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Govt turning Kashmir into separate state: BJP

Even when there is peace with Pakistan, india would have considerable armed presence in JK, due to its strategic value. Its not only Pakistan but also China. the only area where both can carry out a simultaneous attack.

Thats not really peace then is it - especially for the Kashmiris. You cannot tell me that they like living in a neighborhood that appears a war zone. I doubt China is going to extend itself for the sake of Pakistan in Kashmir, that is a bit of an over hyped concern. Eventually the IA is going to have to leave the territory - whether its a deployment to the LOC, or out of the territory completely.

Whether the growth rates are impressive or "true growth" is not the issue. The fact is that, relative to the past, there has been growth and increased revenue resulting in massive spending and development. If you follow Pakistan, you should realize that one of the primary concerns moving forward, after new elections, is the continuity of economic reforms - not a continuity of the "Kashmir Policy". There has been a paradigm shift in Pakistan in that respect. Once you see growth and development, its hard to throw it all away. That was what was missing in 1999.
 
I don't think indial will do that. Its almost impossible, because gradually Pakistan is steping back and india is realising that Kashmir is its part.
 
what kind of seperate state they are talking now. Have anybody see new world maps, in new maps Kashmir is shown as the part of India dispite of Disputed area. now this is the propoganda isn't it.
 
During my research on some other human rights issues I came across this report which was presented to the Human Rights Council in Geneva by an Ex Belgian Military Man who was posted as the UN Observer in Kashmir. His report seems to in line with the EU report on Kashmir. If the EU constitution is approved in November we will have on EU foreign Minister replacing the 30 odd individual Ministers of different EU nations. Such reports then will decide the way EU will think about Kashmir in future.

Belgian Association for Solidarity with Jammu And Kashmir

HUMAN RIGHTS COUNCIL


SIXTH SESSION
GENEVA, SEPTEMBER 2007




REPORT ON THE STUDY TOUR OF BEERSMANS PAUL, PRESIDENT OF THE BELGIAN ASSOCIATION FOR SOLIDARITY WITH J&K TO INDIA AND THE INDIAN J&K STATE FROM 17 JUNE TO 14 JULY 2007


5. CONCLUSIONS

Following conclusions can be drawn, based on the experiences of this visit to India and the Indian J&K State:
a. J&K, as it was before partition, is at present under the rule of three countries:
(1) China: Aksai Chin and a territory of 5.180 km2 ceded by Pakistan to China;
(2) India: J&K State comprising Jammu-region, the Kashmir-Valley and Ladakh;
(3) Pakistan: Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan (Northern Areas).


The population of these specific regions is totally different from each other: culture, history, traditions, language, religion, etc. In J&K State this is also the case for the three regions: Jammu-region, the Kashmir-Valley and Ladakh region. The link between these three regions can be called “Kashmiriyat” epitomised by tolerance, mutual respect, peace. In this respect it should be noted that the Kashmiris want the Kashmiri Pandits to return to the Valley, but this is only possible if their safety can be guaranteed.

b. Shops open early in the morning and close late in the evening, busy traffic, children going to school, etc. The general situation gave me the impression to function normally with the Kashmiris, men and women, young and old, doing their business, their shopping, their social meetings and having a chat, conducting their day-to-day activities.

c. Construction and reconstruction is in progress (see our photo gallery on http:///www.basjak.org ):
- In the Valley the railway link between Qazigund (in the east) and Baramulla (in the west) is progressing at an impressive pace and should be operational in 2008;
- new roads are constructed, existing roads are being repaired, improved and enlarged;
- new official buildings, hospitals, medical dispensations, schools, etc., etc. are being built;
- historical monuments are being restored or under renovation;
- fountains brighten up parks and busy crossings;
- shopping centres, hotels, residential areas, houses, posh villas, etc. are being built, renovated;
- mobile phone became common good and is operative in the remotest areas, and
- the car park is completely modernised: the latest and most expensive models can be seen in the Valley.

d. Priority must be given to end the sufferings of the Kashmiris. This can only be realised by stopping violence: zero violence. They want to have a future and jobs for themselves and their children. After 17 years of militancy it is high time to give the growing up generation a chance to have a normal youth and education.

e. Criminals are taking advantage of the troubled situation. They are abducting people for money, raping, murdering, extorting money from businesspersons, using mafia practices under the cover of ‘the movement’: militancy is a lucrative industry.

f. Violence has been rejected as an instrument for seeking a solution for a political problem. Pakistan should stop cross-border terrorism and cross-border infiltration, stop sending money, ammunition and weapons and stop giving training. Pakistan decides over peace or violence: as long as Pakistan supports terrorism, openly or covertly, there cannot be peace in J&K. Without peace there cannot be a solution.

g. The pace of the peace process is not encouraging, not optimistic. There is almost no space for progress due to the internal situation in Pakistan. Internal and external aspects are linked to each other: if the internal situation is not good then the external relations will be affected negatively. The peace process slows down and that is not because of India, but the domestic situation in Pakistan. Big issues such as Kashmir and Siachen will not inch forward. While the routine talks will go on, substantive outcomes will be hard to come by. The composite dialogue between India and Pakistan must go on. The process is slow and one should not expect a short-term solution. This can only be reached through small steps.

h. The dissident leaders insist that the Kashmiris must be taken into confidence. Now the peace process is only between India and Pakistan: it should be tripartite. On the other hand, most of them do not have a solution: they are floating the ideas and the four points proposal of Musharraf as a basis for negotiations. ‘Let a tripartite dialogue start and a solution will emerge automatically’, is their view.

i. The ‘opt-out’ option proposed by People’s Conference Chairman Sajad Lone does not find support in the Valley. There is some support in Jammu-region whereas in Leh district Ladakh Union Territory Front is fully supporting this option.

j. Everyone disavowed the statement of the Pakistani Ambassador in Brussels as if Gilgit-Baltistan (Northern Areas as this area was renamed by Pakistan) is a part of Pakistan and not of J&K. All of the people I met ascertained that Gilgit-Baltistan is a part of J&K within the 1947 borders. Pakistan treats this area and its population step motherly: they enjoy no status or even the semblance of democratic representation. They are kept in poverty, illiteracy and backwardness. The deprivation and lack of even very basic needs provision can be easily seen. A few locals are able to secure government jobs but even then they are paid up to 35% less than non-native employees; there is no local broadcast media. This must change and also their views and aspirations must be taken into consideration.

k. In the eyes of the mainstream parties the introduced CBM are important steps in the good direction and they insist on implementing much more CBM, especially improving trade relations and opening more roads across the LoC.

l. The dissident leaders are of the opinion that the impact of the CBM for the Kashmiris is almost none. They emphasise their aim and demand is not for a soft border or for CBM but for a final solution of the issue.

m. The Centre is still interested in having talks/contacts with the Kashmiri society, including the dissident leaders. Again and again the Centre invites them but they refuse to accept the invitation: they refuse to sit on the same table as the mainstream politicians as they are, in their eyes, a part of the Indian establishment. However, they must understand and accept that the Centre must also talk to the mainstream parties as they are the democratically elected representatives of the Kashmiris and also they are a part of the Kashmiri society.

n. A dialogue is necessary on three levels:
(1) bilateral level: between India and Pakistan;
(2) national level: between the Government of India, the J&K State Government and the representatives of the Kashmiri society;
(3) internal level: between the different regions of J&K.

o. Four out of five WG submitted their conclusions and recommendations to the Indian Prime Minister. Concrete results are expected soon and after their implementation the situation will normalise although the dissidents are of the opinion that the WG do not take the wishes and aspirations of the Kashmiris into consideration: the conclusions and recommendations have nothing to do with the peace process as they are only dealing with internal questions in order to address administrative problems.

p. There is no doubt that human rights violations are committed by the security forces and by the militants. There is also no doubt that not all cases of human rights violations committed by the security forces are disclosed or prosecuted. It is also a fact that the security forces always are blamed if something happens. Dissident leaders do not mention and are not critical on human rights violations committed by militants or ordinary crimes committed by bandits.

q. A fundamental change of mindset among the security forces is needed regarding their attitude towards civilians. Organising crackdowns on a Sunday in an overcrowded ‘Sunday mark’ or on the so busy Boulevard along Dal Lake are not increasing the feeling of security among the civilian population, local and tourists as well. At the contrary, it creates fear, frustration and bad feelings towards them.

r. It is not clear if infiltration is going up or down but in fact it is not that important to know this: there are enough militants, having enough equipment to keep the pot boiling. They can come and go as they like. They can come across the LoC, via Nepal, via Bangladesh as it is impossible to seal off completely the long Indian border.

s. The Kashmiris are in general happy with the democratic elected Government. Chief Minister Ghulam Nabi Azad and his Ministers are trying to meet their aspirations and expectations and to fulfil the commitments they made. It cannot be overlooked that criticism is there: positive changes are not visible enough and not reaching the Kashmiris. The Government should intensify its efforts to meet the expectations and the wishes of the Kashmiris.

t. Corruption is adding to the misery and sufferings of the common Kashmiri. It has also a destabilising effect on the normal functioning of the civil society. The Kashmiris who have responsible jobs in the police, in the judicial system, in the administration, etc. are supposed to look after the well functioning of the society. By indulging into corruption they are betraying their own compatriots. It is high time that at all levels in J&K State a serious effort is made to tackle corruption. It is too easy to point to the Centre as being the origin of all evils. One should have the courage and the honesty to recognise the shortcomings in the own system and take the necessary steps to redress the situation.

u. The cry for the right of self-determination by some parties in the Valley is supported by Pakistan. However, accession to Pakistan is the only accepted option. Indeed, according to the Azad J&K, Interim Constitution Act, 1974, Par 7. (2): “No person or political party in Azad J&K shall be permitted to propagate against, or take part in activities prejudicial or detrimental to, the ideology of the State’s accession to Pakistan”. This same cry for the right of self-determination is heard in the other regions of J&K, also in the areas under Pakistani administration, but without limitations: all options should be left open, such as accession to India, accession to Pakistan, Azadi (= freedom), total independence, partition.

v. Pakistan has no stand in J&K. Pakistan invaded J&K and is at the origin of the de facto partitioning of the State. As early as 13 August 1948 the UN Commission for India and Pakistan requested Pakistan to withdraw its troops from the State as a pre-condition for organising the plebiscite. The same Commission in its resolution of 5 January 1949 repeated this request. Until this date, Pakistan has not withdrawn its armed forces and consequently the plebiscite has not been held.

This conclusion is confirmed by the ‘Report on Kashmir: present situation and future prospects’ of Rapporteur Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne, Vice Chairperson of the Committee on Foreign Affairs of the European Union, and almost unanimously adopted by the Committee on Foreign Affairs (March 2007) and by the European Parliament. This report reads as follows: ‘Pakistan continues to point to early UN Security Council Resolutions on Kashmir to support its contention that there should be a plebiscite to determine whether a reunited Jammu and Kashmir should ‘join’ India or Pakistan. The report notes, however, that the UN-laid down conditions for such a plebiscite have not been, and can no longer be, met by Pakistan. The situation has moved on’.

The report is in favour of negotiations with the following wording: ‘In conclusion, the report recognises the ancient and unique heritage of the Kashmiri people, and the rapporteur has nothing but praise for their tenacity. After so many decades of conflict and tragedy in this particularly beautiful and historic part of the sub-continent’, it is heartening to see the two great powers, India and Pakistan, coming together with the people of Kashmir and that peaceful solutions are both on the horizon and being implemented, a familiar process which the European Parliament fully supports’.
 
Such reports then will decide the way EU will think about Kashmir in future.

No Always such reports can not be considerd fair and honest.
You will asked me why?
Beacuse of this



REPORT ON THE STUDY TOUR OF BEERSMANS PAUL, PRESIDENT OF THE BELGIAN ASSOCIATION FOR SOLIDARITY WITH J&K TO INDIA AND THE INDIAN J&K STATE FROM 17 JUNE TO 14 JULY 2007

Always i wish before posting you could have read the above mentioned in the same introduction of the report and people behind this report.

Can you expect a fair report from a person who is as per this report, is the

President OF THE BELGIAN ASSOCIATION FOR SOLIDARITY WITH J&K TO INDIA AND THE INDIAN J&K STATE

It clearly shows he is advocating soliderity of J&K (IHK) with India.
 
No Always such reports can not be considerd fair and honest.
You will asked me why?
Beacuse of this
Always i wish before posting you could have read the above mentioned in the same introduction of the report and people behind this report.

Can you expect a fair report from a person who is as per this report, is the

President OF THE BELGIAN ASSOCIATION FOR SOLIDARITY WITH J&K TO INDIA AND THE INDIAN J&K STATE

It clearly shows he is advocating soliderity of J&K (IHK) with India.

I am not taking sides on whether the report is good or bad or biased but the fact that it and the other Baroness study is how EU as a whole will deal on Kashmir and at this moment all reports are moving away from the plebicite issue. Incase the report is garbage feel free to visit the website and trash the author. Incase the report ridiculed India would it become fairer ? I don't know but these are the basis of future EU foreign policy and if Pakistan wants to it must diplomatically and in a transparent way prove these studies are wrong. Since you are a journalist you are well aware of the Baroness EU report and how the Pakistani Orgin MPs in Britain tried to get it scrapped and when that failed they tried to get it ammended. They did succeed but only in small measures.
 
Aims of our Association
BELGIAN ASSOCIATION FOR SOLIDARITY WITH JAMMU AND KASHMIR



Office: Middenheide 126
B 9120 BEVEREN
BELGIUM

Telephone and Fax: 00 32 / (0)3 / 775 26 61
e-mail: info@basjak.org
www:Belgian Association for Solidarity with Jammu And Kashmir



The "BELGIAN ASSOCIATION FOR SOLIDARITY WITH JAMMU AND KASHMIR" (BASJAK) is an association of people who are worried about the fate of JAMMU AND KASHMIR and its population and who want to contribute their part, though it be ever so modest, to set a step closer to a solution, to a lasting peace in this part of the world.

The "BELGIAN ASSOCIATION FOR SOLIDARITY WITH JAMMU AND KASHMIR" is a totally independent association without any political, religious, ideological and phliosophical link, whatsoever.

The "BELGIAN ASSOCIATION FOR SOLIDARITY WITH JAMMU AND KASHMIR" is deploying following activities to achieve its above mentioned aims:
Making studies on JAMMU AND KASHMIR;
Following the situation there in the national and international media (press, radio, television);
Informing the national and international media on the historical background of the conflict and on its evolution;
Giving lectures and participating in debates on JAMMU AND KASHMIR, where appropriate;
Co-operating and exchanging ideas and documentation with other associations and organizations, national and international as well, which are active in the field of studying conflicts in the world, of human rights, of peace - problems, .....
Laying contacts, including making studytours on the spot, with all parties involved in this conflict, whatever side it may be, to have a better, more complete and deeper understanding of the conflict in order to fulfli the above mentioned activities with a better knowledge.

The office of "THE BELGIAN ASSOCIATION FOR SOLIDARITY WITH JAMMU AND KASHMIR" is located on the above mentioned address and can be reached there by telephone, fax mail and e-mail.
 
. Since you are a journalist you are well aware of the Baroness EU report and how the Pakistani Orgin MPs in Britain tried to get it scrapped and when that failed they tried to get it ammended. They did succeed but only in small measures.

I do not care nor i consider something done by these people who are not even aware of the plight of Kashmiris and their struggle.

Who cares what EU wants. And who had given right to EU to decide on behalf of Kashmiris without consulting them what they want?

Thirdly its not the point what EU wants but unless the people of Kashmir want.
Even if the report by Baroness is considred ( it has been debadted in detail earlier by variouse quarters) unless you include Kashmiris who are the real party to this conflict, you can not term it as final solution.

As far Pakistan is concerned we had gone too far for offering everything even Musharraf had said we are agree to give the same choice to Azad Kashmir.

Now what else anyone wants from us.
The only thing the EU or any other forum should do is to ask india to fulfill her commitment in this regard.

And being British you should be atleast sorry for current state of Kashmir and Kashmiris as it was Britain that had delebretly left the partition agenda unfulfilled to make Kashmir a Buffer Zone between the two Nation.
 
Dear Jana,

You are missing my points and frankly if I speak to an Indian I will get a smiliar post as yours and he will only interchange the words Pakistan with India and vice versa.

What I am trying to convey is that EU (after the ratification of the constitution) will be the most dominant force after USA and USSR. We will have only one EU embassy in Pakistan instead of the individual UK, French etc embassies as the present.

USA has washed its hands of Kashmir, China has remained silent and USSR and now EU have become pro India and have said that the plebicite is irrelavent. So either the Indians are doing a damn good job of fooling the EU or things are improving in Kashmir. I have no choice but to go with EU reports as my basis of information.

Best Regards
 
I
And being British you should be atleast sorry for current state of Kashmir and Kashmiris as it was Britain that had delebretly left the partition agenda unfulfilled to make Kashmir a Buffer Zone between the two Nation.

Okay maybe my ancestors were fools but why blame the white man 60 years later. After all you and India could have sat like brothers and sorted it out among yourselves long time ago ?
 
1. Born Berchem, Antwerp (Belgium), 27 March 1943.

2. From 1963 till 1994 Cavalry-Officer (Armoured Corps) of the Royal Belgian Armed Forces:

1964 till 1978 stationed in Germany (Belgian Forces in Germany);
1978 - 1979 UN-Observer in Jammu and Kashmir (UNMOGIP, United Nations Military Observer Group in India and Pakistan);
1979 - 1991: General Headquarters Royal Belgian Armed Forces;
1991 - 1992: Observer in Yugoslavia (ECMM, European Community Monitor Mission);
1992 - 1994: General Headquarters Royal Belgian Armed Forces.
3. Retired with the rank of Captain-Commander on 1 April 1994.

You must also explain to me why you feel he is on the Indian Payroll. He seems to be well respected by the UN Human Rights Commission.
 
Okay maybe my ancestors were fools but why blame the white man 60 years later. After all you and India could have sat like brothers and sorted it out among yourselves long time ago ?


:) my dear always your ancestors were not fool rather they were very clever to leave the partition agenda uncomplete keepin in mind the longstanding stretegy reagarding arms sale (now its another matter that US had taken lead and UK is far behind) and using the location of Kashmir in future.

Your querry why we had not succeeded in solving the issue, well you can not solve the issue unless all the parties to the conflict are not sincer. As i told earlier we had even went to the extend to even bring our side Azad Kashmir to plebaside now that is the limite of offering so much.
The Kashmiris want freedom.

Its very unfortuante the the western powers and EU like blocks have taken sides in the past without considering wishes of the Kashmiries.
It is also very intersting as to why EU has become so intrested to solve this issue after 60 years of damage done to the conflict by these very blocks.
 
Kashmir was independent. Pakistan tried to occupy it by force and now they are talking about independent Kashmir.
:crazy:


Who cares what EU wants. And who had given right to EU to decide on behalf of Kashmiris without consulting them what they want?

Who gave the right to Pakistan to decide about what Kahmiris want? If Kashmiris want freedom, then Kashmiris themselves should deal with India. What is the role of Pakistan here? If it is a occupied territory, then its the problem of the Kashmiris and Indians. Just get your *** out of Pakistan occupies Kashmir and let them deal with India themselves. If the two parties can't solve the issue, then there is UN.

As far Pakistan is concerned we had gone too far for offering everything even Musharraf had said we are agree to give the same choice to Azad Kashmir.

Too far? How? If some solution to be applied in Indian Kashmir, then same goes to the Pakistan occupied Kashmir. How come it a concession?

And being British you should be atleast sorry for current state of Kashmir and Kashmiris as it was Britain that had delebretly left the partition agenda unfulfilled to make Kashmir a Buffer Zone between the two Nation.

Why to blame them when the mess is created by Pakistan? Kashmir decided to remain independent. Pakistan created this mess by trying to occupy it.


Its very unfortuante the the western powers and EU like blocks have taken sides in the past without considering wishes of the Kashmiries.
It is also very intersting as to why EU has become so intrested to solve this issue after 60 years of damage done to the conflict by these very blocks.

If they say something against India, then they will become neutral?
 
Kashmir was independent. Pakistan tried to occupy it by force and now they are talking about independent Kashmir.
:crazy:?

:cheesy:Kashmir was independent ????
than howcome India is occupting it ?




[Who gave the right to Pakistan to decide about what Kahmiris want? If Kashmiris want freedom, then Kashmiris themselves should deal with India. What is the role of Pakistan here? If it is a occupied territory, then its the problem of the Kashmiris and Indians. Just get your *** out of Pakistan occupies Kashmir and let them deal with India themselves. If the two parties can't solve the issue, then there is UN.?

:rofl::rofl: yeh it is the problem of India that is why Indian Army is killing Kashmiris daily in fake encounters.
Secondly as you said Kashmir was Independent than how come it is the problem of India isnt it that India is occupying it.
And BTW we are saying what the Kashmiris are saying. We are not forcing them to join us.



Too far? How? If some solution to be applied in Indian Kashmir, then same goes to the Pakistan occupied Kashmir. How come it a concession??

We are ready to apply that solution its you Indians who have no guts to accept their brutalities and reality of the issue.



Why to blame them when the mess is created by Pakistan? Kashmir decided to remain independent. Pakistan created this mess by trying to occupy it.?

Yes Kashmir decieded to remain independent NOt Under Thousands of Indian Millitary boots.


If they say something against India, then they will become neutral?

there is alot to say againt India beacause daily brutalities are committed against Kashmiris. But lets put that aside for a minute.
It is not the point whome they are saying anything against anyone.
The point instead of accusing one party they should only work for resolving the issue according to wished of KASHMIRIS ONLY.
They should set aside what India or Pakistan want.
The point should be what Kashmiris want. If they want to be Independent of influence from India and Pakistan, they should be allowed. That would be nuterality.
 
What I am trying to convey is that EU (after the ratification of the constitution) will be the most dominant force after USA and USSR. We will have only one EU embassy in Pakistan instead of the individual UK, French etc embassies as the present.

USA has washed its hands of Kashmir, China has remained silent and USSR and now EU have become pro India and have said that the plebicite is irrelavent. So either the Indians are doing a damn good job of fooling the EU or things are improving in Kashmir. I have no choice but to go with EU reports as my basis of information.

I am not sure what exactly you are trying to suggest - that the EU "reports" now supersede the UN resolutions, initiated on India's request? If so, why? Did either country choose the EU to play the role of a neutral arbiter? So what legal relevance does any report from them have?

It could be considered a loss from the propoganda and PR POV, for Pakistan, but what the EU, China and USA think about the "status" of the territory is irrelevant, so long as they consider it "disputed". Kashmir is only going to be resolved when the Indians and Pakistanis agree to a solution, the rest is just mind games.
 

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