Controversy: Waziris Mourn Their Dead After Army Attacks

[Elmo]

Apparently local news channels refused to run this package"

Wondering if @Icarus, @Xeric, @muse, @fatman17 can comment on it-

Waziris Mourn Their Dead After Army Attacks: Waziris Mourn Their Dead After Army Attacks | Tanqeed on Vimeo

*** Just moved this to the Senior's Cafe - don't want a troll fest.

 

[TaimiKhan]

There is nothing new in it, the incident was told on the news channel, army guys did said it was my mistake and the issue got resolved after the local political agent admin said that they will pay compensations to the killed and injured.

It happened quiet a few days back.

 

[Last Hope]

Pakistan Army has always tried to minimize the collateral damage during any sort of operation, air-to-ground attack or ground-based offensive. Co-ordinates for the attack are always cross-checked and ensured that no civilian presence is there prior to air or artillery attack. If otherwise, then a staged/planned operation is executed to neutralize the threat without any or least possible collateral damage.

There is a famous incident where an Army Aviation Cobra was given co-ordinates for attack on confirmed miscreant position. Upon reaching the point, the operators got confused finding civilian presence which was just like normal day's routine for the people. Before they could figure out what went wrong, the miscreants opened fire at the chopper.

Another recent incident where PAF F-16s dropped bombs on enemy hideouts resulted in death to 2 or 3 civilian who happened to be near the area of target, which actually was slightly away from a village. Compensation was given to the families of the deceased in this case.

Collateral damage is a part of war, especially when it is inside your own borders. You can certainly not avoid it but take all measures to minimize it.

If Pakistan Army today leaves Waziristan, then tomorrow these same people would come crying asking for Army operation, just like in Swat. The TTP would try to establish their control over the region, and atleast half of the residents would accept them in their uniform of religion. After gaining control, they will start with their inhumane, illogical and most importantly Un-Islamic law. This would then make these people realize their mistake.

But in the end, people have power. If they (majority) demand Army to step back, we should do it then, but not stay completely off-guard as we know what's to come.

 

[fatman17]

in waziristan, one just dosnt know who the real enemy/militants are. the tribes change their allegiences as fast as you can blink. anyway this was a mil-op gone bad. it happens even though the military makes extra sure that the right people are targeted. the army should acknowledge their mistake and make repairations to the families involved. if any army personnel have made wrong decisions, they should be investigated.

seems like the 'mullah's are taking advantage of the incident.

 

[fatman17]

the army has recently made some 'inroads' or 'recce' missions into NWA to check on militant hideouts/sanctuaries. it seems now that the army is going to put pressure on the afghan militants. the above incident was one such.

 

[Arsalan]

Pak army is surely fighting a new kind of war, one they have no previous experience of and one that is quite hard to fight in.
AS Sir Fatman suggested, with continuously changing allegiance, it sometimes is real hard to distinguish between friends and enemies. It get worst when we got beaten up for guessing it wrong, hard to take chances and spreading miss information will also do effect.
However, this was a sad incident and the authorities are always on to it to avoid such situations.
we cannot deny the fact that military is doing a pretty decent job in these areas and surely taking a toll at TTP.

We can just pray all this ends sooner rather then later.

 

[A1Kaid]

I watched the video and first thing that comes to mind is there is a lack of national identity in Waziristan, they refer to themselves as "Waziris" and after the unfortunate attacks one man asked the Army to leave. Waziris need to understand if it wasn't for their lack of integration and unwilling to integrate into Pakistani mainstream, and if it wasn't for their primitive ways Army would not have to be there. They are the ones who allowed TTP and AQ to take root in that area, and have brought problems for the entire 180 million people of Pakistan all because these tribal primitives want to keep separate. This is why groups like Taliban and AQ found it easy to move in and settle in Waziristan because the tribal societies did nothing about it, they got bribed and allowed them onto the sovereignty of Pakistan. Though Pakistan should have a permanent military presence in Waziristan and tribal areas.

This is why I support disbanding the tribal culture in that region. Have to educate children there about how primitive and wrong the tribal system is, secondly arrest and neutralize tribal leaders, heavy policing, etc.

Pakistan needs to understand tribalism is not an effective and responsible governing body, these people follow archaic laws and pose a danger to Pakistan.

 

[Jango]

I watched the video and first thing that comes to mind is there is a lack of national identity in Waziristan, they refer to themselves as "Waziris" and after the unfortunate attacks one man asked the Army to leave. Waziris need to understand if it wasn't for their lack of integration and unwilling to integrate into Pakistani mainstream, and if it wasn't for their primitive ways Army would not have to be there. They are the ones who allowed TTP and AQ to take root in that area, and have brought problems for the entire 180 million people of Pakistan all because these tribal primitives want to keep separate. This is why groups like Taliban and AQ found it easy to move in and settle in Waziristan because the tribal societies did nothing about it, they got bribed and allowed them onto the sovereignty of Pakistan. Though Pakistan should have a permanent military presence in Waziristan and tribal areas.

This is why I support disbanding the tribal culture in that region. Have to educate children there about how primitive and wrong the tribal system is, secondly arrest and neutralize tribal leaders, heavy policing, etc.

Pakistan needs to understand tribalism is not an effective and responsible governing body, these people follow archaic laws and pose a danger to Pakistan.

That wouldn't be the best thing to do in current times IMO.

A more better way of better integrating them into our mainland society would be to ofcourse educate them, and bring about changes in laws. Why in the world are we still having FCR in these areas? The tribal system should remain, it will remain in the future I see, and any attempt at breaking up the tribal system would be suicidal in these times. The pro-govt tribes might also go anti if we do this.

If we start educating people and bringing them more exposure, then automatically the next generation will move away from these older systems, and try to be more adjusted in the state system as a normal area. This change would be gradual and slow and would face many problems (TTP presence in the area being one), but it would ensure that an abrupt change won't come and present Elders won't have a fit about it and go against the state.

 

[A1Kaid]

That wouldn't be the best thing to do in current times IMO.

A more better way of better integrating them into our mainland society would be to ofcourse educate them, and bring about changes in laws. Why in the world are we still having FCR in these areas? The tribal system should remain, it will remain in the future I see, and any attempt at breaking up the tribal system would be suicidal in these times. The pro-govt tribes might also go anti if we do this.

If we start educating people and bringing them more exposure, then automatically the next generation will move away from these older systems, and try to be more adjusted in the state system as a normal area. This change would be gradual and slow and would face many problems (TTP presence in the area being one), but it would ensure that an abrupt change won't come and present Elders won't have a fit about it and go against the state.

Agreed, educating the youth there in Government schools will gradually reform the ideology of the people there and future generations. Trying to dismantle the Tribal society by force will cause more blood shed and violence. A major problem with these tribal people are they do not adhere to Pakistani national law though they are technically Pakistani citizens, every citizen of Pakistan should be under the jurisdiction of Pakistani law if Pakistan is to be a modern state.

 

[Jango]

Agreed, educating the youth there in Government schools will gradually reform the ideology of the people there and future generations. Trying to dismantle the Tribal society by force will cause more blood shed and violence. A major problem with these tribal people are they do not adhere to Pakistani national law though they are technically Pakistani citizens, every citizen of Pakistan should be under the jurisdiction of Pakistani law if Pakistan is to be a modern state.

The big problem arises on the question of law, why is FCR still there and not normal Pak laws? The status of these areas needs to be discussed by the people in assemblies rather than no use bills on support of somebody's decision or for support of Malala.

Icarus is the expert on this issue IMO, maybe he can expand on this.

 

[A1Kaid]

The big problem arises on the question of law, why is FCR still there and not normal Pak laws? The status of these areas needs to be discussed by the people in assemblies rather than no use bills on support of somebody's decision or for support of Malala.

Icarus is the expert on this issue IMO, maybe he can expand on this.

I just looked this up and after reading I think it has to do with Article 247 of the Pakistani Constitution.

Article 247 of the Pakistani Constitution provides that no Act of Parliament applies to FATA, unless the President of Pakistan consents. Only the President is authorized to amend laws and promulgate ordinances for the tribal areas. The elected representatives thus have no say in administration of FATA. It also repeals the jurisdiction of Pakistan's courts over FATA. By inference, this also limits the application of fundamental rights to FATA.

Article 247 and the Federal Crimes Regulation have been condemned by several jurists. Late Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, Justice Alvin Robert Cornelius, said that the FCR is "obnoxious to all recognised modern principles governing the dispensation of justice" in the case of Sumunder vs State (PLD 1954 FC 228).)[4]

Source: Frontier Crimes Regulations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jango]

A quick look on article 247 shows that it is regarding the authority of President in FATA.

But this has to be changed. We can't go on like this. As I understand, FCR was brought into place by the British to quell Pukhtoon rebellions and dissent, but now since we are a separate country, facing no rebellion or dissent, why continue with the laws?

And another question arises, that if the NA has no jurisdiction over FATA, and it's decisions are not to be implemented there, then why have reserved FATA seats in NA?