China's pivot...To the World

[Genesis]

America's pivot to Asia, America to commit 60% of it's fleet to Asian Pacific, Asian Pacific is a major interest to America.....

All we been hearing is the American pivot to Asian pacific, but almost nothing of China's pivot to the world. To be fair, much has been said of China's activies in Africa, South America, Europe and Asia, but it hasn't really been discussed the effects of these efforts.

Just to be clear, this isn't a plan to pivot, it's more of a side effect of massive growth and being the world's biggest trading nation, and maybe the world's biggest industrial power, and soon to be service power. (Many say China isn't service oriented or software and medical expertise are not the best, this is false, it just we are a major power here, bigger than pretty much anyone, except the Us and maybe Japan. It just so happens, our industrial power is far bigger than anyone in the world that in comparison it is small.)


What this would mean is that China will soon be, and already is in some areas, a major player in the world. Things cannot be done without China now and especially in the future, that is a reality of things now. Some have suggested America, and the world can go on without China, if they mean they will still exist on the map, than yes, but if they mean economically not dead, then anybody that's ever been fired or laid off should also be fine and EI is a waste of tax payer dollars.

What this would mean to China's overall strategy in Asia and beyond is simple, America is encircling China with Asia, we will simply jump out of the encirclement and "encircle" America with the world.

The one thing we are counting on is that America has interests everywhere, and America not only need to protect those interests, but also to expand them. We are also counting on the fact the world isn't all sunshine and rainbows, at some point, someone will hurt american interests, and with China lurking in the shadows, they have one more option than simply listening to America.

An interesting example to consider is the "win" that America got with the environment deal with China. I have no doubt China will do what the deal stipulates and more with or without it, but just this one thing is clear, America cannot ignore what will soon become her only real peer in the world. In a world of a thousand monkeys(no racism here, wouldn't declare this if not on this forum), can America catch them all, all by themselves. Even if they could they would exhaust all their resources, not to mention there is a new forest in town and it's open for business.

Now let's revisit the "China is stupid for making enemies all around," we got the only friend that matters, America. We may not like each other, but we sure as hell would need each other, and since we never had much interest to begin with world wide, as we expand in all the places that don't hate us and need us, America would need to make up its mind.

Would America continue to pour massive resources into the Asian Pacific region? Or just make it one of the interest areas rather than THE interest area.


Even without pouring resources into the Asian Pacific region, there are things only another great power can do, like cutting off all possible options and forcing someone to the table. With the demise of the USSR, America became the sole option, but China is increasingly becoming an option to the world, only a matter of time now before we expand in such a way that our influence must be considered. Again, side effect of a major economy.

All in all, the art of boxing is to never go at your opponents rhythm, dictate your own pace, if it's not working, change it up, and is China out of options? You tell me, with a world of possibilities, the strong will never be out of options, again side effect of being, you know, great.

Also being the world's biggest dictatorship hell-hole, we kind of have to rely on actions rather than words, so we are not short on experience of taking action.

 

[SvenSvensonov]

America's pivot to Asia, America to commit 60% of it's fleet to Asian Pacific, Asian Pacific is a major interest to America.....

All we been hearing is the American pivot to Asian pacific, but almost nothing of China's pivot to the world. To be fair, much has been said of China's activies in Africa, South America, Europe and Asia, but it hasn't really been discussed the effects of these efforts.

Just to be clear, this isn't a plan to pivot, it's more of a side effect of massive growth and being the world's biggest trading nation, and maybe the world's biggest industrial power, and soon to be service power. (Many say China isn't service oriented or software and medical expertise are not the best, this is false, it just we are a major power here, bigger than pretty much anyone, except the Us and maybe Japan. It just so happens, our industrial power is far bigger than anyone in the world that in comparison it is small.)


What this would mean is that China will soon be, and already is in some areas, a major player in the world. Things cannot be done without China now and especially in the future, that is a reality of things now. Some have suggested America, and the world can go on without China, if they mean they will still exist on the map, than yes, but if they mean economically not dead, then anybody that's ever been fired or laid off should also be fine and EI is a waste of tax payer dollars.

What this would mean to China's overall strategy in Asia and beyond is simple, America is encircling China with Asia, we will simply jump out of the encirclement and "encircle" America with the world.

The one thing we are counting on is that America has interests everywhere, and America not only need to protect those interests, but also to expand them. We are also counting on the fact the world isn't all sunshine and rainbows, at some point, someone will hurt american interests, and with China lurking in the shadows, they have one more option than simply listening to America.

An interesting example to consider is the "win" that America got with the environment deal with China. I have no doubt China will do what the deal stipulates and more with or without it, but just this one thing is clear, America cannot ignore what will soon become her only real peer in the world. In a world of a thousand monkeys(no racism here, wouldn't declare this if not on this forum), can America catch them all, all by themselves. Even if they could they would exhaust all their resources, not to mention there is a new forest in town and it's open for business.

Now let's revisit the "China is stupid for making enemies all around," we got the only friend that matters, America. We may not like each other, but we sure as hell would need each other, and since we never had much interest to begin with world wide, as we expand in all the places that don't hate us and need us, America would need to make up its mind.

Would America continue to pour massive resources into the Asian Pacific region? Or just make it one of the interest areas rather than THE interest area.


Even without pouring resources into the Asian Pacific region, there are things only another great power can do, like cutting off all possible options and forcing someone to the table. With the demise of the USSR, America became the sole option, but China is increasingly becoming an option to the world, only a matter of time now before we expand in such a way that our influence must be considered. Again, side effect of a major economy.

All in all, the art of boxing is to never go at your opponents rhythm, dictate your own pace, if it's not working, change it up, and is China out of options? You tell me, with a world of possibilities, the strong will never be out of options, again side effect of being, you know, great.

Also being the world's biggest dictatorship hell-hole, we kind of have to rely on actions rather than words, so we are not short on experience of taking action.

Unless you're speaking about financial opportunities, which having global financial interests isn't unique to anyone, I would suggest that the reason we haven't heard about a "China Pivot" is because there actually isn't one.

Sure China is becoming active in the Indian Ocean, and it has been, but it's presence is limited to piracy. Still no concrete basing agreements, it's even facing push back from India in Sri Lanka and the Maldives. Myanmar too is countering Chinese influence via the US. China has troops in Africa, but that's a paltry force compared to what the US and France have, heck even Japan has a large contingent!

In Europe It's Chinese business, and the occasional offering from Greece and Cyprus, but nothing concrete on the military or political front, even in the Balkans, in South America too. In Central Asia China enjoys economic ties, but not a military presence, even the regional cooperation agreements such as the SCO are limited in their scope and focus mainly on counter-terrorism.

I'm not sure about a China pivot, but given the recent new-found cooperation between nations like the Philippines and Vietnam or Norway and Australia or Japan and India, it doesn't seem China's pivot to the world is working in the SCS.

I don't know, maybe somethings are going on that I don't see, but in military terms China's Pivot to the world isn't happening.

 

[Aepsilons]

@Genesis - sama,

China has global outreach and interests, so it is only natural to materialize defense appropriations to protect said interests. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I support an active Chinese policy in the high seas, and the more integrated China's military is with global partners in fighting factors that cause instability and limit trade, the more stable the world is. Given our coalesced interests, it is a welcome sight.



Regards,
@Nihonjin1051

 

[Genesis]

Unless you're speaking about financial opportunities, which having global financial interests isn't unique to anyone, I would suggest that the reason we haven't heard about a "China Pivot" is because there actually isn't one.

What do you mean unless, when did I mention military? If it was military I would have posted in the Chinese defence section.

Financial interests, everyone has them. When I'm quite sure Shell's financial interests and yours are quite different, and while both financial one can translate to more concrete actions than the other, I'll let you figure out which one.

Sure China is becoming active in the Indian Ocean, and it has been, but it's presence is limited to piracy. China has troops in Africa, but that's a paltry force compared to what the US and France have, heck even Japan has a large contingent!

Troops can be added, 700 just made its way to Africa, China is on the 20th or something naval patrol to Africa, all those can be easily increased and in quite short amount of time too.

The key is money. You think Chinese input in Africa isn't important? We are one of the biggest investors in the world and the biggest trading partner.

What can France offer, they may be developed, but they are no closer to a Super Power than I am to Lebron in Basketball skills.

If you think America can do everything by yourselves with your allies, great, but evidence suggest you can't.

In Europe It's Chinese business, and the occasional offering from Greece and Cyprus, but nothing concrete on the military or political front, even in the Balkans, in South America too. In Central Asia China enjoys economic ties, but not a military presence, even the regional cooperation agreements such as the SCO are limited in their scope and focus mainly on counter-terrorism.

So.....? Economic is what's important, unless America's solution to everything is war, then military is but one part, a very small part of the equation.

I'm not sure about a China pivot, but given the recent new-found cooperation between nations like the Philippines and Vietnam or Norway and Australia or Japan and India, it doesn't seem China's pivot to the world is working in the SCS.

I don't know, maybe somethings are going on that I don't see, but in military terms China's Pivot to the world isn't happening.

How do you define working? Is there a war right now? Is China's economy going down the drain because of it? Is China forced into anything? Is China stopped from building up economy and military? Is China incapable of ever changing a nation's mind?

Bottom line, is China losing at the moment?

Besides did you even read my post? I specifically said to jump out of the encirclement and going at our own pace instead of yours, even if it did like you said, it's going from bad to worst, so what? We will simply finish what we are doing and circle back.

What's the worst these nations you mentioned can do to us, even if we neglect it, which we aren't.

Why would it be in military terms? If I have 100,000 dollars, that's a S-class. Military is just a side product of the economy. An economic power don't have to be a military power, but a military power has to be an economic power. If Chinese engines don't work, what about 10 billion? What about 50 billion? How about 100 billion dollars? At some point it will work. Oakland As never won remember, money ball is not the Yankees.

@Genesis - sama,

China has global outreach and interests, so it is only natural to materialize defense appropriations to protect said interests. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I support an active Chinese policy in the high seas, and the more integrated China's military is with global partners in fighting factors that cause instability and limit trade, the more stable the world is. Given our coalesced interests, it is a welcome sight.



Regards,
@Nihonjin1051

that is not what this is about, maybe I should spend more than 10 minutes writing these things.

America's got middle east problems, European problems, and South America and African problems. It doesn't have to have them, but being the sole super power it does.

China don't even need to translate our economic clout into anything concrete, just the fact we can offer an alternative, forces America's hand. Like Ukraine, like Sudan.

Or even global warming, world financial system, and all that, can America really do it without China? Maybe, but it would be more difficult and seeing the political landscape of America right now, how much political capital does a sitting president really have anyway.

Bottom line, America would need to make a choice, advance its ally's interests or have China's help? Obviously I don't think America would abandon its allies completely, but would America feel the Philippines controlling as a couple of rocks is as important as say something China help achieve?

We don't know. Either way we have time and tries, can anyone be sure it would come up heads every time?

 

[Aepsilons]

What do you mean unless, when did I mention military? If it was military I would have posted in the Chinese defence section.

Financial interests, everyone has them. When I'm quite sure Shell's financial interests and yours are quite different, and while both financial one can translate to more concrete actions than the other, I'll let you figure out which one.




Troops can be added, 700 just made its way to Africa, China is on the 20th or something naval patrol to Africa, all those can be easily increased and in quite short amount of time too.

The key is money. You think Chinese input in Africa isn't important? We are one of the biggest investors in the world and the biggest trading partner.

What can France offer, they may be developed, but they are no closer to a Super Power than I am to Lebron in Basketball skills.

If you think America can do everything by yourselves with your allies, great, but evidence suggest you can't.



So.....? Economic is what's important, unless America's solution to everything is war, then military is but one part, a very small part of the equation.



How do you define working? Is there a war right now? Is China's economy going down the drain because of it? Is China forced into anything? Is China stopped from building up economy and military? Is China incapable of ever changing a nation's mind?

Bottom line, is China losing at the moment?

Besides did you even read my post? I specifically said to jump out of the encirclement and going at our own pace instead of yours, even if it did like you said, it's going from bad to worst, so what? We will simply finish what we are doing and circle back.

What's the worst these nations you mentioned can do to us, even if we neglect it, which we aren't.

Why would it be in military terms? If I have 100,000 dollars, that's a S-class. Military is just a side product of the economy. An economic power don't have to be a military power, but a military power has to be an economic power. If Chinese engines don't work, what about 10 billion? What about 50 billion? How about 100 billion dollars? At some point it will work. Oakland As never won remember, money ball is not the Yankees.


that is not what this is about, maybe I should spend more than 10 minutes writing these things.

America's got middle east problems, European problems, and South America and African problems. It doesn't have to have them, but being the sole super power it does.

China don't even need to translate our economic clout into anything concrete, just the fact we can offer an alternative, forces America's hand. Like Ukraine, like Sudan.

Or even global warming, world financial system, and all that, can America really do it without China? Maybe, but it would be more difficult and seeing the political landscape of America right now, how much political capital does a sitting president really have anyway.

Bottom line, America would need to make a choice, advance its ally's interests or have China's help? Obviously I don't think America would abandon its allies completely, but would America feel the Philippines controlling as a couple of rocks is as important as say something China help achieve?

We don't know. Either way we have time and tries, can anyone be sure it would come up heads every time?

Such interesting and exciting times we live in, dear.

 

[Genesis]

Such interesting and exciting times we live in, dear.

oh great, I'm in the Miss America pageant.

 

[TheTruth]

@SvenSvensonov

China's pivot overseas has a number of aspects:
1) Actual investment in physical infrastructure, which the West never does.
2) Being of a different race and culture than the people who have robbed and raped the entire world for centuries. Japan and Korea benefit from this too in Africa, Latin America and the Mid East. Also not being Indian, which helps tremendously in South Asia.

China's pivot is extremely cost effective, unlike America's.

 

[Aepsilons]

oh great, I'm in the Miss America pageant.

mmhmm, you're gonna dance for me, dear?

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Pivot means move and counter move: American's Asia pivot is to counter China in Asia, China's World pivot is to counter US everywhere in every corners in the world, for now we use the financial means to earn influence and keep American's influence in Check in Africa, South America, Middle East, Afghanistan even EU, next China can have militarty cooperations with Nations that have bad tastes with US...and gradually we will have a fun geopolitcal game with US such as we're doing in Olympic: We start with some sports that we're good at such Ping Pong, Badmington,diving then we compete and beat Americans on sport events that they used to dominate such swiming and we have no hesitation to take American on it famous Basketball..same for Geopolitic...