And whatever Mastan Sahab used to say, is now proving right one by one. He and @Khafee both were right abt J10C.

Now this fact is coming on the surface right in public view.