DIMDEX-2018. My Visit and Highlights of from There

[amardeep mishra]

One thing I learn from INS Kolkata Visit. Brahmos requires a radar to be fired. They have installed a specific radar with which they calculate Firing solution of Brahmos. I asked several times if Multi functional Radar can do the same thing. Junior officer said It cant. I said what happen if Brahmos radar goes out. He said obviously there will be lot of problem firing it. He didn't explain much. But Multi Functional radar can not fire Brahmos as per INS kolkata.

Hi @Bratva
That is true because, in land version there exists a central command post, that recieves the target information, calculates the trajectories, generates the way points to meet this trajectory and sends this data to individual launchers on a data link.
Here is the pic of the land based system-

On the naval version though, the target information are sent via telemetry as no radar(other than OTRs) can scan the curvature of earth for hundreds of km. The range of Brahmos is practically beyond 600kms as it is based on P-800. The target coordinates are relayed to the ship via telemetry and the MCP of naval brahmos(which is also the part of battle management system of the ship) computes the desired trajectory generating a set of way points that needs to be followed to reach the target. These way points form the reference signal for the outer control loop of the missile system whose job is to control the inner loop variables particularly "rate variables" like p,q,r to meet the way points. This loop generates the desired "rate variables" for the inner loop. The inner loop then works on the desired rates to achieve desired fin deflections. So in simple terms, outer loop takes in way points and yields rate variables, inner loop on the other hand takes in rate variables generated in the previous loop and yields fin deflections.

http://www.larsentoubro.com/heavy-engineering/products-services/defence-aerospace/naval-weapon-systems/missile-launcher-systems/

http://www.brahmos.com/content.php?id=16

 

[Arsalan]

So I just came back home from Day 1 DIMDEX-2018. Quite of revelations, disappointments and People who I wanted to meet remain elusive. I reached when 2 hours were left for closing of day one

Turkish are leading the Biggest contingent with Rokestan, STM, ASELSAN, HAVELSAN, SSM, MKEK

Americans are there with Lockheed, General dynamics.

Chinese are there with China Precision Machinery Import and Export Corporation

British are there

French are there

Australian are there

Russians are there with Rosoboronexport

Let's start with MILGEM. I'll remain vague which vendor I discussed things with but the various teams I discussed with was/is involved in technical discussion in both Agosta Submarine and MilGEM


As per the RFP Pakistan floated for MILGEM SHIP. Pakistan is getting ADA CLASS without any VLS. This is what Pakistan will be getting.

View attachment 458993
The modifications would be Missile Tubes will be replaced with Pakistani specific missile tubes and Pakistan has asked to put Chinese equipment on it . Pakistan has not asked for a helicopter with MILGEM ADA in RFP. Turkish vendor is hoping DEAL will be signed before new elections in Pakistan


First Agosta Submarine upgradation timeline is 36 months is a best case scenario. Any glitches and unexpected integration problems can push the timeline further.

We had a perception Pakistan wanted to Upgrade all 3 submarines Nope, Team involved in Deal told me, Pakistan issued tender for only submarine at that time. Not for all 3 and then issued tender for second submarine just a while ago. There is no tender for 3rd submarine upgradation yet


Havelsan is providing combat management system. I asked specifically if Pakistan can integrate missiles of its own as french CMS could not have allowed Pakistan to do that. Team was very Specific, Despite Havelsan CMS being a proprietary System and We wont allow clients to make its own changes but since Pakistan is an exceptional case and we accomodate them always. So IF Pakistan wants to make change in CMS. Their request going to be approved by Turkish Ministry of defence but HAVELSAN will be the one making changes in CMS

I asked If Pakistan asked for any Missile to be integrated of their own from the GET GO. Team was very specific Pakistan didnot put any Request for this in the RFP for now

Any further queries regards havelsan CMS was asked to be redirected to Havelsan Stall. I'm gonna go there and further enquire about their CMS going into Agosta 90 B upgradation

I met the team who is responsible for ASELPOD. As per them ASELPOD doesnot have Datalink capability like SNIPER XR and in near future there is no plan to add this capability. If this capability gonna be added, it gonna be a hardware specific change and Pakistan PODS can not be upgraded, so Pakistan has to buy that specific version

majority of ASELPOD components are home made but some foriegn components are still there and they doesnot fall under ITAR so Pakistan will not be affected by ITAR sanctions

Turkish Team has successfully integrated ASELPOD on Pakistani jet last year and demonstration was successful and after that they scaled down their presence there as Pakistan is quite capable to undertake integration on rest of the Fighter jets


China Precision Machinery Import and Export Corporation. I went to their stall but due to it was 4.40 PM and they were packing up. Didnt get a chance to ask them properly. But yeah On their Display Boards, There was JF-17 Firing Missile. Mentions of CM-400 AKG, C-802 AKG. They have like one dozen SAMS included LY-80 mentioned on their display board. Tomorrow if i get a chance to visit I'm gonna visit and ask them question


Russian were quite cold. But I went to their stall at 4.50 pm. They said since I'm not a reporter just a visitor, they can't entertain any of my requests but come tomorrow, their media specialist can accommodate my queries


I didnt get time to VISIT MKEK, French, American Stalls which I'll visit tomorrow so throw my any questions if you have any



Pakistan Navy Delegation remain elusive. I was not able to locate Navy mission commander or our defence attache there. At 4:50 PM when I was going out I met Pakistani sailors who said they have come on a different bus and are not with Mission commander and can't tell where there leadership delegation is and I've to search for them separately. Lets see if I'm able to find Our Naval Delegation tomorrow !


highlight of the day, when I passed by pakistani sailors group, one sailor was saying, "Idhar se bhagna mushkil hoga"


As exhibition center is very very large and you have to walk a lot.



@Arsalan @The Deterrent @Quwa @cabatli_53 @DESERT FIGHTER @ali_raza @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal Khan 777 @cabatli_53 @Neptune @LegionnairE @Combat-Master @HRK @Tank131 @Rashid Mahmood @Oscar @war&peace @LeGenD @Areesh @Gryphon

Please tag some "money no problem" kids who claim things to be PERFECT based on their Facebook intelligence network!
As i have been crying for some time along with MANY others, things are really hitting a stand still and not moving ahead at a pace that they should be. Our economic situation is not helping either and the claims of everything being in order are just false!

 

[Muhammad Omar]

*the overall mentality was, they are good at their job, have zero knowledge to properly understand the threats evolving around them. Will shut you up with this logic that this is secret. We wont tell because world eyes are upon us. I told both officerd, indians, britishers americans were more forthcoming hospitable and knowledgeable than you two were. They shrugged there shoulders again

*Brahmos is not so much of a threat. I laughed and said how you gonna intercept a supersonic missile with Pakistani ships ? Then i had to tell him what supersonic means. And he said we are quite capable we will protect pakistani shore

* The mantra throughout the tour was, Pakistan navy is quite capable to protect against all threats. When asked what happens India increases range to 700 Km. They avoided answering

*Then i was ushered hurriedly out when someone shouted from outside, "Farigh karaao unno JALDI". As another VIP delegation was coming

Even if you as Pakistan Army Navy or Airforce they will reply the same we are attaining new heights and we can deal with all kinds of threats

And they gonna shout abandon Ship Abandon ship urf Nasoooo if India fires Brahmos on the ships

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Please tag some "money no problem" kids who claim things to be PERFECT based on their Facebook intelligence network!
As i have been crying for some time along with MANY others, things are really hitting a stand still and not moving ahead at a pace that they should be. Our economic situation is not helping either and the claims of everything being in order are just false!

Yep. If the economy was functioning and there was a culture of general accountability in all domains (civil and military), then in their current state, I have zero doubt Pakistani generals will speak about gaps, weaknesses, etc (i.e. not saying "we're weak" but, "we'll close every gap").

This was quite common in the Musharraf-era, I remember then ACM Kaleem Sadat speaking about gaps and imbalances very frequently. However, some of the energy feeding today's "fluff" - I think - has to do with not wanting to hit national morale even further.

But in this case, my question would be, "why not?" Why not pour that freezing/scoulding water and see if the resulting energy instigates real change? I imagine it's one of those "unknown unknown" scenarios, e.g. you might get an untamable monster, rapid national corrosion, etc. But then again, we're already inching towards that slowly under the status-quo. It's a tough situation to be in tbh...

 

[Kamil_baku]

What's the logic of getting a 300 million dollars vessel which cannot accommodate future upgrade or if any upgrade will be minimum? It's better if you expending extra 100 million per vessel and get I class frigate from turkey which will have much better punch then current Ada class corvette. It seems PN again walking the lines of F-22P frigate excusing fund crisis .

thats what happened eventually

 

[MastanKhan]

So I just came back home from Day 1 DIMDEX-2018. Quite of revelations, disappointments and People who I wanted to meet remain elusive. I reached when 2 hours were left for closing of day one

Turkish are leading the Biggest contingent with Rokestan, STM, ASELSAN, HAVELSAN, SSM, MKEK

Americans are there with Lockheed, General dynamics.

Chinese are there with China Precision Machinery Import and Export Corporation

British are there

French are there

Australian are there

Russians are there with Rosoboronexport

Let's start with MILGEM. I'll remain vague which vendor I discussed things with but the various teams I discussed with was/is involved in technical discussion in both Agosta Submarine and MilGEM


As per the RFP Pakistan floated for MILGEM SHIP. Pakistan is getting ADA CLASS without any VLS. This is what Pakistan will be getting.

View attachment 458993
The modifications would be Missile Tubes will be replaced with Pakistani specific missile tubes and Pakistan has asked to put Chinese equipment on it . Pakistan has not asked for a helicopter with MILGEM ADA in RFP. Turkish vendor is hoping DEAL will be signed before new elections in Pakistan


First Agosta Submarine upgradation timeline is 36 months is a best case scenario. Any glitches and unexpected integration problems can push the timeline further.

We had a perception Pakistan wanted to Upgrade all 3 submarines Nope, Team involved in Deal told me, Pakistan issued tender for only submarine at that time. Not for all 3 and then issued tender for second submarine just a while ago. There is no tender for 3rd submarine upgradation yet


Havelsan is providing combat management system. I asked specifically if Pakistan can integrate missiles of its own as french CMS could not have allowed Pakistan to do that. Team was very Specific, Despite Havelsan CMS being a proprietary System and We wont allow clients to make its own changes but since Pakistan is an exceptional case and we accomodate them always. So IF Pakistan wants to make change in CMS. Their request going to be approved by Turkish Ministry of defence but HAVELSAN will be the one making changes in CMS

I asked If Pakistan asked for any Missile to be integrated of their own from the GET GO. Team was very specific Pakistan didnot put any Request for this in the RFP for now

Any further queries regards havelsan CMS was asked to be redirected to Havelsan Stall. I'm gonna go there and further enquire about their CMS going into Agosta 90 B upgradation

I met the team who is responsible for ASELPOD. As per them ASELPOD doesnot have Datalink capability like SNIPER XR and in near future there is no plan to add this capability. If this capability gonna be added, it gonna be a hardware specific change and Pakistan PODS can not be upgraded, so Pakistan has to buy that specific version

majority of ASELPOD components are home made but some foriegn components are still there and they doesnot fall under ITAR so Pakistan will not be affected by ITAR sanctions

Turkish Team has successfully integrated ASELPOD on Pakistani jet last year and demonstration was successful and after that they scaled down their presence there as Pakistan is quite capable to undertake integration on rest of the Fighter jets


China Precision Machinery Import and Export Corporation. I went to their stall but due to it was 4.40 PM and they were packing up. Didnt get a chance to ask them properly. But yeah On their Display Boards, There was JF-17 Firing Missile. Mentions of CM-400 AKG, C-802 AKG. They have like one dozen SAMS included LY-80 mentioned on their display board. Tomorrow if i get a chance to visit I'm gonna visit and ask them question


Russian were quite cold. But I went to their stall at 4.50 pm. They said since I'm not a reporter just a visitor, they can't entertain any of my requests but come tomorrow, their media specialist can accommodate my queries


I didnt get time to VISIT MKEK, French, American Stalls which I'll visit tomorrow so throw my any questions if you have any



Pakistan Navy Delegation remain elusive. I was not able to locate Navy mission commander or our defence attache there. At 4:50 PM when I was going out I met Pakistani sailors who said they have come on a different bus and are not with Mission commander and can't tell where there leadership delegation is and I've to search for them separately. Lets see if I'm able to find Our Naval Delegation tomorrow !


highlight of the day, when I passed by pakistani sailors group, one sailor was saying, "Idhar se bhagna mushkil hoga"


As exhibition center is very very large and you have to walk a lot.



@Arsalan @The Deterrent @Quwa @cabatli_53 @DESERT FIGHTER @ali_raza @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal Khan 777 @cabatli_53 @Neptune @LegionnairE @Combat-Master @HRK @Tank131 @Rashid Mahmood @Oscar @war&peace @LeGenD @Areesh @Gryphon

Hi,

Great thread young man---sorry missed it somehow---.