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Can an Islamic State be Secular?

Both Islamic State and Secular States are totally opposite to each other, what similarity do they have.

Islamic State brings religion into every aspect of governance in the country and Secular States dont bother with any religion in the governance.

Islamic state is like the Anti-Christ of Secular States.
 
Islamic state is like the Anti-Christ of Secular States.

Anti-Christ is not a secular term. A true secular state is free from any kind of religious prejudice. Religious names and references are expunged from the government documents in a secular state. Secular governments look to central bank instead of a central church or heaven for the solutions.
 
Anti-Christ is not a secular term. A true secular state is free from any kind of religious prejudice. Religious names and references are expunged from the government documents in a secular state. Secular governments look to central bank instead of a central church or heaven for the solutions.

" Anti - Christ" was for quotation sake and clear understanding only.
 
QUOTE=Dr.Evil;975035]" Anti - Christ" was for quotation sake and clear understanding only.[/QUOTE]

Well by definition Anti Christ , is either hindu or Jewish people

Jewish people because jews don't recognize Jesus , you ask any jew and he will say no I don't recognize Jesus that is a true definition of Anti Christ. Similarly Hindus , don't belive in Jesus and they get along with Jews

Muslims we do belive in Jesus , and understand bible did come to Jesus as well just that its been heavily modernized - or secularized what is the word ...

Again , Islam has always been secular , we housed Jews , christians and other faiths during our rule.

What else can we do ? :what:


THERE IS NO 100% SECULAR STATE --- its an idealogy a perfect world which does not exists , people like to claim they are secular but one man' secular state is another man's rights abuse
 
Again , Islam has always been secular , we housed Jews , christians and other faiths during our rule.

What else can we do ? :what:

When was Islam Secular in the true sense, When Non-Muslims have to pay a special tax ?

As far Muslims kings was concerned it was more of a practical solution ( so as not to create too much trouble in their feifdoms) rather than magnanimous Secular nature of those Islamic rulers.
 
When was Islam Secular in the true sense, When Non-Muslims have to pay a special tax ?

As far Muslims kings was concerned it was more of a practical solution ( so as not to create too much trouble in their feifdoms) rather than magnanimous Secular nature of those Islamic rulers.


Sorry evil bhaiya , aje ki liya itni his religious topic , I am waiting for more F16 C/D news
and J10B news, seculurism can wait now
 
Islam is a Liberator & a Secular religion in its own as Islam is not a Religion but a Deen which means a system.

If secular ideas mean the Freedom of all kinds then Islam is secular itself but the modern Secularism = La - deeniyat which rips Religion from the Mainstream and it is not what Islam teaches.

Sharia Law is the right solution to Pakistan - not a version of TTP - not a version of any fanatical Mullah but the True Essenes of Islamic system with democratic values.

I truly do not want Pakistan to become a Bikini Land but a place where everyone has freedoms of all kind while taking care of their Religious and Cultural values.

Regards: :pakistan:

Excellently Said bro....Islamic Shariah Guarantees the freedom of all religions with respect for all religions.....:pakistan::pdf:
 
When was Islam Secular in the true sense, When Non-Muslims have to pay a special tax ?

As far Muslims kings was concerned it was more of a practical solution ( so as not to create too much trouble in their feifdoms) rather than magnanimous Secular nature of those Islamic rulers.

It's a tax just like zakat is a tax for muslims:

The Jizya or poll tax is a personal tax levied on non-muslims in a Muslim State, and as such it resembles the Zakat (Alms Tax) which is levied on Muslim citizens by the Muslim State. The poll tax is levied so that all the capable non-Muslim citizens of the State can contribute, each from his own money, to the general welfare of the State, and that in return for this, they can enjoy their rights as nationals of this State, including compensation from the Muslim Exchecquer when they are in need.

Valour and mercy are not forgotten here, as the poll tax is not collected from the weak and poor. In his message to the people of Hira, Khaled Ibn Al-Walid says, "When a person is too old to work or suffers a handicap, or when he falls into poverty, he is free from the dues of the pull tax; his sustenance is provided by the Muslim Exchequer." In his book "Al-Kharaj," Abu Yusuf says, "No Jizya is due on females or young infants."

When the dues of the poll tax are paid by these people, they have to be supported, protected, granted a freedom of faith, and treated on a footing of justice and equality with muslims. They are called "Zimmis" (the Arabic origin, "Zimma," meaning security, protection and custody) because the said rights are guaranteed by God and His Apostle, and such was the custom the Moslem leaders followed in dealing with the Zimmins. In his book "Futooh Al-Buldan" (Conquests of Countries), Al-Balathiri comments on this saying, "Khaled Ibn Al-Walid, on entering Damascus as a conqueror, offered a guarantee of security to its people and their properties and churches, and promised that the wall of the city would not be pulled down, and none of their houses be demolished. It was a guarantee of God, he said, and of the Caliph and all believers to keep them safe and secure on condition they paid the dues of the Jizya."

The poll tax is a small sum of money indeed when compared to the services the Muslim State offers to protect the Zimmis and support the army in charge to keep them safe from others' assaults. In his book "Al-Kharaj," Abu Yusuf gives the following reports: "After getting on peaceful terms with the people of Syria and collecting the dues of the Jizya and the Kharaj, news reached Abu 'Ubeida that the Byzantines had amassed their troops to attack him. The effect of this was great on Abu 'Ubeida and the Muslims. He sent messages to the rulers of cities with whose citizens he had made peace, asking them to return to their subjects the paid dues of the Jizya and Kharaj, with an instruction to tell these: 'We hereby return to you the money you have paid us, because of the news of the enemy troops amassed to attack us, but, if God grants us victory against the enemy, we will keep up to the promise and covenant between us.' When this was delivered to the Zimmis and their money returned to them, they told the muslims: May God bring you back to us and grant you victory over them!"

In his book, "The Spirit of Laws," on dealing with the taxes levied by the government, Montesqieu says, "Such levied taxes were one reason for the strange facility which the muslims faced during conquests. People, then, preferred -- instead of being subjected to an endless series of fines which entered the rich imagination of greedy rulers -- to submit to the payment of a minimal tax which can be fulfilled and paid with ease."
 
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Turkey is an example of secular Muslim country.. when i went there i saw in the mosque there were only old men who were saying there prayers... hardly found any youth there in the mosques. When i was returning to Pakistan,in the flight the guy sitting next to me was drinking wine, i asked him are you a muslim..?, he replied yes.. then i asked him then why are you drinking wine.. he replied Oh this is good, you should also try.. i refused and then i said i cant believe you are a muslim.. well he showed me his ID card and that his religion was Islam.Maybe i was kid at that time , but i was shocked .

So people i do encourage secularism.. but maybe in the the process of perusing it we might not end up in a good corner, like maybe people here might get attracted to the bad part of it more.. this what i fear. Further i think the definition of secularism is bit vague in the minds of most people .

One of the most prime evils i see in most westren secular states is the loss of " Familly life " and young people not respecting there parents and elders. I hope we are not branding Naked Freedom in the light of secularism.

though i hate religious fanatics and conservative people to the core of myself but i do wonder that despite of there fundamentalism and conservativeness they did managed to controll some of the evil aspects which might break loos in a secular society. :agree:
 
jizya was a material proof of the non-Muslims' acceptance of subjection to the state and its laws, "just as for the inhabitants it was a concrete continuation of the taxes paid to earlier regimes."[6] In return, non-Muslim citizens were permitted to practice their faith, to enjoy a measure of communal autonomy, to be entitled to Muslim state's protection from outside aggression, to be exempted from military service and the Zakat as obligatory upon Muslim citizens.

Bolded portion shows another face of this Tax.
 
Secularism is the concept that government or other entities should exist separately from religion and/or religious beliefs.

In one sense, secularism may assert the right to be free from religious rule and teachings, and the right to freedom from governmental imposition of religion upon the people within a state that is neutral on matters of belief. (See also Separation of church and state and Laïcité.) In another sense, it refers to the view that human activities and decisions, especially political ones, should be based on evidence and fact unbiased by religious influence.

Pakistan is not secular by any stretch of the imagination.
 
Both Islamic State and Secular States are totally opposite to each other, what similarity do they have.


Islamic state is like the Anti-Christ of Secular States.
Mr.Evil...

True Words....
Secular state is like the Anti-christ of Islamic state....
 
WELL, I THINK AN ISLAMIC STATE CAN BE SECULAR, JUST BY GIVING EQUAL RIGHTS TO PEOPLE OF ALL RELEGION. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT MUSLIMS HAVE TO COMPROMISE WITH THEIR RELEGIOUS PRACTICES. SORRY, IF U THINK I SHOULD NOT HAVE COMMENTED.
 
Secularism is the concept that government or other entities should exist separately from religion and/or religious beliefs.

In one sense, secularism may assert the right to be free from religious rule and teachings, and the right to freedom from governmental imposition of religion upon the people within a state that is neutral on matters of belief. (See also Separation of church and state and Laïcité.) In another sense, it refers to the view that human activities and decisions, especially political ones, should be based on evidence and fact unbiased by religious influence.

Pakistan is not secular by any stretch of the imagination.

So i guess Religion has nothing to do with state affairs in a secular country.
Yes Pakistan is not but as the times progressing we will be there.. its an evolutionary process.
Can Israel be termed as secular state....??
 
When was Islam Secular in the true sense, When Non-Muslims have to pay a special tax ?

As far Muslims kings was concerned it was more of a practical solution ( so as not to create too much trouble in their feifdoms) rather than magnanimous Secular nature of those Islamic rulers.

There was a tax in Islam only when Non-believers were came in islamic state for the need of shelter and security against the enemies of humanity...

There is no tax in Islam for any non-believers if he is a national of Islamic state,,,tax can only be required for those who wants shelter in Islamic state as a visitor,,You can say them immigrants and when they became national then there is no need for tax...
If tax is illegal then why you are paying it in your land...
 

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