CPEC a game changer ?

[litman]

Ok I have been reading about CPEC and its impact on Pakistan and the region. Now can someone please correct me if I am wrong, from a nutshell it looks like a well oiled transit route which China will use to egress and ingress its products easily to the outside world and Pakistan.

Some quick questions.

- What does Pakistan gain from it apart from transit fees ?

- Is the term "game changer" being used without being backed by concrete facts and figures ?

- What is the main Pakistani export to China that is currently not being undertaken using the current road networks

/Peace


_______________________________________

http://www.dawn.com/news/1236949

you can well imagine the importance of CPEC from the simple fact that usa, india, afghanistan and iran are doing their best to spoil the project.

 

[A-Team]

you can well imagine the importance of CPEC from the simple fact that usa, india, afghanistan and iran are doing their best to spoil the project.[/QUOTE

I can't speak for Iran or India but Afghanistan benefits from it and thus see this a positive project.

 

[Nilgiri]

LOL....lol........it's the truth though. The PTB that ensured Pakistan becomes a nuclear weapons state when it was virtually impossible to do so (on paper) and the world was against it is the same force that will ensure CPEC makes Pakistan an economic powerhouse. Something that is far easier to do so.

Enjoy it when Pakistan grows under 5% yet again this year....and more CPEC dream stories come out to deflect attention from the reality (its always just around the corner!). Its the new eternal pipe dream for Pakistan....a country that has 13% gross capital formation in terms of GDP for many years running now (if you even know what that means).

Its easy to acquire nukes when China hands over the CHIC-4 design in the 80s.

Actually investing in schools and education so CPEC isnt a bloated white elephant is the hard part for Pakistan's politicians and bureaucrats.....since they have to be interested in actually getting the % of kids completing high school past say 2 thirds (from the less than half its currently stuck in, worse than a number of the poorest sub saharan countries). Not to mention the terrible quality of those that do pass through which makes them unemployable in modern industry (why do you think the Chinese have cleverly commited to Tier 1 capacity and next to nothing in the realm of actual manufacturing and industry).

So laugh all you want, the big joke is Pakistans economic growth rate for the last several years which shows no signs of improving according to just about everyone.

 

[farhan_9909]

Enjoy it when Pakistan grows under 5% yet again this year....and more CPEC dream stories come out to deflect attention from the reality (its always just around the corner!). Its the new eternal pipe dream for Pakistan....a country that has 13% gross capital formation in terms of GDP for many years running now (if you even know what that means).

Its easy to acquire nukes when China hands over the CHIC-4 design in the 80s.

Actually investing in schools and education so CPEC isnt a bloated white elephant is the hard part for Pakistan's politicians and bureaucrats.....since they have to be interested in actually getting the % of kids completing high school past say 2 thirds (from the less than half its currently stuck in, worse than a number of the poorest sub saharan countries). Not to mention the terrible quality of those that do pass through which makes them unemployable in modern industry (why do you think the Chinese have cleverly commited to Tier 1 capacity and next to nothing in the realm of actual manufacturing and industry).

So laugh all you want, the big joke is Pakistans economic growth rate for the last several years which shows no signs of improving according to just about everyone.

if this year the Industrial sector sustain the growth rate and possible improvement in agri sector,Pakistan can grow beyond 5% considering that this year budget is pro agri sector.

i read in a report that if the agri sector had performed like last year(not the target),the growth rate would had been 5.2%.

though i agree we may cross 5% next year but i don't call this any improvement unless we even surpass the set target of 5.7%

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

if this year the Industrial sector sustain the growth rate and possible improvement in agri sector,Pakistan can grow beyond 5% considering that this year budget is pro agri sector.

i read in a report that if the agri sector had performed like last year(not the target),the growth rate would had been 5.2%.

though i agree we may cross 5% next year but i don't call this any improvement unless we even surpass the set target of 5.7%

Pak economy has all the ingredients for the growth. Only the Helva needs to be cooked.

Now, I'd like to share a few staffs from the Turkish experience regarding the revival of the economy under the Muslim government of Reis Erdo'an. Before 2002, Turkey used to suffer economic crisis/meltdowns every few years due to high rate of borrowing, hyper inflation, stagnant business sector etc. specially under secular governments. Whenever governments were pro-Muslim like that during 1950-60; 1965-70 or 1980-90, Turkey used to have continuous growth. What's the secret? I'm no expert on that but from the reflexes of Millet we know that there are some knobs to stimulate the economy from the government side:

• Monetary/fiscal policies: get rid of IMF. Don't fully believe in their theories. There are many other venues to spur the growth through careful policy making based on Islamic traditions. I have to admit Turkey's Muslim economic bureaucrats are quite expert on that, and Reis Erdo'an has given them a free hand. End result: quadrupling the economy in the last 14 years with no economic crises, and the best part being the kicking out of the IMF from the Turkish shores forever. You have to hire them to know the secrets.
• State shouldn't get involved in businesses or industries. Make them public companies and sell them. Make your trusted and eligible Dindar folks as CEOs.
• More than 50% of the economy is undocumented. Esnaf (self employed traders, entrepreneurs etc.) are the major stake holders of that part. Make policies to facilitate their activities, and slowly try to document them so that taxes can be collected.
• Help SMEs, agri sector etc.
• Don't shy away from large projects like barrages, power generation, highways, mass housing etc.
• Encourage investments.
• etc.

 

[Nilgiri]

Pak economy has all the ingredients for the growth. Only the Helva needs to be cooked.

Now, I'd like to share a few staffs from the Turkish experience regarding the revival of the economy under the Muslim government of Reis Erdo'an. Before 2002, Turkey used to suffer economic crisis/meltdowns every few years due to high rate of borrowing, hyper inflation, stagnant business sector etc. specially under secular governments. Whenever governments were pro-Muslim like that during 1950-60; 1965-70 or 1980-90, Turkey used to have continuous growth. What's the secret? I'm no expert on that but from the reflexes of Millet we know that there are some knobs to stimulate the economy from the government side:

• Monetary/fiscal policies: get rid of IMF. Don't fully believe in their theories. There are many other venues to spur the growth through careful policy making based on Islamic traditions. I have to admit Turkey's Muslim economic bureaucrats are quite expert on that, and Reis Erdo'an has given them a free hand. End result: quadrupling the economy in the last 14 years with no economic crises, and the best part being the kicking out of the IMF from the Turkish shores forever. You have to hire them to know the secrets.
• State shouldn't get involved in businesses or industries. Make them public companies and sell them. Make your trusted and eligible Dindar folks as CEOs.
• More than 50% of the economy is undocumented. Esnaf (self employed traders, entrepreneurs etc.) are the major stake holders of that part. Make policies to facilitate their activities, and slowly try to document them so that taxes can be collected.
• Help SMEs, agri sector etc.
• Don't shy away from large projects like barrages, power generation, highways, mass housing etc.
• Encourage investments.
• etc.

Pakistan is missing one vital ingredient: quality and quantity education for its children and youth.

Turkey in 2002 or any year in recent times was way ahead of Pakistan in this currently.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Enjoy it when Pakistan grows under 5% yet again this year....and more CPEC dream stories come out to deflect attention from the reality (its always just around the corner!). Its the new eternal pipe dream for Pakistan....a country that has 13% gross capital formation in terms of GDP for many years running now (if you even know what that means).

Its easy to acquire nukes when China hands over the CHIC-4 design in the 80s.

Actually investing in schools and education so CPEC isnt a bloated white elephant is the hard part for Pakistan's politicians and bureaucrats.....since they have to be interested in actually getting the % of kids completing high school past say 2 thirds (from the less than half its currently stuck in, worse than a number of the poorest sub saharan countries). Not to mention the terrible quality of those that do pass through which makes them unemployable in modern industry (why do you think the Chinese have cleverly commited to Tier 1 capacity and next to nothing in the realm of actual manufacturing and industry).

So laugh all you want, the big joke is Pakistans economic growth rate for the last several years which shows no signs of improving according to just about everyone.

Think you Indian people have more important things to worry about than the growth or not of the Pakistani economy. It is not Pakistan that has at least 33% of the world's most severely malnourished and extreme poor. It is your country:

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/indias-malnutrition-shame/

http://m.firstpost.com/business/eco...ne-that-shows-67-of-india-is-poor-993241.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-third-of-worlds-poorest-says-World-Bank.html

What good is your economy on paper when the above hell is the reality of your nation and race. I'd rather fail on paper than have the above reality for my country.

 

[Nilgiri]

Think you Indian people have more important things to worry about than the growth or not of the Pakistani economy. It is not Pakistan that has at least 33% of the world's most severely malnourished and extreme poor. It is your country:

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/indias-malnutrition-shame/

http://m.firstpost.com/business/eco...ne-that-shows-67-of-india-is-poor-993241.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-third-of-worlds-poorest-says-World-Bank.html

What good is your economy on paper when the above hell is the reality of your nation and race. I'd rather fail on paper than have the above reality for my country.

Overall human development is higher than Pakistan (look at Indian HDI versus Pakistan.....India has higher life expectancy, higher education prevalence and higher income and is improving a lot quicker than Pakistan even though Pakistan should be since its well behind). India improved its HDI by 6 ranks between 2009 and 2014, whereas Pakistan stagnated (0 rank change).

Pakistan in Human Development in 2014 is at the level India was in 2004 (about 10 years behind and increasing).

India is better than Pakistan when it comes to malnutrition/hunger:

http://ghi.ifpri.org/countries/IND/

http://ghi.ifpri.org/countries/PAK/

and again improving faster (India improved by 9.5 points in 10 years compared to Pakistan's improvement of 4.4 points in same time period).

So the reality is worse overall in your country according to the international calibrated measures for social development.

Nepal and Bangladesh both are better in HDI than Pakistan ( a country that suffers from polio still because social health workers are deliberately targetted and killed because of the prevalent belief of vaccine conspiracies)....and I bet you Afghanistan is not far behind surpassing Pakistan one day as well in social development:

http://hdr.undp.org/en/composite/HDI

Pakistan is a full 14 ranks behind its income rank compared to 4 for India, illustrating that its social development is far behind even its income development compared to India.

That is the reality of the situation overall. Cherry picking one or two articles and ignoring the larger picture is quite foolhardy.

Yes we are two different people and we are leaving you in the dust more and more with each passing year. The neutrally compiled data confirms it.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Overall human development is higher than Pakistan (look at Indian HDI versus Pakistan.....India has higher life expectancy, higher education prevalence and higher income and is improving a lot quicker than Pakistan even though Pakistan should be since its well behind). India improved its HDI by 6 ranks between 2009 and 2014, whereas Pakistan stagnated (0 rank change).

Pakistan in Human Development in 2014 is at the level India was in 2004 (about 10 years behind and increasing).

India is better than Pakistan when it comes to malnutrition/hunger:

http://ghi.ifpri.org/countries/IND/

http://ghi.ifpri.org/countries/PAK/

and again improving faster (India improved by 9.5 points in 10 years compared to Pakistan's improvement of 4.4 points in same time period).

So the reality is worse overall in your country according to the international calibrated measures for social development.

Nepal and Bangladesh both are better in HDI than Pakistan ( a country that suffers from polio still because social health workers are deliberately targetted and killed because of the prevalent belief of vaccine conspiracies)....and I bet you Afghanistan is not far behind surpassing Pakistan one day as well in social development:

http://hdr.undp.org/en/composite/HDI

Pakistan is a full 14 ranks behind its income rank compared to 4 for India, illustrating that its social development is far behind even its income development compared to India.

That is the reality of the situation overall. Cherry picking one or two articles and ignoring the larger picture is quite foolhardy.

Yes we are two different people and we are leaving you in the dust more and more with each passing year. The neutrally compiled data confirms it.

Really! I thought that you and your compatriots said india was already a superpower. Ahead of China and set to over take america in 5 years. Do superpowers have any poverty at all?

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

its great as you have proved from your posts that india is behind pakistan is all indicators that means pakistan is much ahead of china and overtook america. and is a hyperpower because of cpac project where all the worlds trade will be routed to gwadar and japan and china and have that cpec access to trade between themselves.

LOL.........Indian sarcasm and humour at it's best.....lol

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

thanks frnd , so tell me more about cpec can India and kenya trade through this route ??? which will turn pakistan more develop than china coz of cpec

CPEC aside, as long as Pakistanis don't end up looking like indians, we will always be successful and winners.......lol....

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

the way world looks at pakistanis right now, even somialians are better off

I'm glad they are. But I certainly don't give a toss and couldn't care less.

 

[Khan_21]

Overall human development is higher than Pakistan (look at Indian HDI versus Pakistan.....India has higher life expectancy, higher education prevalence and higher income and is improving a lot quicker than Pakistan even though Pakistan should be since its well behind). India improved its HDI by 6 ranks between 2009 and 2014, whereas Pakistan stagnated (0 rank change).

Pakistan in Human Development in 2014 is at the level India was in 2004 (about 10 years behind and increasing).

India is better than Pakistan when it comes to malnutrition/hunger:

http://ghi.ifpri.org/countries/IND/

http://ghi.ifpri.org/countries/PAK/

and again improving faster (India improved by 9.5 points in 10 years compared to Pakistan's improvement of 4.4 points in same time period).

So the reality is worse overall in your country according to the international calibrated measures for social development.

Nepal and Bangladesh both are better in HDI than Pakistan ( a country that suffers from polio still because social health workers are deliberately targetted and killed because of the prevalent belief of vaccine conspiracies)....and I bet you Afghanistan is not far behind surpassing Pakistan one day as well in social development:

http://hdr.undp.org/en/composite/HDI

Pakistan is a full 14 ranks behind its income rank compared to 4 for India, illustrating that its social development is far behind even its income development compared to India.

That is the reality of the situation overall. Cherry picking one or two articles and ignoring the larger picture is quite foolhardy.

Yes we are two different people and we are leaving you in the dust more and more with each passing year. The neutrally compiled data confirms it.

First of all India is regarded as a poor and dirty country by almost everyone . Our cities are not pile of garbage . Your cities have the honour of being the most polluted and dirtiest in the world .

http://www.indiatimes.com/travel/mumbai-voted-worlds-dirtiest-city-50300.html

http://indianexpress.com/article/ci...world-delhi-suffers-from-a-toxic-blend-study/

And considering Indians living habits I am not surprised they are fond of living in that dirt at all .

Second incase of income it wasn't until 7 years ago that you passed us . So that means for 65 years you were behind . . Human development index is not the be all end all . Pakistan is ranked well ahead then India in world happiness report 2016 . In terms of poverty , your percentage of population is way higher which suffer from poverty just check world bank figures or human development 2016 report . PK is ahead even on another Happiness index which is Happy planet Index . And the Life expectancy for both countries is almost equal so don't misguide people .

http://www.happyplanetindex.org/data/

http://povertydata.worldbank.org/poverty/country/IND
http://povertydata.worldbank.org/poverty/country/PAK

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...els-higher-than-Pakistans-says-UN-report.html

In absolute terms, 41.6 per cent of India's 1.1 billion people earned less than 78 pence per day compared with 22.6 per cent of Pakistan's 173 million.

The report quotes its 'multi-dimensional poverty index' which includes measures of schooling, child mortality, nutrition, access to electricity, toilets, drinking water, and hygienic living conditions, and reveals India is poorer.
It found 53.7 per cent of Indians suffering from this broader kind of poverty, compared with 49 per cent of Pakistanis.

So according to this report India is behind on poverty , access to electricity , living in hygenic conditions and what not .

You might as learn from Pakistan how to live in a clean way .

http://tribune.com.pk/story/883648/...n-improving-water-and-sanitation-study-shows/

Pakistan was ranked five and India 92 .

And finally there loads of areas where Pakistan excell India like road infrastructure , Access to electricity ( only 75 % of India has electricity compared to 92 of ours) , sanitation etc etc . Just check hundreds of indicators here and you will find loads of fields where Pakistan is ahead .

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator

 

[EAK]

I dont think they are going to get any transit fee... Roads are built by them and pakistan has to repay at a rate of 18% on dollar value... Gwadar is leased for 40 years as of now and chinese have all rights on port.. no fees for Pakistan as per my understanding... power plants are also chinese companies, chinese engineers and chinese maintenance... but pakistan has to payback at 18% interest rate... i am not sure what pakistan will gain...

local businesses will thrive.. enterpreneurs will bloom in SMEs mostly... those will generate taxes.. but wil they offset the loss and compensate for 18% annual interest rate ?? Big question.

and NO, there might not be any major exports from pakistan except mangoes.

Yes dear hater we will gain nothing ..happy.. now you can sleep in peace..

 

[Viper0011.]

Overall human development is higher than Pakistan (look at Indian HDI versus Pakistan.....India has higher life expectancy, higher education prevalence and higher income and is improving a lot quicker than Pakistan even though Pakistan should be since its well behind). India improved its HDI by 6 ranks between 2009 and 2014, whereas Pakistan stagnated (0 rank change).

Pakistan in Human Development in 2014 is at the level India was in 2004 (about 10 years behind and increasing)..

And these HDI numbers are real? Help me understand......a country where 600 MILLION people don't have access to sanitation, aka, bathrooms, and proper places to eat......that country could jump above many countries? 95% of the countries don't even have a population of 600 million for comparisons.....so that HDI report is paid for. Like the FDI report is fake coming from India. You guys add billions of dollars in Salaries of people working in India and show it as "FDI"...... Yes, the FDI still is high, but its actually 60-70% of what is being shown to the world

On longer life expectancy, there is a basic reason. Quit eating BEEF and if Pakistanis do that, their life expectancy ALONE will go up by 10 years as 95% of the Heart related deaths take place due to Cholesterol and Smoking in Pakistan. Pakistan has one of the highest consumption of the Red meat (both Beef and Lamb) and Smoking. Remove these, and add 45 minutes of Physical activity a day (walk, run, jog), and you can live 15-20 years longer, scientifically proven.

I went for my Physical last year, and even in the US, they have started to advise all the patients to stay away from Red meat, eat more Fish and Vegetables and spend an hour a day in Walking or Exercising, you'll live much longer. That has NOTHING to do with "growing economy", its a lifestyle issue. India has one of the largest Vegetarian population and naturally, they'll live longer. Vegetarian diet just doesn't have Cholesterol, or its so little that it has no impact versus what you get in Red meat and fatty Oils. Pakistanis love to eat. Indians don't love to eat as much and their portions are smaller too (another recommendations that doctors make to follow).