Can Pakistan Lead Afghan Peace Process?

[Rahil khan]

Haha, Afghanistan will in the next 8 years produce enough food to not only meet our own demands, but also exporting it to your hungry population.


Mind your own ****.


Yeah the ball is in our court know, and so is the joker.Goshta showed you guys how the future will be.

Haha, Afghanistan will in the next 8 years produce enough food to not only meet our own demands, but also exporting it to your hungry population.
.

And do you think that the world give a damn about what you guys think, all those drones are you answer.Pakistan is seen as a hole in the earth everywhere you go.


Of course you know, with all those **** bombers you have sent, you must know our us very well.

And you brought colors up

Clearly you have crossed the red line. Your posts are reported to the MODS...

 

[Audio]

Can Pakistan lead a Pakistani peace process?

 

[Armstrong]

Can Pakistan lead a Pakistani peace process?

If you don't behave yourself I'd accelerate my plans on annexing Slovenia !

Yes....yes, as my Brother, you can be my Right Hand man over there !

 

[Armstrong]

If they had any shame,even a tiny bit one could be Polite but it seems they are lack it genetically...

Be that as it may - Aurat kiii izaaat humm peiii Laazim haiii !

 

[chauvunist]

Be that as it may - Aurat kiii izaaat humm peiii Laazim haiii !

Ok Butt sahab...Jaisay aap ke Merzi...

 

[Counter-Errorist]

@RescueRanger - Let it go man, he's not worth it

 

[RescueRanger]

@RescueRanger - Let it go man, he's not worth it

I am not upset just amazed at some of the people on this forum and their way of thinking.

 

[MilSpec]

in 1996 we only recognized Taliban's Govt because they were form by Majority i.e Pashtuns...If we had supported them before 1996 you could have seen them in Power much Earlier...

P:S...No one gives a $hit what you or World Thinks because what needs to be done or going to be done will be done at the end ...You can Eat your Heart now or save it for the Later,Ball is in your court...

You do realize with all the might of military backing of PA, the taliban was browbeaten both in herat and kabuls seige by rag tag forces of Massoud almost 1/10 in size...

 

[chauvunist]

You do realize with all the might of military backing of PA, the taliban was browbeaten both in herat and kabuls seige by rag tag forces of Massoud almost 1/10 in size...

Sir if i am not Mistaken Ahmad Shah Masood was pushed to Panj Sher Region and was on the verge of Defeat before U.S Attacked Afghanistan...Not to Forget Massoud was constantly receiving supplies from Iran-Russia...

 

[pakistani342]

You do realize with all the might of military backing of PA, the taliban was browbeaten both in herat and kabuls seige by rag tag forces of Massoud almost 1/10 in size...

huh ???? I must have been in a coma during the 1990s ... and imagined an alternative reality ...

Is this how the Northern alliance sees the sequence of events?

 

[MilSpec]

huh ???? I must have been in a coma during the 1990s ... and imagined an alternative reality ...

Is this how the Northern alliance sees the sequence of events?

quite possible... go ahead and refute it

As the Islamic State had been able to consolidate control over the capital, the government took steps to restore law and order. Courts started to work again also convicting individuals inside government troops who had committed crimes.[57][not in citation given] Massoud initiated a nationwide political process with the goal of national consolidation and democratic elections. He arranged a conference in three parts uniting political and cultural personalities, governors, commanders, clergymen and representatives, in order to reach a lasting agreement. Massoud, like most people in Afghanistan, saw this conference as a small hope for democracy and for free elections. His favourite for candidacy to the presidency was Dr. Mohammad Yusuf, the first democratic prime minister under Zahir Shah, the former king. In the first meeting representatives from 15 different Afghan provinces met, in the second meeting there were already 25 provinces participating.
Massoud also invited the Taliban to join the peace process wanting them to be a partner in providing stability to Afghanistan during such a process.[7] Against the advice of his security personnel, he went to talk to some Taliban leaders in Maidan Shar, Taliban territory. The Taliban declined to join the peace process leading towards general elections. When Massoud returned to Kabul unharmed, the Taliban leader who had received him as his guest paid with his life: he was killed by other senior Taliban for failing to assassinate Massoud while the possibility had presented itself.[citation needed]
Neighboring Pakistan exerted strong influence over the Taliban. A publication with the George Washington University describes: "Initially, the Pakistanis supported ... Gulbuddin Hekmatyar ... When Hekmatyar failed to deliver for Pakistan, the administration began to support a new movement of religious students known as the Taliban."[58] Many analysts like Amin Saikal describe the Taliban as developing into a proxy force for Pakistan's regional interests which the Taliban decline.[36] The Taliban started shelling Kabul in early 1995 but were defeated by forces of the Islamic State government under Ahmad Shah Massoud.[54] (see video) Amnesty International, referring to the Taliban offensive, wrote in a 1995 report:
"This is the first time in several months that Kabul civilians have become the targets of rocket attacks and shelling aimed at residential areas in the city."[54]
—Amnesty International, 1995
The Taliban's early victories in 1994 were followed by a series of defeats that resulted in heavy losses.[48] The Taliban's first major offensive against the important western city of Herat, under the rule of Islamic state ally Ismail Khan, in February 1995 was defeated when Massoud airlifted 2,000 of his own core forces from Kabul to help defend Herat.[59] Ahmed Rashid writes: "The Taliban had now been decisively pushed back on two fronts by the government and their political and military leadership was in disarray. Their image as potential peacemakers was badly dented, for in the eyes of many Afghans they had become nothing more than just another warlord party."[59] International observers already speculated that the Taliban as a country-wide organization might have "run its course".[60]
Mullah Omar, however, consolidated his control inside the Taliban and with foreign help rebuild and equipped his forces.[61] Pakistan increased its support to the Taliban.[36][62] Its military advisers oversaw the restructuring of Taliban forces. The country provided armored pick-up trucks and other military equipment.[60] Saudi Arabia provided the funding.[63] Furthermore, there was a massive influx of 25,000 new Taliban fighters, many of them recruited in Pakistan.[61] This enabled the Taliban to capture Herat to the west of Kabul in a surprise attack against the forces of Ismail Khan in September 1995. A nearly one-year siege and bombardment campaign against Kabul, however, was again defeated by Massoud's forces.[63]


References

53 Amin Saikal. Modern Afghanistan: A History of Struggle and Survival (2006 1st ed.). I.B. Tauris & Co Ltd., London New York. p. 216. ISBN 1-85043-437-9.
54 Amnesty International. "DOCUMENT - AFGHANISTAN: FURTHER INFORMATION ON FEAR FOR SAFETY AND NEW CONCERN: DELIBERATE AND ARBITRARY KILLINGS: CIVILIANS IN KABUL." 16 November 1995 Accessed at: Document - Afghanistan: Further information on fear for safety and new concern: deliberate and arbitrary killings: Civilians in Kabul | Amnesty International
55 "Afghanistan: escalation of indiscriminate shelling in Kabul". International Committee of the Red Cross. 1995.
56 Matinuddin, Kamal, The Taliban Phenomenon, Afghanistan 1994–1997, Oxford University Press, (1999), pp. 25–6
57 BBC Newsnight 1995 on YouTube

58 "The September 11th Sourcebooks Volume VII: The Taliban File". gwu.edu. 2003.
59 Ahmed Rashid. Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil and Fundamentalism in Central Asia. Yale Nota Bene Books. p. 36. ISBN 978-0300089028.
60 "PAKISTAN'S SUPPORT OF THE TALIBAN". Human Rights Watch. 2000.
61 Ahmed Rashid. Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil and Fundamentalism in Central Asia. Yale Nota Bene Books. p. 39. ISBN 978-0300089028.
62"Documents Detail Years of Pakistani Support for Taliban, Extremists". George Washington University. 2007.
63 a b Ahmed Rashid. Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil and Fundamentalism in Central Asia. Yale Nota Bene Books. ISBN 978-0300089028.

 

[pakistani342]

quite possible... go ahead and refute it

I think the point a previous poster and I are making is that the Taliban essentially pushed the all other belligerents to about 5% of Afghanistan and brought a peace (if brutal one to Afghanistan).

Stated a bit differently: Barefooted, illiterate, misogynist mullahs were able to dislodge hardened gurilla fighters such as the HIG, JI, etc. and force them to about 5% of Afghanistan's territory?

Now just to make sure -- we're not using say Saddam's standard of victory where he claimed to have defeated 30 nations (was it) in the first gulf war.

 

[MilSpec]

Stated a bit differently: Barefooted, illiterate, misogynist mullahs were able to dislodge hardened gurilla fighters such as the HIG, JI, etc. and force them to about 5% of Afghanistan's territory?

although this might be derailling the thread, the fact remains that albeit initial success against local commanders, when taliban forces were pitted against Massoud and dostum, they were handed down severe defeat by a substantially smaller but well trained force, which led to fresh recruitment from pakistan along with substantial Military backing from pakistani army to dislodge Massouds forces, and when we are still on massouds topic, you might recall, neither the soviets, nor the ISI backed taliban was ever able to take panjshir valley....

 

[pakistani342]

although this might be derailling the thread, the fact remains that albeit initial success against local commanders, when taliban forces were pitted against Massoud and dostum, they were handed down severe defeat by a substantially smaller but well trained force, which led to fresh recruitment from pakistan along with substantial Military backing from pakistani army to dislodge Massouds forces, and when we are still on massouds topic, you might recall, neither the soviets, nor the ISI backed taliban was ever able to take panjshir valley....

I think we're talking past each other.

I think the point being *emphasized* by the other poster and myself is that the Taliban did defeat/dislodge the victors of the Afghan/Soviet war and reduced them to 5% or of the country whatever the intermediate tactical positions may have been. No one is disagreeing with the litany of facts and associated dates (although just I've skimmed them) you have splurged in your previous post.

A point that I decided not to make earlier but has relevance is that the Pakistani Army which is overwhelmingly the most disciplined and equipped force in the AfPak theater (excluding the Western forces) has fared questionably against the related (but different) phenomenon of the Pakistani Taliban.

The meta point here being that the Taliban (both Afghan and Pakistani) is a very tenacious belligerent despite whatever tactical setback they may suffer.

To cite a famous exchange from a different era and place:
-- On the 25 of April 1975, Colonel Harry G. Summers, Jr., then Chief of the U.S. Delegation quipped to the Vietnamese delegation: "You know you never defeated us on the battlefield”, sitting across the table Colonel Tu, Chief of the North Vietnamese Delegation replied: "That may be so, but it is also irrelevant." --

 

[RescueRanger]

Wow, people still debating this? gentlemen... There is a reason, the Afghan's do not want the U.S. to leave... Think past Kabul, beyond the reach of the ANA bastion and you will find your answer.

The Afghan military is entirely dependent on US backing for its operations, from the payment of troops to fuel, food, ammunition, intelligence and air support. This year alone the Pentagon is supplying $135 million in fuel to keep the Afghan military on the road.

US Steps Up War of Words with Afghan Puppet Regime | Global Research