China's JSHK makes breakthrough in T1000 carbon fibre development

[Bussard Ramjet]

All US produtcs that are on the no-sales-to-China list should be banned once China is able to produce same.


Rubbish。

It has been US practice to lift ban on sales to China of certain products once they are indigenously available in China.

The US should be denied of the Chinese market for such once-restricted products。

It is only fairplay。

Well, they probably then missed the memo on T800 then.
Also, once China is able to mass produce an equivalent level of fibre, I find it impossible that US can even compete. If you block the market then, US will have the reason to block its own market (Remember, they have blocked from exporting to you, but not from importing).

China wouldn't want to loose the chance of demolishing Toray, and taking major orders from Boeing and the likes, who still supply a lot to China.

 

[jhungary]

It is written in the second article posted above. US and Japan don't sell T800 and above. T1000 is the strongest of fibres.

E Glass is not the strongest out there, the strongest Fibregrass is S Class, Tensile strength at 2538

 

[war is peace]

Lie t-1000 isthe strongest of all .

 

[Jlaw]

E Glass is not the strongest out there, the strongest Fibregrass is S Class, Tensile strength at 2538

Are those in mass production?

Are the S Class fiber glass you mentioned the same as the carbon fiber the article is referring to?

 

[jhungary]

(T-800)

Lie t-1000 isthe strongest of all .

think what you like, but according to this website

Properties of Carbon Fiber Tubes

E Grass - 500 Ksi
E Composite - 257 Ksi
S Grass - 665 Ksi
S Composite - 342 Ksi

(Tensile Strength 800 MPa (T-800) = 116 Ksi)

Are those in mass production?

Are the S Class fiber glass you mentioned the same as the carbon fiber the article is referring to?

Think S-2 Composite is in mass production, but S Grass is limited to Aviation and military supplies only.

And yes, they are the same properties

 

[chauism]

(T-800)

think what you like, but according to this website

Properties of Carbon Fiber Tubes

E Grass - 500 Ksi
E Composite - 257 Ksi
S Grass - 665 Ksi
S Composite - 342 Ksi

(Tensile Strength 800 MPa (T-800) = 116 Ksi)



Think S-2 Composite is in mass production, but S Grass is limited to Aviation and military supplies only.

And yes, they are the same properties

Maybe you should update your data on this. T-1000G's ultimate tensile strength is clearly much stronger than S-glass fibers

unit in MPa
E-Glass N/A 1500 for laminates,3450 for fibers alone 2.57
S-Glass N/A 4710 2.48
Carbon fiber N/A 1600 for laminates, 4137 for fibers alone 1.75
Carbon fiber (Toray T1000G) (the strongest man-made fibres) 6370 fibre alone

Ultimate tensile strength - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lie t-1000 isthe strongest of all .

So he wouldn't be wrong calling this a lie

 

[jhungary]

Maybe you should update your data on this. T-1000G's ultimate tensile strength is clearly much stronger than S-glass fibers

unit in MPa
E-Glass N/A 1500 for laminates,3450 for fibers alone 2.57
S-Glass N/A 4710 2.48
Carbon fiber N/A 1600 for laminates, 4137 for fibers alone 1.75
Carbon fiber (Toray T1000G) (the strongest man-made fibres) 6370 fibre alone

Ultimate tensile strength - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


So he wouldn't be wrong calling this a lie

Maybe you should learn something about material science. I don't know if you actually know this or trying to manipulate the data so it present the Toray is the strongest Carbon Polymer there are, I don't know, but to the ignorant few. Here is why the user above is wrong on his account

Quote from the Wikipedia page

Tensile strengths are rarely used in the design of ductile members, but they are important in brittle members. They are tabulated for common materials such as alloys, composite materials, ceramics, plastics, and wood.

Saying T-1000 Toray is the strongest due to its Ultimate Tensile Strength is a misgiven, as Ultimate Tensile strength rarely used or considered for ductile members, they are considered when you are talking about brittle member

And do tell me which family does Carbon Fibre belong to? Ductile or Brittle?

And here is why the ultimate tensile strength is NOT relevant in Polymer like carbon fibre

On the graph, The point 1 represent the Ultimate Tensile strength, which is the point when the polymer in test fractured. (ie the sample totally broke clean when pulled from both sides) Point 3 is yield point, for which the sample started to deform

However, due to the properties of polymers (which Carbon Fibre are considered polymer) Carbon Fibre will go throughs 2 stage before fracture, instead of simply fracture after pull to Brittle element. The 2 stage will be elastic deformation and plastic deformation.

When a Carbon fibre started being pull, the first stage of deformation is elastic, which the fibre will deform but the deformation is not permanent, at that stage if the tensile force was negated, the fibre will "bounced" back to the original form and the physical properties and physical appearance will not change (Well, they still change a bit but not significantly)

When the Carbon fibre started to enter the Plastic stage, the stress cause a structural failure and the fibre will deform completely and with a physical properties and physical appearance altered, that piece of fibre no longer have the properties of the original fibre, and caused structural failing. Polymer are essential "Broke" at that point.

While stage 3 is the actual fracture, which is the final force applied to separate the fibre intermolecular bonding. Which can be different according to different sample according to their particle properties

Look at the following Video

The sample have pass the "Failure point" when the polymer deform, not when it fracture.

In fact, for ductile material, the point of UTS represent the strength intermolecular bond, which Toray can be said the Hardest (Due to the high intermolecular bond figure) carbon fibre there were in the market, but cannot be said the "Strongest" polymer. That is determined by the Yield Point, where the fibre started to yield to pressure and deform

Imagine this, you use carbon fibre on a plane, would you think the flight stop becoming aerodynamically sustainable when the Carbon Fibre on the wing started to permanently deform, or it only not aerodynamically stable when the fibre fracture?

You can't just take a random figure to prove something is strongest, when that is the only figure favour you. UTS are not relevant in ductile material.

Deformation (engineering) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ductility - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[chauism]

Maybe you should learn something about material science. I don't know if you actually know this or trying to manipulate the data so it present the Toray is the strongest Carbon Polymer there are, I don't know, but to the ignorant few. Here is why the user above is wrong on his account

Now you are grasping the last straw here. You are the one who brought up Tensile Strength to prove that S-glass is stronger than T-800 with UTS first, if you want to compare yield strength which you implied later please provide the data for both S-glass and T-1000G. Even from your own links the data they use are UTS
Properties of Carbon Fiber Tubes
"GLOSSARY OF TERMS
Tensile Modulus:Tensile modulus can be used as an indicator of the stiffness of a part. It is basically the applied tensile stress, based on the force and cross-sectional area, divided by the observed strain at that stress level. It is generally constant before the material approaches the point at which permanent deformation will begin to occur. It is most easily observed as the slope of the stress-strain curve prior to the yield point. In our chart the tensile modulus is shown as (MSI), or million pounds per square inch. Tensile modulus can also be shown as (10^6 PSI).
Tensile Strength:The ultimate tensile strength is defined as the maximum stress that a material can withstand before failure in tension. Values are determined by an extension test. A simple example of tension would be the rope used in tension during a tug-of-war. Tensile strength tests are a common way to compare the strength of two materials. In the chart above tensile strength is displayed as (KSI), or thousand pounds per square inch. Carbon fiber is used most efficiently when loaded in tension. When a tube is loaded in bending some of the fibers experience tension while others experience compression.
Specific Tensile Modulus:Specific tensile modulus can best be described as the stiffness to weight ratio of a given material. In our chart this number is determined by dividing the tensile modulus by its specific gravity (weight). It is an easy way to tell which material gives you more stiffness with the least weight penalty. Kevlar is the only material that even comes close to carbon fiber.
Specific Tensile Strength:Specific tensile strength is the strength to weight ratio of a given material. In our chart this number is determined by dividing the tensile strength by its specific gravity (weight).
Specific Gravity:Specific gravity is the heaviness of a substance compared to that of water, and it is expressed without units. If something is 7.82 times as heavy as an equal volume of water (such as 1090 steel is) its specific gravity is 7.82. Now you can really see how light carbon fiber is compared to other materials.
Density:One of the fundamental properties of any material is its heaviness. In solids we think of materials like cork or styrofoam as being very light and lead and iron as being heavy. Actually we have to consider the volumes in this discussion. We could have a ton of styrofoam, or a half-gram of lead. It depends on how large a sample we are using. To calculate heaviness or density we divide the mass of material in pounds by its volume in cubic inches. Density could also be expressed as grams per cubic centimeter (g/cm3)"

Also from your own source which it states that carbon fiber has much high Tensile Modulus that material approaches the point at which permanent deformation will begin to occur. Carbon Fiber's 33 Psi vs S-glass 12.5.

Quote from the Wikipedia page



Saying T-1000 Toray is the strongest due to its Ultimate Tensile Strength is a misgiven, as Ultimate Tensile strength rarely used or considered for ductile members, they are considered when you are talking about brittle member

And do tell me which family does Carbon Fibre belong to? Ductile or Brittle?

And here is why the ultimate tensile strength is NOT relevant in Polymer like carbon fibre

On the graph, The point 1 represent the Ultimate Tensile strength, which is the point when the polymer in test fractured. (ie the sample totally broke clean when pulled from both sides) Point 3 is yield point, for which the sample started to deform

However, due to the properties of polymers (which Carbon Fibre are considered polymer) Carbon Fibre will go throughs 2 stage before fracture, instead of simply fracture after pull to Brittle element. The 2 stage will be elastic deformation and plastic deformation.

When a Carbon fibre started being pull, the first stage of deformation is elastic, which the fibre will deform but the deformation is not permanent, at that stage if the tensile force was negated, the fibre will "bounced" back to the original form and the physical properties and physical appearance will not change (Well, they still change a bit but not significantly)

When the Carbon fibre started to enter the Plastic stage, the stress cause a structural failure and the fibre will deform completely and with a physical properties and physical appearance altered, that piece of fibre no longer have the properties of the original fibre, and caused structural failing. Polymer are essential "Broke" at that point.

While stage 3 is the actual fracture, which is the final force applied to separate the fibre intermolecular bonding. Which can be different according to different sample according to their particle properties

Look at the following Video

The sample have pass the "Failure point" when the polymer deform, not when it fracture.

In fact, for ductile material, the point of UTS represent the strength intermolecular bond, which Toray can be said the Hardest (Due to the high intermolecular bond figure) carbon fibre there were in the market, but cannot be said the "Strongest" polymer. That is determined by the Yield Point, where the fibre started to yield to pressure and deform

Imagine this, you use carbon fibre on a plane, would you think the flight stop becoming aerodynamically sustainable when the Carbon Fibre on the wing started to permanently deform, or it only not aerodynamically stable when the fibre fracture?

You can't just take a random figure to prove something is strongest, when that is the only figure favour you. UTS are not relevant in ductile material.

Deformation (engineering) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ductility - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is why I say that you are grasping the last straw, because fibers must be made into composites to create useful real-world forms. So to answer your question, yes, in their composite form mostly set in epoxy, they are brittle. Not to mention carbon fiber has much lower density than S-Glass which means carbon fiber is lighter.

You whole argument earlier should be T-1000 isn't the strongest anymore since last year toray start producing T-1100 already.