Blast in Pune

[AliFarooq]

Another conspiracy theory in the making..... good going

when you already have so many, one more won't make a big diffrence.

 

[deesu]

when you already have so many, one more won't make a big diffrence.

yes I agree, but one change in your statement required....
Instead of "you" change it to "we" and then say the same statement again...

 

[Naradmuni]

All the religious b@stards will be nailed down and shot in their a$ses point blank. We will avenge for sure.

 

[Cityboy]

Im is key suspect as of now

 

[Valiant_Soul]

You can definitely find statements by politicians and some government officials about the ISI and links with Taliban and crap of that variety. But then I can quote several instances of politicians and political commentators in other countries blaming India for genocides, occupation of illegal territory and so on. That is not important.

Please do, I would really like to know what other nations think about my nation. Although, please refer to those who do not have bilateral issues with India.

What is important is how different nations shape their policy with respect to your stance and your interests. India wants to use world opinion to isolate Pakistan in meaningful ways - not through mere statements. These 'meaningful' ways would be sanctions, blocking arms supplies, diplomatic boycots, curbs in economic activity, stoppage of project support from institutions like the ADB etc.

Everything you mentioned needs to be backed with source/link so we can discuss them. You can open new threads for each of them. Although I can tell you, if India did indulge in such activities, it would be and have been reactive in nature.

Statements are a dime a dozen, and political opinions are cheap.

That is your perspective, ours perspective is that they know what Pakistan has been up to and they admitted to it.

Now, with this in mind, please explain to me how Pakistan has been isolated, or why you think Pakistan's stance is not "believed".

Sure, I will.

1. Pakistan still being used as the primary conduit to supply ISAF (Whatever became of those central asian routes? Hmmm.)

Yes, why not. They do not have any direct confrontation with you on this issue. It is an issue between India and Pakistan. But at the same time, that in no way means that they can turn a blind eye to the other facts of the region.

2. The Pakistan Army still being called upon to be, alternatively, both the hammer and the anvil to ISAF's forces. Do you have close military coordination with someone you don't "believe" or have truly deep doubts about?

Doubts about what? What would they doubt you for what is the issue between India and Pakistan? BTW they are not completely convinced whether the dollars they are sending for the WoT is going to the right places or not.

State Dept. split over Pakistan aid

Do they trust you? No. Do they require your service? Yes. Your politicians have sold your nation and you have yet to realize that.

3. Pakistan continues to participate in international military exercises and is constantly invited by western, middle eastern and eastern nations in this regard.

So does Iran and Syria who are formally on the list of countries that sponsor terrorism. That does not exempts Pakistan of
its activities.

State Sponsors of Terrorism

4. Pakistan continues to participate in strong and growing economic partnerships with countries as diverse as the US, China, Iran, Turkey, the EU, Malaysia etc. A lessening of these being totally out of the question, trade, JVs and participation across almost all parameters has been increasing YoY. How can this be looked upon as the world "believing" India in its usually vicious claims about Pakistan?

What about them? India continued to have trade ties with Pakistan even after Parliament attack, in which it considers that Pakistan never cooperated to bring all schemers to justice that are hiding in Pakistan.

No nation believes that citizens of Pakistan want to do this to India. Why harm the citizens? And why would they leave their interest for a bilateral matter?

5. Basically, the entire world looking upon Kashmir as disputed territory. Remember, India's claim is that Kashmir is part of India. Pakistan's claim is that it is disputed territory. You would be hard pressed to find even a third the number of countries in India's camp as would agree with Pakistan's characterization of this issue.

They have no say on the issue. All of them, including China, have officially said that it is a bilateral matter.

And one can go on at length. But other than meaningless statements which are not reflected in official national policies, what can you point to that would substantiate your rather broad claim?

Astonishing, I only talked about official statements of those nations. No disrespect, but am I to consider that I am having a conversation with a novice? Because this a laughable statement.

India, Sir, has taken every opportunity during the last 63 years to destabilize and harm Pakistan. Whether it was refusing to give us our rightful share of resources at the time of partition - particularly military resources - or the refusal to honour UN resolutions prior to any 1965, Simla Accord or other issues, or the support of insurgents and terrorists on Pakistani soil, or diplomatic campaigns against Pakistan, or the nuclearization of South Asia at Pokhran, or the completely unprovoked nuclear tests of 1998, or the assistance to Mukti Bahini during 1971 etc., the crystal clear violation of the IWT (and PLEASE don't ask me "how" - I have replied to this specifically in 3 other threads you can search TechLahore IWT and get the answer) and on and on and on.

All that requires another thread to discuss. You claim you have replied but I have also seen how other members have also replied. I suggest you go re-read those threads or start new ones so we can discuss them. You did not make a single point in this paragraph that substantiates your claim.

I don't wish to debate the above issues with you because I know the gulf is way too wide. I am just telling you that your gracious statement about India meaning no harm to Pakistan when 80% of your army is at our borders, and in the context of the above history, is not going to find sympathetic ears in Pakistan. We have exactly ZERO trust in the Indian government, military and Indian policies. That is just a fact.

No you surely can, if you are willing to know the actual truth, not the one you have been taught by your rulers (not governments). But for that do open new threads.

Hyderabad was ruled by a Muslim who wanted to maintain an independent Muslim state. What happened there? India invaded it.

The last Nizam did not wanted to give up his rule, when it was clear that the world and especially India wanted to turn to the rule of democracy leaving behind monarchy. India made repeated persuasions to him before finally deciding to act. But not that India killed him or the people there, after that. And also geographically, it was not possible to have a monarchy in the center of the country while the rest was going to be a democracy. India's decision was correct and not even the people of Hyderabad will tell you otherwise.

Basically, the Indian argument boils down to the theory that any means of India obtaining control of a territory was legal, and everything else was illegal.

That is totally your perception and rightly a false one, and until you drop your anti-India sentiment and then judge her, you will continue to tread the wrong path.

Muslims were in majority in both Bengal and Punjab (overall), yet those states were divided. Kashmir had a significant muslim majority but ruled by a Hindu, so accession was legal in that case. Hyderabad was hindu majority (though not to the extent that Kashmir was muslim majority) but muslim ruled, so therefore the decision of the Nizam to stay independent had no weight and invasion by India was legal.

I think these discussions are done with, between Jinnah and Nehru. You need to think of what you have, not what you could have had. If we go into past, then why also not talk about Mughal invasion in India. Do Indians now talk about how Mughals invaded India and how much land they could have had or how many people they lost or how many temples and treasure do they lost?

Yes indeed. Everything you do is legal. And everything someone else does is illegal. And then you ask why we don't believe your pure intentions viz Pakistan.

Let me tell you one thing. If you want to live in this world with proper sight of it, you need to always be detached of any kind of emotion while analyzing such trivial stuffs. You might think that I am advocating for India because I am Indian, but in my view, if I would be like that, I would be deceiving my own self. All I ever try to pursue is truth. So no I do not think that India does everything right, in fact it does a lot of wrong things, but not as India as a whole, but Indians in particular. India, in my view, has rarely made any policy mistake, so much so that I have to consider them devilish.

Let's just face the facts. Kashmir was captured by India because Nehru was a Hindu Pandit from Kashmir and couldn't live with the thought of giving up his ancestral home. As simple as that. The man couldn't overcome his personal desire for the sake of peace in the sub continent. But then, overcoming personal desires was never a strong suit with him, as Edwina Mountbatten might confirm.

That confirms your emotional angle to the whole matter, and with that at the back of your mind (or anybody's mind) you can never come to the truth. It is your own opinion, and while I cannot say for sure what was going in the mind of Nehru, however, this cannot be the definite reason for which Kashmir was acceded to India.

The more important truth is that I o K is with India and P o K is with Pakistan. In my opinion, that is the biggest and most relevant truth. Lets just live with what we have, can we? But you won't, because you are simply not willing to understand that India is not your enemy. I think that hurts many of you, to think of peace with India.

The fact that it is not India who intends to snatch Pakistani land, but it is Pakistan who is willing to tear away Indian land and by any means, is what also remains a truth.

Let me refer you to this article:

Zardari admits terrorism nurtured by govt for tactical use.

As to the "you will lose more than you have", I assure you, if it comes to a full fledged conflict, India will lose exactly as much as Pakistan. And the answer in both cases will be 100%.

No comment, will lead to unnecessary flame war. Although, since you do acknowledge that Pakistan will loose 100%, are you willing to tread that path for Kashmir? Do you think that is a sane option? If you are going to respond emotionally, it is worthless. I do not want to talk to grown-up children.

I mean no disrespect, but the first sentence above truly made me laugh. After reading your post - entirely from an Indian perspective - you are asking us to consider "the other side's point of view".

I think I may just be talking to a grown-up child. Sorry for that, but that is what your statements are making me think.

Our options are pretty simple. I) We can either give up our legitimate demands and make a forced peace with India until the next issue (water, air, fire - whatever) comes up,

That would be a sane decision to make.

II) We can give better than we get and make sure that if there is no resolution and we aren't given what we believe is rightfully ours, then we ensure that India is made to pay a price for its unfairness also. And please. Let's not go down the "terrorism" path here. Afghanistan is one good example of Pakistan using its position to harm and destroy Indian interests without any question of "terrorism" coming up.

Well, in that case, do you think Indians are unwilling to do the same to you? It leads to confrontation, which is totally in your hand to avoid.

III) Destroy each other and ensure that not a single soul on either side survives and those that do, pray for their end

No such possibility, infantile thought.

V) We can both understand that there will be no long term peace until the core issue of Kashmir is addressed, and then sit down at the table - like President Musharraf and PM Vajpayee did - and hammer out a mutually acceptable solution with both sides considering the other an equal.

India has always maintained that it is willing to take Kashmir as a issue of discussion, but that cannot happen while Pakistan is holding gun on India's head. You have to show the intention that you mean no harm.

There is nothing to get worked up about. We have been here for thousands of years and are not going anywhere.

For sure. So isn't that a good reason to live peacefully together?

 

[Valiant_Soul]

P.S: Haven't really read most of the other posts since my last response here, so someone who responded to me may not get ant replies - no time to read all that and respond.

Does that makes my arguments acceptable or that it is convenient to ignore them as they may not be so easy to rebuff? Although, I think you can rebuff just anything in this world because even so much of explicit information cannot open your eyes.

 

[TechLahore]

Please do, I would really like to know what other nations think about my nation. Although, please refer to those who do not have bilateral issues with India.

The last Nizam did not wanted to give up his rule, when it was clear that the world and especially India wanted to turn to the rule of democracy leaving behind monarchy. India made repeated persuasions to him before finally deciding to act. But not that India killed him or the people there, after that. And also geographically, it was not possible to have a monarchy in the center of the country while the rest was going to be a democracy. India's decision was correct and not even the people of Hyderabad will tell you otherwise.



That is totally your perception and rightly a false one, and until you drop your anti-India sentiment and then judge her, you will continue to tread the wrong path.

Your entire response is composed of nothing other 'I say it, therefore it is' like justifications for India. Even when it comes to invading an independent state, you use ridiculous lines of logic such as 'they had a monarchy', 'we really pleaded with them first to change their form of government'.

I am done with you - I didn't realize I was responding to an unthinking propagandist. No further responses from me.

 

[Valiant_Soul]

Unknown Pakistani group claims responsibility for Pune blast

An unknown group calling itself the Laskhar-e-Taiba Al Alami claimed on Tuesday it was behind Saturday’s bomb attack in Pune that killed nine people.

A person who identified himself as Abu Jindal called The Hindu here, described himself as the spokesman of the LeT Al Alami (international), and claimed the group had carried out the attack because of what he said was India’s “refusal” to discuss Kashmir in the forthcoming talks with Pakistan.

The telephone number that showed up on the caller identity carried an area code common to the Waziristan tribal area and Bannu, the adjoining district in the North-West Frontier Province.

When this correspondent tried calling back the number, a recorded voice message said the number was temporarily not in use.

Kashmir jihadists do not believe in India-Pakistan talks on Kashmir and have long said their aim is to seize the State by force from India in order to “liberate” it, which makes the caller’s statement intriguing and difficult to reconcile with the standard jihadist line.

The caller also gave India’s “alliance” with America as another reason for the attack. Asked if there were any other reasons, he said: “These are the only two reasons”.

“Joh bhi America ka ittehad hoga, hum uskey khilaf jang ladengey, chahey who India ho ya Pakistan (we will wage war against any ally of America, whether it is India or Pakistan).”

He said the group had split from the Laskhar-e-Taiba because it took orders from Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence.

The caller sounded like an educated boy in his late teens or early 20s. He said he was calling from Miramshah in North Waziristan and declined to divulge the name of the group’s leader. Asked how the group had carried out the Pune attack, he said it had its “sources” in India and had activated them to carry out the attack.

Unknown Pakistani group claims responsibility for Pune blast

 

[Valiant_Soul]

Your entire response is composed of nothing other 'I say it, therefore it is' like justifications for India.

That is totally incorrect and unjsustfied. I tried my best to appeal to your conscience and to engage you, not to thrust my opinion on you. I do not believe in that. But I think you should see the mirror here, if you can, and you will find that this accusation that you laid on me pefectly suits your responses.

Even when it comes to invading an independent state, you use ridiculous lines of logic such as 'they had a monarchy', 'we really pleaded with them first to change their form of government'.

Those are the logic that are pragmatic and for the overall well-being of the people, even though at first sight, it might seem rude.

I am done with you - I didn't realize I was responding to an unthinking propagandist. No further responses from me.

Running away now, are we? No substantial arguments to make?

I think my intuition was correct. I was, after all, talking to a grown-up child.

 

[Halaku Khan]

Iran seeks arrest of those involved in Pune blast

PTI Tuesday, February 16, 2010 18:28 IST

New Delhi: Offering its condolences to the family members of the victims of the Pune bomb blast, in which one Iranian student was also killed, Iran today asked Indian government to take serious steps to identify and arrest those involved in the ghastly act.

In a statement issued in New Delhi, the Iran embassy said it "condemns in the strongest possible words such terrorist acts and calls upon the government of India to, while ensuring the security of the Iranian nationals, take serious steps to identify and arrest those involved in the blast."

It said it was "offering condolence and sympathy to the family members of the victims of the terrorist act in which one Iranian student was killed and five others were injured."

In the first major attack after 26/11, terror struck Pune on Saturday as a powerful bomb ripped apart at a popular bakery-cum-cafe near the Chabad House, killing ten people, including two foreigners and injuring 57 others.

Iran seeks arrest of those involved in Pune blast - dnaindia.com

 

[Halaku Khan]

Ex-Pak Army officers planned Pune blast

By By DC Correspondent
Feb 16 2010
Feb. 15: Saturday’s blast at German Bakery in Pune was planned four to five months ago by former officers of the Pakistan Army who are now key members of banned terror outfit Lashkar-e-Tayyaba (LeT) in Karachi.

Mohammed Amjad alias Khwaja, an alleged member of terror group Harkat-ul-Jihad al-Islami (HuJI) arrested by the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) in Colombo last month for involvement in terrorist cases in Andhra Pradesh, told investigators during his interrogation that a retired senior Pakistani army officer and senior LeT members had in a meeting in Karachi last year showed him and three top Indian Mujahideen (IM) ultras photographs of German Bakery and the Osho Ashram in Pune.

Khwaja, 27, of Malakpet in Hyderabad, said the retired Pakistani officer asked him and IM terrorists Abdul Aziz, Ameen Raza Khan and his brother Asif if they could plan attacks on the targets in Pune. “Kuch kar paogey? Kaafi foreigners hain yahan,” (Can you do something? There are a lot of foreigners here.”) Khwaja quoted the ex-Pak Army officer as saying.

Their LeT handlers also asked Khwaja and the IM ultras to plan attacks on synagogues, Chabbad houses and the National Defence Academy in Pune. Intelligence sources said the information from Khwaja was shared with the central intelligence agencies and the Maharashtra government well before the terrorists carried out the attack in Pune.

Khwaja also said he had met IM co-founder Riyaz Bhatkal alias Roshan Khan alias Shahrukh Khan and his brother Iqbal at an LeT meeting in Karachi last year. “Riyaz lives in Karachi under the patronage of Pakistan’s Inter Services Intelligence. Iqbal is presently located in Dubai. The brothers identify vulnerable youth from India and recruit them in the IM for anti-India operations,” a top police officer said.

“Recruits like Khwaja are paid anywhere between Rs 20,000 and Rs 50,000 per month excluding their travel and operation costs.” One of the key suspects in the Pune blast, Mohsin Chaudhry, is an IM member and close aide of the Bhatkal brothers. Though Riyaz Bhatkal has been involved in most of the recent terror attacks in India, the authorities are yet to request the Interpol to issue a red corner notice against him.

Source URL:
Ex-Pak Army officers planned Pune blast | Deccan Chronicle

 

[weaponx]

Unknown Pakistani group claims responsibility for Pune blast

NIRUPAMA SUBRAMANIAN

An unknown group calling itself the Laskhar-e-Taiba Al Alami claimed on Tuesday it was behind Saturday’s bomb attack in Pune that killed nine people.

A person who identified himself as Abu Jindal called The Hindu here, described himself as the spokesman of the LeT Al Alami (international), and claimed the group had carried out the attack because of what he said was India’s “refusal” to discuss Kashmir in the forthcoming talks with Pakistan.

The telephone number that showed up on the caller identity carried an area code common to the Waziristan tribal area and Bannu, the adjoining district in the North-West Frontier Province.

When this correspondent tried calling back the number, a recorded voice message said the number was temporarily not in use.

Kashmir jihadists do not believe in India-Pakistan talks on Kashmir and have long said their aim is to seize the State by force from India in order to “liberate” it, which makes the caller’s statement intriguing and difficult to reconcile with the standard jihadist line.

The caller also gave India’s “alliance” with America as another reason for the attack. Asked if there were any other reasons, he said: “These are the only two reasons”.

“Joh bhi America ka ittehad hoga, hum uskey khilaf jang ladengey, chahey who India ho ya Pakistan (we will wage war against any ally of America, whether it is India or Pakistan).”

He said the group had split from the Laskhar-e-Taiba because it took orders from Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence.

The caller sounded like an educated boy in his late teens or early 20s. He said he was calling from Miramshah in North Waziristan and declined to divulge the name of the group’s leader. Asked how the group had carried out the Pune attack, he said it had its “sources” in India and had activated them to carry out the attack.

The Hindu : News / National : Unknown Pakistani group claims responsibility for Pune blast

 

[Always Neutral]

Ex-Pak Army officers planned Pune blast

By By DC Correspondent
Feb 16 2010
Feb. 15: Saturday’s blast at German Bakery in Pune was planned four to five months ago by former officers of the Pakistan Army who are now key members of banned terror outfit Lashkar-e-Tayyaba (LeT) in Karachi.


Khwaja, 27, of Malakpet in Hyderabad, said the retired Pakistani officer asked him and IM terrorists Abdul Aziz, Ameen Raza Khan and his brother Asif if they could plan attacks on the targets in Pune. “Kuch kar paogey? Kaafi foreigners hain yahan,” (Can you do something? There are a lot of foreigners here.”) Khwaja quoted the ex-Pak Army officer as saying.



Source URL:
Ex-Pak Army officers planned Pune blast | Deccan Chronicle

If this is true the Chief of RAW and IB should be shot for incompetence.

Could they not get the Poona Police to set up remote survelliance of such areas ?

Could they not atleast arrange for 100 USD CC camera to be installed in the premise and also arrange for a few discrete eyes to be stationed there or atleast put in a drill for how the waiters should handle such bags.

Total sign of incompetence and blaming the wolf after you yourself leave the chicken coop open and invited it in.

While all the above may have not prevented the blast but by now the scum would have been identified. The bakery owner was so naive that the only CCTV she installed there was to watch no one stole from the till. What utter short sightedness on part of everybody.

Regards

 

[Spring Onion]

Unknown Pakistani group claims responsibility for Pune blast

NIRUPAMA SUBRAMANIAN

An unknown group calling itself the Laskhar-e-Taiba Al Alami claimed on Tuesday it was behind Saturday’s bomb attack in Pune that killed nine people.

A person who identified himself as Abu Jindal called The Hindu here, described himself as the spokesman of the LeT Al Alami (international), and claimed the group had carried out the attack because of what he said was India’s “refusal” to discuss Kashmir in the forthcoming talks with Pakistan.

The telephone number that showed up on the caller identity carried an area code common to the Waziristan tribal area and Bannu, the adjoining district in the North-West Frontier Province.

When this correspondent tried calling back the number, a recorded voice message said the number was temporarily not in use.

Kashmir jihadists do not believe in India-Pakistan talks on Kashmir and have long said their aim is to seize the State by force from India in order to “liberate” it, which makes the caller’s statement intriguing and difficult to reconcile with the standard jihadist line.

The caller also gave India’s “alliance” with America as another reason for the attack. Asked if there were any other reasons, he said: “These are the only two reasons”.

“Joh bhi America ka ittehad hoga, hum uskey khilaf jang ladengey, chahey who India ho ya Pakistan (we will wage war against any ally of America, whether it is India or Pakistan).”

He said the group had split from the Laskhar-e-Taiba because it took orders from Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence.

The caller sounded like an educated boy in his late teens or early 20s. He said he was calling from Miramshah in North Waziristan and declined to divulge the name of the group’s leader. Asked how the group had carried out the Pune attack, he said it had its “sources” in India and had activated them to carry out the attack.

The Hindu : News / National : Unknown Pakistani group claims responsibility for Pune blast

Abu Jindal isnt he the man who is Indian and India recently accepted that he is involved in Mumbai attacks and suddenly now he claimed this blast too.

And ohhhh he called from Miramshah lolzz my God the Indians failed to trace the call if it was from Pakistan.

and what a joke Indians are trying to cash the dead bodies by making the blast as revenge for sidding with US bwahahahahahha.

When was the last time India Practically took part in US war on terror???????????

hmmmm something is cooking up.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

As I see it, India opened a front in Punjab (I think) to relieve pressure from Kashmir 1947 style attack. The attempt to repeat 1947 blew up into a full scale war and the original strategic objectives of Pakistan were not met.. Really speaking everything else is not so relavant..

There was no 1947 style attack since the Operation was essentially scrapped after the infiltrators were found out.

In 1947 the Tribal militia managed to take on and defeat the Mahrajah's forces in direct combat, and it was once the IA entered the fray that the PA was deployed after much delay and hand wringing by the British Army Chief.

So India had technically thwarted Pakistan's plans with the detection and defeat of the infiltrators. Next India attacked across the ceasefire line and later attacked across the IB to relieve pressure from the PA in Kashmir.

What was India's goal to expand the conflict into a larger conventional one, even though it had defeated the covert attempt to infiltrate people to instigate a rebellion in IAK?

Whatever goal India had, the end of the war resulted in no major advantage for either side, so I fail to see what objectives India accomplished by escalating the conventional war that resulted in a stalemate.

P.S: I'll see if I can find a 1965 war thread to move these posts over.