Honeywell's F125IN Engine To Upgrade India's Jaguar Fighter Aircraft[Video]

[arp2041]

Indian Air Force's [IAF] SEPECAT Jaguar Fighter Aircrafts require a more powerful engine to power its upgraded capabilities. Honeywell Aerospace is the only contender with a solution - its F125IN Engine.

A video presentation highlighting its features & advantages over its, now non-existent, competition - Rolls Royce's Adour Mk821. Narration sounds strangely machine generated. HAL & Honeywell are yet to respond to the Indian Ministry Of Defence's [MOD] Request For Proposal [RFP], it appears. Given 30 more days to comply with the requirements.

Honeywell's F125IN Engine To Upgrade India's Jaguar Fighter Aircrafts [Video] - AA Me, IN

 

[Skull and Bones]

Any new weapon systems to be integrated with it?

 

[arp2041]

Any new weapon systems to be integrated with it?

You talking about Jags upgrade???

this will help:

https://sites.google.com/site/idpsentinel/air-force-projects/fighters/jaguar-upgrade

 

[GURU DUTT]

Indian Air Force's [IAF] SEPECAT Jaguar Fighter Aircrafts require a more powerful engine to power its upgraded capabilities. Honeywell Aerospace is the only contender with a solution - its F125IN Engine.

A video presentation highlighting its features & advantages over its, now non-existent, competition - Rolls Royce's Adour Mk821. Narration sounds strangely machine generated. HAL & Honeywell are yet to respond to the Indian Ministry Of Defence's [MOD] Request For Proposal [RFP], it appears. Given 30 more days to comply with the requirements.

Honeywell's F125IN Engine To Upgrade India's Jaguar Fighter Aircrafts [Video] - AA Me, IN

Go for it even Sonia ji wont mind

 

[Skull and Bones]

Another question, are we buying Aim-9 sidewinder or Maverick Missile or Joint Standoff Weapons from US?

 

[sancho]

Another question, are we buying Aim-9 sidewinder or Maverick Missile or Joint Standoff Weapons from US?

None of them, most likely SR missile will be Asraam and if at all the addition of cluster bombs, although the Mirage / Rafale would be the better options. We shouldn't waste too much money on an old gen single role fighter anymore.

 

[arp2041]

None of them, most likely SR missile will be Asraam and if at all the addition of cluster bombs, although the Mirage / Rafale would be the better options. We shouldn't waste too much money on an old gen single role fighter anymore.

But sancho, 100 mig-27s & 150 mig-21s will be retired by 2017, means 250 ac when it will be replaced by about 100 sukhois + 40 rafales + 40 lca = 180 ac i.e. IAF will be short of 50-60 fighters already. If now we don't upgrade Jags, we are talking about another shortage of 120 odd ac. So i think IAF has done the right thing by making this ac fly till 2030.

 

[Sergi]

But sancho, 100 mig-27s & 150 mig-21s will be retired by 2017, means 250 ac when it will be replaced by about 100 sukhois + 40 rafales + 40 lca = 180 ac i.e. IAF will be short of 50-60 fighters already. If now we don't upgrade Jags, we are talking about another shortage of 120 odd ac. So i think IAF has done the right thing by making this ac fly till 2030.

IAf should have sold these Jags to some poor AF and used that money and the the upgrade money to buy 40 Rafles off the shelf. 40 Rafales will always be better power projection over 120+ Jags any day

 

[arp2041]

IAf should have sold these Jags to some poor AF and used that money and the the upgrade money to buy 40 Rafles off the shelf. 40 Rafales will always be better power projection over 120+ Jags any day

Just One Thing - Technology can never be a Substitute for Nos.

Yes, i agree that 1 Rafale will be atleast 5 times more capable than a Jaguar, but this is also a fact that 120 Jaguar can be at 120 places in one time, this is important because we have every possibility of fighting a two-front war. There is a reason why IAF desperately wants to increase it's squadron strength to 42 even when it is adding more capable ac like super sukhois, rafale, lca, etc. each year. Look at PLAAF for eg. they have around 1500 fighter jets, 50-60% are of just 3rd gen. but it is still the sheer nos. that makes the PLAAF one of the most fearful AFs around the world.

 

[sancho]

But sancho, 100 mig-27s & 150 mig-21s will be retired by 2017, means 250 ac when it will be replaced by about 100 sukhois + 40 rafales + 40 lca = 180 ac i.e. IAF will be short of 50-60 fighters already. If now we don't upgrade Jags, we are talking about another shortage of 120 odd ac. So i think IAF has done the right thing by making this ac fly till 2030.

I didn't said they shouldn't be upgraded at all, but it's simply not a useful platform anymore and therefor the upgrade should be limited to neccessary and cost-effective stuff only. In 2017 we will have 270 x MKIs, the LCA and Rafales you mentioned, not to mention more than 100 x Mig 29s and Mirage 2000s and all of them will be at least as useful as the upgraded Jags, most even far superior in the strike role., so what's the use of a too big upgrade?
Extend their life and replace them around 2025 and try to sell the newer once (produced till 2008) as soon as possible to african or Asian countries.

 

[Sergi]

Just One Thing - Technology can never be a Substitute for Nos.

Yes, i agree that 1 Rafale will be atleast 5 times more capable than a Jaguar, but this is also a fact that 120 Jaguar can be at 120 places in one time, this is important because we have every possibility of fighting a two-front war. There is a reason why IAF desperately wants to increase it's squadron strength to 42 even when it is adding more capable ac like super sukhois, rafale, lca, etc. each year. Look at PLAAF for eg. they have around 1500 fighter jets, 50-60% are of just 3rd gen. but it is still the sheer nos. that makes the PLAAF one of the most fearful AFs around the world.

We shouldn't involve PLAF here. But as you mention it's not the case. You can't use quantity as a quality in Air. Most of 3rd gen AC will never know what hit them. PLAF is a big airforce. No doubt. But their advantage is in defending. Not in attacking. That's why they are upgrading their fleet and having 2/3 next gen programmes
Fight is never 1 vs 1.
A heard of 6/7 Rafales at one place can take care of 40 +Jags

If certain simulations are to be belived
A F-22 can take down 20 Su-27/6 Rafales/7Thppons before going down. That's what half generation can make difference. And we are talking about full generation difference

 

[MST]

IAf should have sold these Jags to some poor AF and used that money and the the upgrade money to buy 40 Rafles off the shelf. 40 Rafales will always be better power projection over 120+ Jags any day

You are missing the most important piece of the puzzle. Pilot training and familiarity with the platform will take years. E.g. It took IAF almost a decade to deploy Su 30 MKI in forward areas. For the first few years they were exclusively based in Pune. Expect a similar time frame for Rafales after the first one arrive. So I am expecting around 2025 when IAF will be confident with the new platform and deploy it in forward areas. This was the main reason why Mirages were upgraded. And also why Jags must be upgraded too.

In doing our arithmetic we should not forget this critical piece.

 

[Sergi]

You are missing the most important piece of the puzzle. Pilot training and familiarity with the platform will take years. E.g. It took IAF almost a decade to deploy Su 30 MKI in forward areas. For the first few years they were exclusively based in Pune. Expect a similar time frame for Rafales after the first one arrive. So I am expecting around 2025 when IAF will be confident with the new platform and deploy it in forward areas. This was the main reason why Mirages were upgraded. And also why Jags must be upgraded too.

In doing our arithmetic we should not forget this critical piece.

IAF operates M2Ks for decades now. Rafales is said to be similar in operations with M2K. So familiarities is no problem. Training and study might take 2/3 years to understand true capabilities but I heard IAF team is already in France.

You are wrong on MKIs. It doesn't take us decade to learn how to use it. You can check the details about IAFs training with other AF from 2005. We induct MKI in 01/02 and we were good in 2005. It was the low production rate and the manditatory testing of every assembled platform that keep them tied down to Pune which is closest to Nasik. Now it's fast cust HAL production rate is nearly 30+ per year

 

[MST]

IAF operates M2Ks for decades now. Rafales is said to be similar in operations with M2K. So familiarities is no problem. Training and study might take 2/3 years to understand true capabilities but I heard IAF team is already in France.

You are wrong on MKIs. It doesn't take us decade to learn how to use it. You can check the details about IAFs training with other AF from 2005. We induct MKI in 01/02 and we were good in 2005. It was the low production rate and the manditatory testing of every assembled platform that keep them tied down to Pune which is closest to Nasik. Now it's fast cust HAL production rate is nearly 30+ per year

No offence but your post doesn't make any sense. I will try to explain but don't expect further response on this. Since if you can't understand after this post then we should agree to disagree.

MKI was inducted 2000. But the first su 30 came way back in 1997. Short history below. You can read more here The Su-30MKI Info Page - Vayu Sena

The first batch (Su-30MK-I) of 8 aircraft would be delivered in 1997. These were 'standard' Su-30s (a development of the Su-27UB) and contained 100% (probably) Russian components and are primarily sir-superiority aircraft only. These fighters were first delivered to India at Lohegaon AFS in March 1997. They were inducted into the IAF on 11 June 1997 by the then Prime Minister, Inder Kumar Gujral. These planes are currently in service with IAF with serial nos SB001 to SB008 in the No. 24 Hawks squadron based at Lohegaon AFS.

The second batch (Su-30MK-IIs) of another 8 aircraft would be delivered in 1998 and would be fitted with Sextant Avionique's avionics from France, liquid crystal multi-function displays (MFDs), a new flight data recorder, a dual ring laser gyro INS (inertial navigation system) with embedded GPS (Global Positioning Satellite), EW (Electronic Warfare) equipment procured from Israel's IAI (Israeli Aircraft Industries), a new electro-optical targeting system and a RWR (Radar Warning Receiver).

The third batch (Su-30MK-IIIs) of 12 aircraft would be delivered in 1999 and would feature canard foreplanes

The fourth and final batch (Su-30MKIs) of 12 aircraft would be delivered in 2000 and would add the AL-31FP turbofans.

So even if we consider 2000 still its almost a decade since they are being deployed in forward bases. And please don't give me examples of exercises. Taking a plane into exercise and taking a plane into war is totally different matter. Only when the IAF deployed the plane in forward bases the plane is ready to go to war.

Point regarding production rate. We production rate is one factor. The more important factor is pilot production rate. Here you go. Indian Air Force short of 363 pilots: Report - India - IBNLive

Now even if you produce 100 planes a year which is possible you definitely can't fly them if you don't have pilots.

Regarding your first point that since we fly mirages so we can learn to fly rafales in 2-3 years is laughable. No airforce in the world can master an aircraft in 2-3 years. Not even the USA and not even f22 that almost flies by itself.

Its like saying since we fly mig 21 since 1970 we can masters su 30 in 2 years time.
Rafale is whole generation ahead of mirage. With totally different interface and totally different flight characteristics. And thats why we are paying a fortune for it. Only thing that will be probably common will be some weapons and maintenance of some part.

 

[Sergi]

No offence but your post doesn't make any sense. I will try to explain but don't expect further response on this. Since if you can't understand after this post then we should agree to disagree.

MKI was inducted 2000. But the first su 30 came way back in 1997. Short history below. You can read more here The Su-30MKI Info Page - Vayu Sena



So even if we consider 2000 still its almost a decade since they are being deployed in forward bases. And please don't give me examples of exercises. Taking a plane into exercise and taking a plane into war is totally different matter. Only when the IAF deployed the plane in forward bases the plane is ready to go to war.

Point regarding production rate. We production rate is one factor. The more important factor is pilot production rate. Here you go. Indian Air Force short of 363 pilots: Report - India - IBNLive

Now even if you produce 100 planes a year which is possible you definitely can't fly them if you don't have pilots.

Regarding your first point that since we fly mirages so we can learn to fly rafales in 2-3 years is laughable. No airforce in the world can master an aircraft in 2-3 years. Not even the USA and not even f22 that almost flies by itself.

Its like saying since we fly mig 21 since 1970 we can masters su 30 in 2 years time.
Rafale is whole generation ahead of mirage. With totally different interface and totally different flight characteristics. And thats why we are paying a fortune for it. Only thing that will be probably common will be some weapons and maintenance of some part.

I didn't quote you or request any info. We have more decent people on this forum for that. No offence intended.
Agree to disagree. Please skip. Don't quote

Laugh as much as you want. It's good for health. But one advice sometimes it's better to hear a difference of opinion than showing edges . Good luck