What's new

Does secularization modernize societies? (1)

Saleem

FULL MEMBER
Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
1,460
Reaction score
1
These days, when there are attempts being made to draft a new constitution for Turkey, there are not enough public debates regarding the most fundamental of issues. Certain segments of society, agencies and groups have announced their views regarding the new constitution, but it is still unclear on which points there have been compromises and agreements and which points remain issues of conflict. There is also no clarity on how these points of compromise or conflict will be reflected in the new constitution.

Secularism is one of the main points of contention. There is widespread confusion regarding this issue and it remains a significant point of dispute. I need to stress that secularism does not always translate into freedom of religion and choice. Let alone protecting religion, it actually imposes restrictions on it. Thanks to “modernity,” based on the ideals of the Age of Enlightenment and its basic presumptions, modern man found the right in himself, probably for the first time in history, to meddle in religion. The heyday of the Age of Enlightenment provides concrete examples of this. The French style of secularism, which Turkey uses as a reference, is still ill with this desire to meddle in religion. This is why France still intervenes in such affairs as women's attire, including headscarves, veils and burkas, and Germany still makes the issue of halal food a matter of contention.

This meddling in religious life through politics in Turkey is still rampant and this policy is hailed by some men of science, intellectuals and columnists. This policy tops a list of issues that have served as a source of trouble for the Justice and Development Party (AK Party) in its 10 years in power. In recent years, for example, prominent writer Serdar Turgut, addressing people who had complained about the restrictions on the freedom of religion and conscience, wrote in his column in the Hürriyet daily that they have “no remedy other than to find another religion.”

The fact that the idea or need for modernization came about from a choice by the Ottoman state has not only given the state and state forces an upper hand but also led to the infringement on a fundamental democratic right, that is to say, on taking into consideration the views of the people. In the special philosophical and political atmosphere of the 19th century, modernization was a need, and it still meets some needs today, but this is because the state finds it appropriate this way. In the Ottoman Empire, modernization was the choice of the palace; it later became the choice of the state. In Muslim societies, modernization has never taken place with the approval or will of the people.

Historical events doubtlessly played a great role in the formation of the conceptual framework called modernization. The replacement of the concept of Shariah with ideology and of the sultan with the state represents a deep fracture in the Turkish political culture and political experience. Secularism, modernization and the tension between the state and society stem from this.

Does secularization modernize societies? (1)
 
There is no true secularization in Turkey, true secularization exists in western nations such as Canada etc with little or no interference of politics in public lifestyle. Anyone should be free to practice and believe whatever the hell they want, but they should not be allowed to reject or disapprove of the beliefs and lifestyles of others OR to impose their own view, either through verbal or physical force - a thing, which is rampant in all muslim societies. That should be the main aim of secularizing any society or nation because it promotes peace and harmony and that inturn helps in development of a nation.

Just imagine if Pakistani society was fully secularized, there won't be any TTP threat to the country, there won't be bullshit freaking chopping of heads of others just because they don't have same-size beards, there won't be any suicide bombings in mosques of different sects. A truely secular society is the only way to progress forward.

Turkey has a dummy version of secularization which only is based on religion-bashing. But, they have their own reasons to have a hateful attitude, considering the fact that how religious elite kept turkey in dark ages in past 2 centuries and was the cause of downfall of ottoman empire. They are just probably afraid of letting loose the religious elite again. But past is gone, to become truely modern, you need pure form of secularism.
 
They should go for a referendum. If turkish people throw out secularism then kemalist & their zionist master have no right to whine anymore as per democratic ideals. Off course it would be difficult in a place in turkey where a significant portion of the people has been made apostate with the ****** idea of secularism that too by force over the last 70 + years. Attaturk's kelamism fits the refined definition of extremism and intolerance. It was way extreme than even the french one. The most extreme of extremes imaginable.
 
Pakistani jahil qaum...most of my great Pakistani intellectuals cant even grasp the basics of a secular government. Like mardood zalil hamid etc. IF Pakistan had a truly secular government that did not interfere with the beliefs of its citizens and dealt properly with the fraud mullas then we wouldn't have half of the problems we have today with all the sectarian violence. Stupid Western powers supported lanti zia ul haq who lied about holding elections but that momin ka bacha went back on his words like many other momins in Pakistan. He did the most damage to the pluralistic stature of Pakistan. And now Zia ul lanti ki najaiz aulad aka Phelwan shareef has been put on the throne by zia ul lantis other illegitimate children in pak establishment. Pakistan needs someone like Ataturk..
 
800px-Secularmap.PNG


Most of the world applies some form of secularism and most of that is dirt poor. Secularism nor democracy alone can, turn a society's fortunes around, other factors like good governance, stability,robust education etc are more important.

Church of England is the official church of the state.
 
800px-Secularmap.PNG


Most of the world applies some form of secularism and most of that is dirt poor. Secularism nor democracy alone can, turn a society's fortunes around, other factors like good governance, stability,robust education etc are more important.

Church of England is the official church of the state.

Sirjee pehlay eh dasso keh just what is a "modern" society, and what does "modernization" include?
 
Sirjee pehlay eh dasso keh just what is a "modern" society, and what does "modernization" include?

Beer,Booze,Babes,Bars,Bikinis,Burgers,BMWs,Beaches,Brothels,Being able to Bomb other countries and so on.
 
A state is secular - that does not mean all its citizens are secular as well. The Republic of India is secular, but it is also a deeply religious society. Does secularism modernize society? It does but it also often causes friction and fights between the old school and the newer thought processes. Is India more modern than it was in 1947? Yes. Is it more secular? It definitely is.
 
Secularism and Democracy are a state of mind, the way people think and act, not a form of government. We need to promote that state of mind and way of life. One can easily be religious as well as secular and democratic at the same time.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom