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Defining The Punjabi Taliban Network

the weird thing is Taliban are going into punjab...but are having no stronghold whatso ever is Balochistan....and ofcourse hands down balochistan has the most grievences out of all the provinces...i wonder why....

You wonder? I wonder why you wonder.

The baloch nationalist movement is a secular one, and they are opposed to Islamist movements incl. the Taliban, which they see (quite rightfully) as Pakistani proxies.

As a result, Balochistan remains relatively free from Fundamentalist movements, whereas the other Pakistani provinces are suffering the results of these policies.
 
Isn't the province fairly pashtu from Quetta eastward? In addition, are there not a fair number of afghan pashtu refugees whom aren't counted against the resident population?
 
The present Political system, Administrative Sytem, etc etc are all full of corruption, incompetency, hypocrisy& injustice which has created a huge mass of 'have nots' who feel enslaved to few 'haves'. Its not about WAHABISM, DEOBANDISM, SUNNISM or SUFISM. Its all about feeling deprived of 'right/rights'. Right now a lower class intelligent kid even if he/she attends 'public' school will find it very hard to move up the ladder because he/she is not having the correct family & because was not able to attend the 'private school' network. The other option is corruption & using the same 'defunct' system to achieve goals. Where we stand? Answer is in a big 'chaos'. The pefect recruiting ground for anyone (taliban or lenin's red army or even castro & che)who can provide oppurtunity to the 'have nots' who have lost faith & hope in life to vent there 'rage'.
The only cure is providing quick & proper equality based justice which can effectively & ruthlessly check any misuse of power & any exploitation of public resources. A good education & health system. Its easy to sum the soltuion in few words but realistically 'not achievable'. Reason the 'haves' which includes the present politcal, business, administrative 'elite' knowingly or unknowingly dont want to let go & share.
Conclusion: We are soon going to realise that 'TALIBAN' is not just a pushtoon phnenomena
 
"Conclusion: We are soon going to realise that 'TALIBAN' is not just a pushtoon phnenomena"

Which brings us full-circle to a PUNJABI taliban network...alive and kickin' per Hassan Abbas.
 
You wonder? I wonder why you wonder.

The baloch nationalist movement is a secular one, and they are opposed to Islamist movements incl. the Taliban, which they see (quite rightfully) as Pakistani proxies.
As a result, Balochistan remains relatively free from Fundamentalist movements, whereas the other Pakistani provinces are suffering the results of these policies.


hmmm...so we are making these boys kill us...and take over us...because...??? ok i am confused.....

Isn't the province fairly pashtu from Quetta eastward? In addition, are there not a fair number of afghan pashtu refugees whom aren't counted against the resident population?

seems i was wrong about you...you do know a few ground realities...and my question still stands why would taliban not go to balochistan where they have pathans...who are deprieved....and yet they are not intrested....

now taliban if they want to break pakistan then i guess Balochistan would be the easiest option....however...they prefer going to punjab,nwfp...which are or were two peaceful provinces....
 
It reads that the link appears broken but I had the site pop up anyway.

I've had trouble with it periodically tonight. You can always google combatting terror center and then when you get their home page use their search for SENTINEL April 2009.

Good luck.
 
We already know there is a strong taliban command & control apparatus centered on the Quetta Shura. That presence has existed since shortly after the taliban gov't was ousted from Afghanistan. Southern Afghanistan is the heart of the taliban insurgency-not the east/northeast. The further northeast you go, the greater the contact with Haqqani and Hekmatyar pashtu affiliates along with A.Q. arabs, uzbeks, and euro-chechans.

Any Canadian or Brit commander in Kandahar or Helmand will tell you that there's massive movement by taliban back n' forth across the eastern Baluch border with Afghanistan. This movement found it's origins in Kandahar. How far is that from Quetta?
 
Following views which i am giving are honest comments and in no way do i intend to insult people who tread a different path in life as Muslims...as long as none of you is breaking the law, being disrespectful and terrorizing others, you have a right to be different...

Actually i do not share the views held by many that it is because of Sufism that Taliban can or maybe stopped...that is not the correct way to look at it...it is because of a carefully drafted short, mid and long term strategy that we shall root out this menace and ensure that such termites do not eat into the very foundation of Pakistan and for that matter Islam.

I am not a sufi...nor my family...

my belief is simple and unlike many people who visit the shrines i do not ask blessings from noble people who have passed on to join their Maker...I pray for them when i visit their shrines but nothing more...I am sure there are many more like me as well...it does not mean that i will think about destroying a grave or shrine to stop people from coming and do something which i do not agree with...
i cannot look into the heart of every person and judge him for what he feels...only Allah can do that...

Even though i am not a sufi...i do not have any sympathy for the Taliban way of forcing one's inadequate and flawed interpretation of Islam on the others with the barrel of a gun...i only need to open my eyes and i can realize the ignorance and the barbarism of Taliban...all this is actually reinforced by my study of Islam with the passage of years...i know that there is no room in Islam for this kind of mentality...

State can only judge its citizens based on solid evidence and open acts of defiance against the law of the land...nothing more can the state be the judge of...
There is a record of a companion (Hazrat Osama RA most likely) of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) who was fighting in a battle against the hostile enemy army...an enemy combatant struck one of the Muslims and inflicted terrible mortal wounds on him, the young Osama was eager to prove his fighting prowess and engaged the enemy and defeated him, as he was dealing the killing blow the enemy cried out that i accept Islam...this was most likely done by the enemy to save himself since if he declared Islam his past actions against the Muslims would have to be forgiven...Osama judged that the person was just lying to save himself in the battle and dealt the killing blow...this all would have happened within seconds and within heat of battle many things can be forgiven...
However the action was not liked by many Muslims and when news reached the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) he asked of the companion whether he had the ability to pierce the heart of men to know of their truthfulness in accepting Islam or being Muslims.
To me this incident clearly reflects one of the basic things about Islam which has been totally perverted by these gun trotting Mullahs.
What is in the heart of a person cannot be judged by anyone but Allah!

There is no instruction in the Quran which in any way authorize such atrocities.
Where is the mercy?
Where is the forgiveness?
Where is the love which our beloved Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) displayed throughout his life...even to those who committed absolutely horrible and vile acts against him and his closest individuals.
Remember how he forgave the persons who defiled the body of his most beloved uncle?
Remember how he forgave all of the Meccans who persecuted him and his family?

The Taliban are an assortment of thugs, criminals, murderers and misguided youth who are getting a lot of funding and are rallying behind a farce supported by many crazy Mullahs who are actually just fighting to gain power and find it convenient to give blessings to such people who will do the dirty work...

Why is it that in the early days of Islam many mosques were brought down during reconstruction of the cities/roads etc but in Pakistan if you touch one brick ... a mullah and his private army starts an agitation invoking the wrath of Allah on all who touch the Mosque...the mosque has been hijacked by these Mullahs who have nowhere else to go...what is to be expected from such an individual who sees the mosque not as the community center and prayer area but as his personal fiefdom?
To control his castle and garner support the Mullah will resort to cheap tricks and deception, he is similar to a politician but the impact on society is far more damaging since whoever falls in his trap thinks it as a great cause to support the Mullah, come what may...the misguided follow these harbingers of doom who will use them as pawns in the efforts to gain power.
i have seen some Mullahs giving so much out of context lectures that it literally shocked me...

The Mullahs are like a pack of wolves who have tasted blood...they will not rest till their back is broken...they will find fault with all of us...they will see evil in every action of the state to correct the madrassas and to check the Mullah...they will keep us all engaged in pointless arguments and conspiracy theories...they have and will certainly distort the message of Islam to mould young minds to suit their own agenda....

A young mind is easily influenced by the elders, in madrassa a young person is left by his poor family and total control over the young mind is achieved by the Mullah running the madrassa...if the Mullah is a good person it shall be alright but if the Mullah has his own personal agendas and is supportive of such ideas as propagated by the Taliban then it is a disaster of the highest order...he will have all the time and the control to make the child follow his personal agenda and all in the name of a holy cause...
are our young children merely cannon fodder?

I know that many madrassas are excellent charity organizations providing hope and a life to the destitute and needy...
however there is the other side of the coin as well and we need to ensure that sufficient checks are kept in place to keep it out of control of the gun slinging militants...the funding needs to be regularized and monitored...the Mullahs running the madrassa need to be checked regularly...actually all such institutions need to be regularized as per a clearly defined scope and standards...
this is a daunting task but i do not see any strategy because no one has the guts to take the bull by the horns and risk a public unrest due to the backlash of the Mullah...
Who will handle this fifth column support element which is most likely present in many madrassas?
Reforms need to be made and the solution is not military but needs excellent and well thought out strategy...

We know our backyard better than the US or any other country...most of us know that banishing the mosque or the madrassa is the most stupid way to go about solving our problems...the only way is to spend time, effort and money to make sure there is no room for militancy and extremism in Pakistan.

However as a people we have not yet matured enough to segregate between an action against rogue institutions etc and an action against Islam...Lal Masjid is a clear example of this tendency of our nation to change their views in hindsight...
this is the real problem which any leader will face when he decides to address the issues...How to act without seeming like a henchman of the west...


Recently i have observed that many members here see Pakistan as a state which targets its minorities...
The Shias are an integral part of Pakistan...i have Shias as my colleagues, friends and cousins as well...i may not agree on some of their interpretations but i see them as 100% Muslims and do not doubt their Islam, which is for Allah to judge eventually...i do not see any discrimination against any sects in Pakistan...this is the most gross accusation that anyone can make...
there are sickos and militants etc who target different groups but there is no prejudice in neither the hearts of majority of Pakistanis nor in their actions.
All the Minorities (many Christians and some Sikhs) that i have interacted with are doing what they please without any fear at all, the fears they may have are actually which we all share...as Pakistanis and not as a particular sect...

The BLA is a terrorist outfit and is as much scum as the Taliban...just because they are not towing the Taliban line...it does not imply that when it suits them...they will not join the Taliban...BLA is a movement which is started by certain influential people in Baluchistan who see the many projects in the province as a long term threat to their power...Bugti never allowed any school to function in his domain...the schools were there but no teacher dared to go there for fear of his life...anyone who deviated from any of the imposed demands of the sardars was tortured and killed ruthlessly...this is the kind of mentality which gave birth to BLA and its kind...it is just another form of Terrorism...though some countries call it a freedom movement to antagonize Pakistan.
Unlike all the provinces, Baluchistan is very sparsely populated, therefore Taliban will not hold much territory unless they can face PA and PAF in full fledged war and highly kinetic actions...this is why the Taliban will target populated areas...they do not see it a good bargain yet...
The DI Khan to DG Khan belt is once again another sparsely populated area, not to mention easily accessible from tribal areas...this is the reason this area is more vulnerable...
Once Pak Army is properly used by the GOP and a reasonable strategy is in place...Taliban will not survive long.

Pakistan is being targeted by many terrorists who have declared all their opponents as a righteous kill...as a consequence, all kinds of Pakistanis stand united against them whether they are Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashtoon, Baluch, Kashmiri or any of the minorities...it is not right to assume that Taliban represent the grievances of any particular people...just as it will be not right to assume that the Taliban will only target a certain sect of people...

All those who oppose the views held by the Taliban do so at the bane of their very life...that is the mandate of these unholy warriors...
 
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@ Bill Longley
you see i think there are two types of muslim
1. who have faith in wasila
2. those who deny

or
1. those who belive in batin
2. those who dont

ppl of punjab belong to first


I'll be honest I have no idea what wasila and batin are. So I'll refrain from commenting here.



according to marks " war is actually a voilent class struggle "

Marx said that in what context?

ppl of pak have become hopeless of present elite they may support talibs initially but not for long because talibs represent ideology which is amalgam of pashtunvali and islam. where as in punjab and sindh people follow sufism.

Hmm...firstly, the Taliban may not have popular support from the masses in the Punjab but their numbers and tactics are obviously overwhelming the existing security apparatus in the province. Popular support hasn't been able to turn the tide against them in the Frontier province, so I don't expect to see it happen elsewhere.
 
hmmm...so we are making these boys kill us...and take over us...because...??? ok i am confused.....

Because you ARE confused.

Pakistan has used Islamist proxies as a counterweight to the Baloch nationalists for years.
 
@ Bill Longley: Talibanisation doesn't happen overnight. It's a long arduous process. It takes years of brainwashing — something which the govt. of Pkistn should have taken note of when it allowed madrassas to sprout up all over Pakistan. Hence the "Talibs" are already there is those madrassas of south Punjab — it's only a matter of time when they are invoked by the likes of Hafix Saeed and Commander Tari...at the end of the day they do share the Deobandism with the Taliban if not their ethnicity.

Yes they are involved however the reason that you see the Talibanization in the tribal areas is because of the cultural affinity (Taliban belong to these areas) and as such people are more open to them than they would be in bigger and more settled areas of Pakistan. The level of education etc. is vastly different. Secondly, while Deobandis are definitely closer to the taliban in terms of ideology, the vast majority of people in Pakistan's settled areas adhere to the Barelvi school.

I think what has happened in FATA etc. cannot happen in Punjab and Sind. I am not saying that violence, suicide attacks etc. are not possible, however the takeover of entire areas is not a possibility. No way!
 
"Conclusion: We are soon going to realise that 'TALIBAN' is not just a pushtoon phnenomena"

Which brings us full-circle to a PUNJABI taliban network...alive and kickin' per Hassan Abbas.

Alive and kicking but limited in their reach which he himself highlights. There are limitations to what the Pashtun Taliban can achieve. Beyond their domain (FATA etc.) the provincial dynamics creep in. Militant entities exist in pretty much all Pakistani provinces. However the militants need support to sustain them in the manner they were helped in FATA/Swat (by fear or sympathy is another issue) which allowed them to hold ground. They will not get the same support in Punjab or Sind.
 

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