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Eurojet pips GE in LCA engine bid

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Europe has an edge over the US in the tightly-fought contest to sell India a next-generation engine for the homegrown Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA). Informed sources have told Business Standard that when the bids were opened last week, European consortium Eurojet bid $666 million for 99 EJ200 engines, against US rival General Electric, which quoted $822 million.

Both engines had been earlier adjudged technically suitable to power the Tejas Mark-II. Therefore, according to the ministry of defence’s procurement rules, the vendor offering the lower price is to be handed the contract.

But the champagne corks aren’t popping yet at Eurojet. Both engine-makers have been asked for certain clarifications by Wednesday, and senior Eurojet executives are worried that Washington could pressure New Delhi to opt for the US engine in the interregnum.

At stake here is far more than a few hundred million dollars. Industry experts say India’s choice of engine for the Tejas would significantly shape the choice of a medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA), an $11-billion contract for which the Indian Air Force is evaluating six fighters. Of these, the Eurofighter has twin EJ-200 engines, while GE F-414 engines power the US-built F/A-18 and Sweden’s Gripen NG fighters.

Says Air Vice Marshall (Retd) Kapil Kak of the Centre for Air Power Studies, the IAF’s official think tank, “It is as clear as daylight. Selecting the EJ200 for the Tejas would boost the Eurofighter’s prospects in the MMRCA contest.”

“Its engines, which form about 15-20 per cent of the cost of a modern fighter, would be already manufactured in India for the Tejas. For the same reason, rejecting the GE F-414 would diminish the chances of the two fighters that fly with that engine,” he added.

In its tender for the Tejas engine, the defence ministry has specified that only ten engines could be built abroad. All subsequent engines must be built in India, with the vendor transferring technology for their manufacture. If the EJ200 were built in India for the Tejas, Eurofighter would benefit from a fully amortised engine line and also be entitled to offset credits for the ‘made-in-India’ Eurofighter EJ200 engines. This would lower the price of the Eurofighter — a huge advantage for an aircraft regarded as high performance, but expensive. Logistically, too, the IAF would prefer an MMRCA with engines that were already in its inventory.

Selection of the GE F-414 engine, on the other hand, would provide all these advantages to the vendors of the F/A-18 and the Gripen NG fighters. This is a key reason why Eurojet and GE have conducted their Tejas engine campaign so competitively.

Furthermore, the order for 99 engines for the Tejas Mark-II is just a foot in the door to the Indian market. Given that each fighter goes through two to three engines during its operational lifetime, the four to five planned squadrons (84-105 fighters) of the Tejas Mark-II would actually need 200-300 new engines. The 126 MMRCAs could use several hundred more.

Business Standard had earlier reported on the European aerospace industry’s plan to enhance its presence in India’s military programmes through Eurofighter and the MMRCA contest. The first move by EADS was to provide consultancy to accelerate flight-testing of the Tejas; now comes the second move: bidding aggressively to win the Tejas engine contract.

Defence ministry sources have expressed surprise that Eurojet bid 20 per cent cheaper than rival General Electric, which is widely regarded as a cost-effective manufacturer. In fact, conversations with EADS executives reveal that this is a well-considered business strategy.

Sources in the Aeronautical Development Agency confirm that both GE and Eurojet engines fully met the technical requirements to power the Tejas Mark-II. The EJ200 — which IAF favours — is the more modern, lighter and flexible engine with greater potential for growth. The GE F-414 is heavier, but provides a little more power.

Eurojet pips GE in LCA engine bid
 
EJ2000

EJ200&



GE-F414

F414.JPG
 
Hmmm

Basically this means Rafale (Dessault) has no chance for the MMRCA !

looking at the investment charts it will be stupid to choose any thing but EF / F-18 now and
to a lower probability Gripen.

Which in turns means Dessault loosing UAE, and now India .... WoW !
 
Hmmm

Basically this means Rafale (Dessault) has no chance for the MMRCA !

looking at the investment charts it will be stupid to choose any thing but EF / F-18 now and
to a lower probability Gripen.

Which in turns means Dessault loosing UAE, and now India .... WoW !

What has the Engine In LCA Got to do with MMRCA??? There were Only two countries Participating In the LCA Engine Tender... And The best Gets the Chance, how does this Relate to Other On going deals???
 
Powering LCA Mk-2: GE F-414 vs EJ-200; talks shifts to Delhi; decision soon
Tarmak007 -- An Indian Defence blog with a difference: Powering LCA Mk-2: GE F-414 vs EJ-200; talks shifts to Delhi; decision soon
After months of extended analysis, comparison studies, and calculations, the hunt for a suitable engine for Tejas Mk-II seems to have reached the final phase. The contenders -- GE F-414 and EJ-200 -- are equally confident that they would make it to India's Tejas.
MoD sources confirm that the negotiations have now shifted to Delhi (from Bangalore) and there are couple of issues need to be sorted out. All top officials associated with the project have now reached Delhi on Sunday night and the next two days might be crucial. The Tejas is currently undergoing sea-trials in Goa.
A section of Indian media have been reporting for the last one month that EJ-200 is/will be the likely choice, MoD sources refuse to say anything official yet. "We are continuing the talks from today," an official said.
Stay tuned for the latest.






talks shifting to Delhi!!!!!!!!!, i would still not consider GE out yet.....
 
What has the Engine In LCA Got to do with MMRCA??? There were Only two countries Participating In the LCA Engine Tender... And The best Gets the Chance, how does this Relate to Other On going deals???

It does
Coz only 10 engines will be manufactured abroad & rest in india with TOT
Also the mmrca jet will be manufactured in india
so if they select the same engine for lca & mmrca it will be easy to absorb technologies & less burden for hal or whoever manufactures them & maybe reduce costs:azn:
 
None taken :woot: and no.. I won't question you on the coordinates of the JF17 designs/parts either, however it was indeed the correct decision to unlink the Kaveri and the LCA. If that wasn't done the LCA would still be what you guys like to call it "The Paper Plane".

For all the beautiful critique our plane has been showered with it continues to emerge and grow. The engine of course will play a vital role in its emergence as a well rounded fighter and the above article you just read will put the LCA in a different league from"some" other fighters.

BTW isn't "Tejas" such an apt name? It continues to radiate away all the trash that is thrown on it :tup:




Don't bring JF-17 into this, we have another thread for that.


The low numbers of LCA that IAF is ordering, Buying SU30s and MMRCA. Upgrading MIG 29 and Mirage 2000, really speaks of how well the LCA is and how homegrown is.
 
Don't bring JF-17 into this, we have another thread for that.


The low numbers of LCA that IAF is ordering, Buying SU30s and MMRCA. Upgrading MIG 29 and Mirage 2000, really speaks of how well the LCA is and how homegrown is.

Its all about the ability to procure. Due to the economic upswing in India, we have the money to invest in procuring best of breed planes like Su 30 and the MRCA while LCA matures. Unlike Pakistan, India is not having to look at inexpensive planes like JF-17 to replace the aging component of its fighter fleet.

About LCA being local, well, Gripen uses the same engine that LCA Mk II might end up using. Is that plane not Swedish?
 
Don't bring JF-17 into this, we have another thread for that.


The low numbers of LCA that IAF is ordering, Buying SU30s and MMRCA. Upgrading MIG 29 and Mirage 2000, really speaks of how well the LCA is and how homegrown is.

Write and ask these question in the apt thread and refrain from derailing the thread...Now open your blocke valves of your mind and listen to this..
Tejas in its current avatar is very sound and currently among the top line fighters if you talk about the Avionics {i will inform you about it once you ask it in the appropiate thread):cheers:
but because as there have not been many drastic structural changes its capability is restricted in terms of the weapons load carrying,its range and other jazz stuff:lol:
40 Tejas MKI have ben order and the next order will come in form Tejas mkii i hope iam clear to you apart from that guys plzz dnt compare Tejas to Thunder.....its not required Tejas has grown and its Naval version tells all about it...:smitten:
 
Powering LCA Mk-2: GE F-414 vs EJ-200; talks shifts to Delhi; decision soon
Tarmak007 -- An Indian Defence blog with a difference: Powering LCA Mk-2: GE F-414 vs EJ-200; talks shifts to Delhi; decision soon
After months of extended analysis, comparison studies, and calculations, the hunt for a suitable engine for Tejas Mk-II seems to have reached the final phase. The contenders -- GE F-414 and EJ-200 -- are equally confident that they would make it to India's Tejas.
MoD sources confirm that the negotiations have now shifted to Delhi (from Bangalore) and there are couple of issues need to be sorted out. All top officials associated with the project have now reached Delhi on Sunday night and the next two days might be crucial. The Tejas is currently undergoing sea-trials in Goa.
A section of Indian media have been reporting for the last one month that EJ-200 is/will be the likely choice, MoD sources refuse to say anything official yet. "We are continuing the talks from today," an official said.
Stay tuned for the latest.






talks shifting to Delhi!!!!!!!!!, i would still not consider GE out yet.....

Going for the European engine i the best thing we can do and yes that would help eurofighter in big..we will commiting suicide if bot the engine and the mmrca is american as with sanction we will have almost half of our fleet on ground american tech is good but then there are others with whom we customie our stuff and make it beeter if not good:smitten:
 
Going for the European engine i the best thing we can do and yes that would help eurofighter in big..we will commiting suicide if bot the engine and the mmrca is american as with sanction we will have almost half of our fleet on ground american tech is good but then there are others with whom we customie our stuff and make it beeter if not good:smitten:


Exactly.. USA is not our cup of tea... We should capitalize the European economy which is pity right now. Take there wealthy knowledge with money and develop ourself in future.. We have talents but we didn't have the base to grow... Going with US will keep us in the same place for ever and ever...
 
Livefist - The Best of Indian Defence: BUZZ: Eurojet Throttles Up For Tejas?

There's a lot of buzz over the Tejas Mk-II engine competition, with a flurry of reports suggesting that the Eurojet EJ200 is positioned to win the deal, and not close competitor General Electric with its F-414-400. The connection between the Tejas Mk-2 engine and the MMRCA is inevitable, so first, let's get a couple of things out of the way as far as the Mk-2 question is concerned.

Both the F-414 and EJ200 were equally compliant with the qualitative requirements of the Indian Air Force. Second, despite what either of the companies has said, there's a good deal of modification that both engines will require for integration with the Tejas -- both engines are dimensionally different too, with one short and stubby and the other longer and more slender.

Both engine makers promise that they can modify their engines for the Tejas and complete certification in two years or less from the time of contract signing. For example, when I visited Eurojet headquarters near Munich in January, the company's managing director Hartmut Tenter said, "There will be some changes to the mounting assembly, a different hydraulic pump and an additional generator pack. In addition, engine interfaces might' need changes depending on how the LCA is configured. But we are confident of having a fully certified engine ready in less than two years."

Both engine houses have been known to claim that the Tejas airframe will require no airframe changes for the new engine. Untrue. The Indian Air Force and HAL have both confirmed that the selection of either of the two engines will mean minor -- but not negligible -- changes to intake architecture, aft fuselage and engine interface structures on the Tejas airframe. How long that will take is a good question.

According to sources, GE's pitch -- technology and offsets aside -- has been underscored by the experience of the F-404, variants of which currently power the Tejas Mk-1. The company has also thought of the F-414 for the Tejas well before it was officially decided that a new engine would power the Mk-2. Eurojet, on the other hand, has pitched the EJ200 with the very tempting notion of a dedicated EJ200 global production line in India, along with true qualitative technology transfer, that will include single crystal technology to HAL and GTRE.

But none of this may actually matter now, since both engines have performed well and met all or at least most requirements, and have an approximately equal level of compliance.
 
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