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Hazrat Ayesha's Age at Marriage.

I never claimed that these are my views , in any discussion you quote from various logical and technical sources .
yes i didnt use quote feature or quotation marks. but that doesnt means i am claiming them to be mine .

Yes you quote from various sources, but you are also supposed to cite those sources and/or make clear that you are quoting someone - neither of which you did.

and by the way check your earlier post you havent used quotation mark Dear . so dont jump around :)

If you would bother to give the rest of the posters the courtesy of reading the existing posts in the thread before spamming with your own, you would realize that as the thread starter, I included the first argument of Moiz Amjad in the first post - in quotes and with the link.

Here is the link to it, since you obviously don't bother to check what has been discussed in a conversation already.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/theology/7816-hazrat-ayeshas-age-marriage.html#post107133

The post you responded to was the exact same argument, reposted for your convenience, and even then, I clarified that I was referring to someone else's comments in the post immediately before that one. I also did indeed use quotes in that post. i can't help it of you don't have any observation skills and tunnel vision.

The post preceding the one in question:
Please read the arguments presented by the gentleman in that link, against Hadith that suggest Ayesha's age to be 7 or 9, and offer rebuttals if you can.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/theology/7816-hazrat-ayeshas-age-marriage-4.html#post117554

The post in question:
(notice the quotation marks in the beginning and at the end, and also note that this was a repeat of the same arguments quoted in the first post of the thread, and therefore something I assumed you would have had the courtesy to read before posting, and would know about.)
http://www.defence.pk/forums/theology/7816-hazrat-ayeshas-age-marriage-4.html#post117555
 
Moiz Amjad has presented a series of erudite and detailed arguments as to why the generally accepted ‘Sunni’ understanding of Aisha’s age (i.e. nine-years-old) when she married and had sex with Muhammad, based on commonly known narratives, is erroneous and contradictory.

However, on closer inspection, it appears he has produced arguments that can be broadly categorized into five categories:

A. Unjustified slanders against Hisham ibn Urwah and the other Iraqi narrators.
B. The use of non-sahih information to refute otherwise sahih hadiths.
C. The use of secondary, indirect sources in preference of direct testimonies.
D. The use of ‘imprecise’ dating in preference to specific dates and statements of age.
E. Personal opinion.

For these reasons, I reject Moiz Amjad’s attempt to discredit the ‘Aisha age’ hadiths, particularly those of Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim

I will now attach all the ‘Aisha age’ hadiths, both sahih and less sahih, noting that there is NO CONTRADICTION in the sahih hadiths of Bukhari, Muslim and Ibn Majah, and also those of Abu Dawud. The only contradictions are with those of ‘lesser’ authenticity such as the works of Tabari. and these are taken from various different sources and i dont claim to be mine :)
Dude the most compelling arguments was not slander or any of that. It was math.

Asma = 10 years older to Aisha
Asma dies at age 100.
Asma dies in the year 73H
Asma was born in year -27H.
Asma was 27 year old on 1H.
Aisha was married on 1H.
Asma was 27 year old on Aisha's Marriage.
Asma was 10 years older to Aisha...

Aisha's age = 27years - 10 years.
Aisha was 17 at her marriage.
 
Of Aisha’s age at marriage

Nilofar Ahmed | Opinion | From the Newspaper9 hours ago

IT is said that Hazrat Aisha was six years old when her nikah was performed with Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) in Makkah, and nine years old when she moved in to live with her husband in Madina after Hijra.

This piece of misinformation has led to the wrong view that child marriage has the sanction of Islam. It must be noted that establishing the authenticity of hadiths, the narrators’ circumstances and the conditions at that time have to be correlated with historical facts. There is only one hadith by Hisham which suggests the age of Hazrat Aisha as being nine when she came to live with her husband.

Many authentic hadiths also show that Hisham’s narration is incongruous with several historical facts about the Prophet’s life, on which there is consensus. With reference to scholars such as Umar Ahmed Usmani, Hakim Niaz Ahmed and Habibur Rehman Kandhulvi, I would like to present some arguments in favour of the fact that Hazrat Aisha was at least 18 years old when her nikah was performed and at least 21 when she moved into the Prophet’s house to live with him.

According to Umar Ahmed Usmani, in Surah Al-Nisa, it is said that the guardian of the orphans should keep testing them, until they reach the age of marriage, before returning their property (4:6). From this scholars have concluded that the Quran sets a minimum age of marriage which is at least puberty. Since the approval of the girl has a legal standing, she cannot be a minor.

Hisham bin Urwah is the main narrator of this hadith. His life is divided into two periods: in 131A.H. the Madani period ended, and the Iraqi period started, when Hisham was 71 years old. Hafiz Zehbi has spoken about Hisham’s loss of memory in his later period. His students in Madina, Imam Malik and Imam Abu Hanifah, do not mention this hadith. Imam Malik and the people of Madina criticised him for his Iraqi hadiths.

All the narrators of this hadith are Iraqis who had heard it from Hisham. Allama Kandhulvi says that the words spoken in connection with Hazrat Aisha’s age were tissa ashara, meaning 19, when Hisham only heard (or remembered), tissa, meaning nine. Maulana Usmani thinks this change was purposely and maliciously made later.

Historian Ibn Ishaq in his Sirat Rasul Allah has given a list of the people who accepted Islam in the first year of the proclamation of Islam, in which Hazrat Aisha’s name is mentioned as Abu Bakr’s “little daughter Aisha”. If we accept Hisham’s calculations, she was not even born at that time.

Some time after the death of the Prophet’s first wife, Hazrat Khadija, Khawla suggested to the Prophet that he get married again, to a bikrun, referring to Hazrat Aisha (Musnad Ahmed). In Arabic bikrun is used for an unmarried girl who has crossed the age of puberty and is of marriageable age. The word cannot be used for a six-year-old girl.

Some scholars think that Hazrat Aisha was married off so early because in Arabia girls mature at an early age. But this was not a common custom of the Arabs at that time. According to Allama Kandhulvi, there is no such case on record either before or after Islam. Neither has this ever been promoted as a Sunnah of the Prophet. The Prophet married off his daughters Fatima at 21 and Ruquiyya at 23. Besides, Hazrat Abu Bakr, Aisha’s father, married off his eldest daughter Asma at the age of 26.

Hazrat Aisha narrates that she was present on the battlefield at the Battle of Badar (Muslim). This leads one to conclude that Hazrat Aisha moved into the Prophet’s house in 1 A.H. But a nine-year-old could not have been taken on a rough and risky military mission.

In 2 A.H, the Prophet refused to take boys of less than 15 years of age to the battle of Uhud. Would he have allowed a 10-year-old girl to accompany him? But Anas reported that he saw Aisha and Umme Sulaim carrying goatskins full of water and serving it to the soldiers (Bukhari). Umme Sulaim and Umme Ammara, the other women present at Uhud, were both strong, mature women whose duties were the lifting of the dead and injured, treating their wounds, carrying water in heavy goatskins, supplying ammunition and even taking up the sword.

Hazrat Aisha used the kunniat, the title derived from the name of a child, of Umme Abdullah after her nephew and adopted son.
If she was six when her nikah was performed, she would have been only eight years his senior, hardly making him eligible for adoption. Also, a little girl could not have given up on ever having her own child and used an adopted child’s name for her kunniat.

Hazrat Aisha’s nephew Urwah once remarked that he was not surprised about her amazing knowledge of Islamic law, poetry and history because she was the wife of the Prophet and the daughter of Abu Bakr. If she was eight when her father migrated, when did she learn poetry and history from him?

There is consensus that Hazrat Aisha was 10 years younger than her elder sister Asma, whose age at the time of the hijrah, or migration to Madina, was about 28. It can be concluded that Hazrat Aisha was about 18 years old at migration. On her moving to the Prophet’s house, she was a young woman at 21. Hisham is the single narrator of the hadith whose authenticity is challenged, for it does not correlate with the many historical facts of the time.

The writer is a scholar of the Quran and writes on contemporary issues.
nilofar.ahmed58@gmail.com

Of Aisha
 
This is an issue I started thinking about after I read arguments, that used the more widely reported age of nine, to attack Islam and, Mohammed specifically. The argument is basically that a child of that age is obviously a "child", and therefore to consummate any sort of physical relationship with someone at that age is morally wrong, not to mention the physical and emotional trauma that the child would be subjected to.

Therefore if we consider such acts "immoral" today, how could a prophet of God commit an act that would not be moral for "all time"? I personally subscribe to the argument that Hazrat Ayesha's age is incorrectly reported as being 6/9, and as this gentleman argues, was more likely 16 or 17.


What was <i>Ayesha's</i> (ra) Age at the Time of Her Marriage to the Prophet (pbuh)?

1. Thank you, brother for proving the lies of the skeptics. However, enemies of the Muslims will keep on rolling out stories. Let us not pay attention to them.

2. Not only we Muslims, but most learned men and women in history have found The Holy Prophet (PBUH) a complete man with a spotless character which we are required to ameliorate. That is the Sunnah enjoined on us. How can anyone ever imagine a person of pristine character even consenting to such a marriage?

3. We Muslims must be careful against our enemies, the disciples of the Satan. If we bear in mind always that Hazrat Muhammad (SWS) was a perfect man, none / nothing can lead us into sitting in judgement over the Rasullallah.
 
However, enemies of the Muslims will keep on rolling out stories.
Well, that is also due to the fact that articles and analysis like those on this thread are not very commonplace in our media and in our discourse.

I am hopeful that as the media evolves and matures in Pakistan, it will seek to encourage such discourse and contribute towards further educating the masses about distortions of religion being perpetuated as facts.
 
Dude the most compelling arguments was not slander or any of that. It was math.

Asma = 10 years older to Aisha
Asma dies at age 100.
Asma dies in the year 73H
Asma was born in year -27H.
Asma was 27 year old on 1H.
Aisha was married on 1H.
Asma was 27 year old on Aisha's Marriage.
Asma was 10 years older to Aisha...

Aisha's age = 27years - 10 years.
Aisha was 17 at her marriage.

I had forgotten about this... Don't know where I dug up those numbers from back then.
 
Nevermind, just re-read post #1.

I never shared the same admiration for Sahih Hadiths that my other fellow Muslims do. They are human beings. Way back then it was a thing of pride to say "I got a nice young wife". The narrators may have massaged history and kept shifting her age younger and younger over the 200 years till when the Sahih Hadith got written.

200 years man, nothing can be Sahih in that long in the long chain of human Chinese whispers.
 
This is an issue I started thinking about after I read arguments, that used the more widely reported age of nine, to attack Islam and, Mohammed specifically. The argument is basically that a child of that age is obviously a "child", and therefore to consummate any sort of physical relationship with someone at that age is morally wrong, not to mention the physical and emotional trauma that the child would be subjected to.

Therefore if we consider such acts "immoral" today, how could a prophet of God commit an act that would not be moral for "all time"? I personally subscribe to the argument that Hazrat Ayesha's age is incorrectly reported as being 6/9, and as this gentleman argues, was more likely 16 or 17.


What was <i>Ayesha's</i> (ra) Age at the Time of Her Marriage to the Prophet (pbuh)?

Well, age issue is just to malign the personality of Holy Prophet. If you make research you will find in certain books after certain period of time this venom was injected intentionally. May be around 100 years ago. I research few authentic books been written before 200 years ago, non of them say Hazrat Iysha was 6 or 7 year old. I have prove it wrong mathematically.
 
Agno,

why is there any need to post from blogs over something NO ONE on this forum is competent to discuss?

And who is the person writing on the blog? Is she a shaykhah, a muftiyah, a faqiihah? Why would we believe she's even competent to comment on 3il ul 7adiith?
 
i was just answering the question of marrying a gal at that age and not the other aspects.

Now coming to your point in almost all the Islamic countries that age is same 18 years.

secondly i had seen gals being married and well off with regards to all other aspects so indeed they can do it.

But now coming to the aim of marriage well idont say that is the only aim and i am also not talking about morality here so lets take the example of such relations between boys and girls in the West ( I am not talking about morality here but just pure medical point of view).

NOw see there we can see young gals as young as age of 12 or 13 having sexual relations with boys now no matter they are not married legally but the actions are the same which married people perfrom so here in this case though they dont produce kids but are going through all such process of married life so what you say about this ???
Does this not affect them psychologically ???
If than why dont anyone question this practice

We do question this practice. There's a reason the age of consent (for sex, not just for marriage), is higher than that in most places.
 
Agno,

why is there any need to post from blogs over something NO ONE on this forum is competent to discuss?

And who is the person writing on the blog? Is she a shaykhah, a muftiyah, a faqiihah? Why would we believe she's even competent to comment on 3il ul 7adiith?
Nilofar's article is not the only one on this thread making the argument she did, and her qualifications are mentioned at the end of the article.

But in any case, you should be debating the merits of her argument (and the arguments of others on this thread), and not her qualifications.
 
Agno,

why is there any need to post from blogs over something NO ONE on this forum is competent to discuss?

And who is the person writing on the blog? Is she a shaykhah, a muftiyah, a faqiihah? Why would we believe she's even competent to comment on 3il ul 7adiith?

Along with the Sahih writers, they are the ones who have claimed in their books narrations by the Prophet's companions that Aisha was 6-9 years old at the time of her marriage. What does that tell you? Logic over Maulvi qualifications...

---------- Post added at 07:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:09 AM ----------

I thought religious topics is banned'd'd'd?

:blink:

True, but this was an old topic back when we had a forum dedicated to religion and theology.
 
Well Muslims have been defending Prophet's marriage for many years now. For me , its not even a problem. A man living in the tribal society of 7th century can not be judged by the standards of 21st Centuries. Today , cousin marriage is a taboo in the West while just 50 years back..it was common! Even Einstein was married to cousin marriage. According to Bible , Marry was also married to her cousin when she was "under-aged" (14/15 years old) ..Why Westerners never discuss that?

See this link .. A very good site explaining Islam ... His owner is a Pakistan :)

Why Prophet Muhammad married Aisha when she was only 9?

Also it is discussable that Aisha's actual age was 17-19 and not 9. Hadiths can contain scribal errors...
 
I think you are confused between Morality and Ethics . Morality is relative . Ethics is universal . Divinity is based in Ethics not morality ,that's what separate cults from Faith

man i dont exactly know the reason why you were banned but i am saying this from bottom of my heart that i have never seen more intelligent person than you on pdf.
 

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