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Germany to Send Tanks to Russian Border

echo 1

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Lmfao
Germany aint no superpower anymore.

Just hoping it doesnt get its *** kicked again.
 
Its disturbing, I don't think they realize the full effects of what Russia can bring to that boarder. I forget where but there was a high level US commander in a live interview said that Russia has the ability to mobilize some 200,000 troops in ~18hr (dont quote me on exact numbers but is was from last month). On top of that there ability to move troops within their own boarders is documented in sooo many videos. They are highly efficient and very capable.
Dont get me wrong NATO has its own tricks when it comes to sea to land war fair. USA leads the way in this department. Having LCACs and other anphibious war fair capabilities that only a handful of countries can match(all of whom are NATO allies) This is serious and the provocation of Russia will not get anyone anywhere. We will have the same results as we did from back in WW II no real winners and entire countries left in shambles. The only increase will be the amount of civilian deaths
 
Your link is messed up.
The origin is Russian state supported media RT News

And its fearmongering about 'Germany' ...

Reminder: the Soviet Union gave up its presence in Eastern European countries, which are indepent and can therefor choose their own course.

It is not just Germany or even mostly Germany

"A NATO battalion under German command will be stationed in Lithuania In February. The battalion’s personnel will amount to 1,000 soldiers, with from 450 to 650 of them coming from Germany and the rest being deployed by France, Belgium and Croatia.

According to the German daily Der Tagesspiegel daily, this will be an autonomous combat-ready unit equipped with tanks and armored vehicles that will also have snipers, engineering troops, military medics and even military police. The battalion will be fully operational starting from June 2017, German media reported.

The decision to send tanks alongside with the infantry to Lithuania should “send a clear signal” that Germany takes security concerns of the eastern NATO members “seriously,” von der Leyen said during the ministers’ meeting in Brussels.
https://www.rt.com/news/364477-germany-tanks-russian-border/

Britain to send hundreds more troops to Russia border as Cold War tension escalates across Europe
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...s-estonia-troop-deployment-on-russias-border/

And well, YEAH, if you deploy nuclear capable ballistic missiles and S-400 SAMs and troops to Kaliningrad oblast, which is essentially a piece of non-Russian real estate that Russia hangs onto in the aftermath of the Soviet Union's collapse (and that no one has asked Russia to relinquish by the way), you can indeed expect a response.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...missiles-Kaliningrad-UK-deploys-troops-Poland

kaliningrad-map.jpg


And it is not like Russia has no beefed up its troops in Kaliningrad last summer, or hasn't put it's tanks on other countries' borders....
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ace-off-vladimir-putin-military-a7121186.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...y-buildup-in-the-baltic-stokes-invasion-fears

S-400 in Kaliningrad (400km)
tody8gdza4fvdy06e2o6.jpg


Iskander in Kaliningrad

500km
ZGDmZla.png


500km and 700km
Baltic_Sea_map.png


Or flown dangerous patterns on NATO ships in international waters. Or aircraft in international air space.

http://www.***************/germany-to-send-tanks-to-russian-border-68511/
Just found this on www.***************. I have to say I'm pretty disappointed that Germany would try to provoke Russia like this. This puts Lithuania at serious risk by doing so. It makes no sense, last time a country took suck a step did not end well for them. It would have been simpler to send troops with ATGMs at least this way its more discrete
In this case, NATO doesn't want to be discrete.
 
Unfortunately Penguin you are right about NATO not wanting to be discrete. NATO is flexing its muscles to the point where their veins are about to pop out. The way things are going we are looking at the next Cold War.

I was just reading that British article yesterday, and again they are just asking for trouble. Russia has never been one to start trouble (post USSR) but they can sure as heck end it if they really wanted to. Lets hope the Russian Bear keeps a defensive posture and NATO withdraws.

Please correct me if Im wrong, but Russia has never had an offensive doctrine to begin with. Its always been about defense. This includes naval power. 1 carrier and all Su-33 armed with air-to-air missiles, what does that tell you? If you look and any other country with a carrier armed for multi-mission war fair air-to-air as well as air-to-ground.
 
Unfortunately Penguin you are right about NATO not wanting to be discrete. NATO is flexing its muscles to the point where their veins are about to pop out. The way things are going we are looking at the next Cold War.

I was just reading that British article yesterday, and again they are just asking for trouble. Russia has never been one to start trouble (post USSR) but they can sure as heck end it if they really wanted to. Lets hope the Russian Bear keeps a defensive posture and NATO withdraws.

Please correct me if Im wrong, but Russia has never had an offensive doctrine to begin with. Its always been about defense. This includes naval power. 1 carrier and all Su-33 armed with air-to-air missiles, what does that tell you? If you look and any other country with a carrier armed for multi-mission war fair air-to-air as well as air-to-ground.
Kindly explain how NATO has been causing trouble in the EUropean context? Countries ASKED to join EU and NATO. They were not coerced to do so. And there are no military challenges against Russia on its 'Western front' (there is absolutly zero change of any NATO infringement onto Russian or Russian held territory here. We in Europe actually remember how Napoleon and Hitler fared in the East).

There is nothing for NATO or EU to withdraw from. Russia withdrew from Eastern Europe in the 1990s upon the collapse of the Soviet Union. Its WP satellite states became independent. They opted to link up with EU and NATO. I'm sure that hurts for the Russians. However, as part of said alliances, these states can ask for assistance when they feel threatened in the aftermath of e.g. Russian actions in Crimea and Ukrainean border areas. No one on the NATO side is moving into Belarus and Ukraine. However, if those countries decide they want to ally themselves with NATO, that is their business. It is those countries that have to weigh the pro's and con's of that in terms of their own best interest.
 
There is nothing for NATO or EU to withdraw from. Russia withdrew from Eastern Europe in the 1990s upon the collapse of the Soviet Union. Its WP satellite states became independent. They opted to link up with EU and NATO. I'm sure that hurts for the Russians. However, as part of said alliances, these states can ask for assistance when they feel threatened in the aftermath of e.g. Russian actions in Crimea and Ukrainean border areas. No one on the NATO side is moving into Belarus and Ukraine. However, if those countries decide they want to ally themselves with NATO, that is their business. It is those countries that have to weigh the pro's and con's of that in terms of their own best interest.[/QUOTE]

What I am referring to is NATO sending troops and armor into Lithuania and Estonia. Is it really necessary to do so? Maybe, but do they need to send in an armored division? In my opinion no. And please forgive me if it seems like Im pro-Russian, but from my prospective its seems that NATO is the one being the aggressor. Setting up bases, air-defense radars and missiles, now more troops and armor. They are piratically surrounding Russia. Did the Baltic States request NATO? Like you said Penguin they might have requested assistance, because they feel threatened. As far as I know they did not I could be wrong. If they did, then completely different story. From my understanding the only country that I am aware of of that has requested permanent NATO presence is Poland.
 
You confuse NATO with the US. It is not at all a given that non-US Nato members have free or unlimited access to US bases around the globe at any given time, or all the time. Not all US bases are allocated to NATO.
upload_2016-11-3_11-52-20.jpeg


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_military_installations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Military_installations_of_NATO
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:NATO_installations_by_country

Besides, it is irrelevant in relation to Kalingrad Oblast, which is a Cold War relic and not the historically core country called Russia.

Meanwhile,...
NATO_partnerships.jpg

"Oh, look, Russia is affiliated with NATO"
 
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Penguin sir, I am basing my assessment on what I think is happening, its my opinion and my assessment. If you think other wise, then who am I to say anything. But those posters are very confusing "Russia wants war, look how close they put their country to our military bases"...I personally would not give this one any credibility, just saying.
 
What I am referring to is NATO sending troops and armor into Lithuania and Estonia. Is it really necessary to do so? Maybe, but do they need to send in an armored division? In my opinion no. And please forgive me if it seems like Im pro-Russian, but from my prospective its seems that NATO is the one being the aggressor. Setting up bases, air-defense radars and missiles, now more troops and armor. They are piratically surrounding Russia. Did the Baltic States request NATO? Like you said Penguin they might have requested assistance, because they feel threatened. As far as I know they did not I could be wrong. If they did, then completely different story. From my understanding the only country that I am aware of of that has requested permanent NATO presence is Poland.
Battallion! Not division.

A division is a large military unit or formation, usually consisting of between 10,000 and 20,000 soldiers. In most armies, a division is composed of several regiments or brigades . A brigade is a major tactical military formation that is typically composed of three to six battalions plus supporting elements.Typically a battalion consists of 300 to 800 soldiers and is divided into a number of companies. A company is a military unit, typically consisting of 80–250 soldiers. Most companies are formed of three to six platoons

Nato is not 'setting up bases'. That is not how it works.

With the collaps of the Soviet Union, Russian/Soviet forces left, allowing these countries to be independent once more again. Lithuania, Estonia etc as independent countries have elected to join NATO and become NATO members.

Accession to the alliance is governed with individual Membership Action Plans, and requires approval by each current member. A country's participation in MAP entails the annual presentation of reports concerning its progress on five different measures:
  • Willingness to settle international, ethnic or external territorial disputes by peaceful means, commitment to the rule of law and human rights, and democratic control of armed forces
  • Ability to contribute to the organization's defence and missions
  • Devotion of sufficient resources to armed forces to be able to meet the commitments of membership
  • Security of sensitive information, and safeguards ensuring it
  • Compatibility of domestic legislation with NATO cooperation
To a greater or lesser extent, NATO members make some of their existing military infrastructure available to thd alliance as well as a portion of their military forces.

NATO cannot just move troops from one country into the next. It always needs the approval if not explicit invitation of the NATO member that is the host nation.

Example:

The Baltic air-policing mission is a NATO air defence Quick Reaction Alert (QRA) in order to guard the airspace over the three Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania.

In March 2004, Lithuania became a full member of the NATO. Since then, fighter jets of NATO members are deployed in Zokniai airport and provide safety for the Baltic airspace. This is because Lithuania's best combat aircraft is the Czech Aero L-39 subsonic light attack airplane. Lithuania has 1 such jet operational.

Since March 2004, when the Baltic states joined NATO, fighter jets of NATO members have been deployed on a rotational basis for the Baltic Air Policing mission at Šiauliai Airport in Lithuania to guard the Baltic airspace. Latvia's air force only has 4 transport helicopters.

Likewise, the Estonia air force main combat unit consists of 2 Aero L-39

By becoming nato members, they can have other nato countries fly their aircraft in defence of of these three state's airspace, while these three state develop their own military (they are often stuck with old Soviet stuff, if having stuff at all)

I can go down the list of former-WP nations in Eastern Europe if you like. But it is all pretty similar.

Should you wish to find out how the alliance actually work, visit
http://www.nato.int/docu/Review/2016/Also-in-2016/security-baltic-defense-nato/EN/index.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Wales_summit

AND YEAH, THE STATES REQUESTED NATO

Lithuania: NATO Keeps Mum On 'Baltic Brigade' Request
By: Agence France-Presse, July 1, 2015 (Photo Credit: Sgt. James Avery/US Army)

VILNIUS, Lithuania — NATO has vowed to hold "continuous" military exercises in Eastern Europe to deter Russia but has yet to respond to a request by Baltic states for a permanent brigade, Lithuania said Wednesday.

In May, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia formally asked NATO's top commander to deploy a "permanent rotational" battalion-sized unit in each country amid concerns triggered by Russia's military resurgence.
http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...to-keeps-mum-baltic-brigade-request/29595545/

Defense chiefs request permanent NATO presence in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania
5/14/2015 4:54 PM




The three Baltic countries are planning to ask for the permanent presence of NATO troops on their soil, Capt. Mindaugas Neimontas, spokesman for Lithuania's chief of defense, told Reuters on Thursday. The troops would serve as further deterrent against Russia, which has been conducting an increasing number of military drills in the region.


According to Neimontas, the Baltic states will ask for 700-800 men units to be permanently stationed in each country on a rotational basis.


Poland too is considering a similar request, although General Stanislaw Koziej, head of the National Security Bureau, told Reuters that Warsaw's position could change before the summit – for example, in the unlikely event that Russia were to comply with the Minsk peace agreement for eastern Ukraine.



Estonian Defense Forces spokesman Roland Murof told uudised.err.ee that Estonia, in cooperation with Latvia and Lithuania, is in the course of preparing a request for more NATO troops in the region.



"It's important to note that while the focus is primarily on the infantry, we are also negotiating air and naval capacities," Murof said. "Russia sees NATO as its main nemesis and this has put the Baltic countries on the front line, so to say. Hence, NATO's deterrence needs to involve real military presence and advance presence of the equipment."



The Baltic countries currently host NATO's air policing mission and a rotating unit of 150 US troops each. The latter are mainly involved in various drills and training exercises, including Estonia's largest ever mobilization exercise Hedgehog (Siil) that concludes this week.



According to Murof, the exercise proved that Estonia is capable of fending off first attacks to its sovereignty, but the events in Ukraine show that the presence of the Allies is vital to ensuring effective deterrence and a swift reaction.
http://news.err.ee/v/news/Internati...ent-nato-presence-in-estonia-latvia-lithuania


On May 27, Latvian prime minister Laimota Straujuma confirmed Latvia’s Cabinet of Ministers has approved a request to ensure a permanent NATO military presence in the country.

In addition to Latvia, generals from Lithuania and Estonia will also request NATO deploys several thousand ground troops in their countries to act as a deterrent to increasing aggression from the Kremlin.

"We are seeking a brigade-size unit so that every Baltic nation would have a battalion," said Lithuanian military spokesman Captain Mindaugas Neimontas.
http://www.baltictimes.com/cabinet_...equest_for_permanent_nato_presence_in_latvia/

The US Air Force and the Bulgarian Air Force will jointly conduct air policing to protect Bulgarian airspace starting on 9 September 2016. Two US F-15 fighter jets will join Bulgaria’s MIG-29s for a week on this mission, which is part of NATO’s enhanced air policing measures for eastern Allies.

Until now, air policing over Bulgaria has been conducted by national means. The enhanced air policing measures for Bulgaria are being launched by NATO for the first time, in response to a request by the Bulgarian authorities.
http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_134483.htm

The United States will pre-position tanks, artillery and other military equipment in six CEE states including Romania. The news comes as the Romanian Parliament also approved on Tuesday a request by President Klaus Iohannis to allow the establishment of a NATO Force Integration Unit and a Multinational Commandment on Romanian territory. US Secretary of Defense Ash Carter announced in Estonia on Tuesday and Romania agreed, along with Poland, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia to host US military equipment.
http://lbhn-1602388572.eu-west-1.elb.amazonaws.com/stire/20252042
 

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