Belgium Admits It Was Screwed By The Saudis

[Tiger Genie]

When we dont study the past or its reasons we repeat the same mistakes....


Let me give you an analogy:

In America if a white man/ kid is found guilty of a massacre he is 99% declared insane due to some past trauma....But brown kids who have seen nothing but war their whole lives cant suffer from any form illness? Shouldnt they be given more care esp since you have signed an agreement to take in refugees....from war torn countries...Countries YOU bombed...Wars you threw on them that they didnt ask....Showing them dead neighbours which no child should see!

Where is your responsibility? You cant ask another when you havent paid your side of the bargain!


A significant of those do exist and are thriving because the govt has failed to integrate which in sociology terms means to mix ...diversify the surrounding..BUT when you find singular environment, it shows "no integration" occurred so before pointing fingers the laws which were supposed to make this happen "should also" be questioned!

Let me give you an example close to home....

Malaysian indians every now and then complain about racism....they have their own schools, areas and even temples in Malaysia.....yet they cry....Now if tomorrow india was bombarded by America and Malaysians joined the fleet...with soldiers and weapons ...full support....

How will you behave, the Malaysian indians? Please dont give me holier than thou bs we all know ANY human being will feel the heat if thrown in such a situation ...

Now lets say some indians who were prosecuted on their land and they moved to Malaysia and made their ghettos....then Malaysia attacked india - full fledged war, blowing off the taj mahal and any other marks....leaving behind some weapons that militia got and started a full war with the neighbourhood you grew up in bombed to pieces and your old neighbours who were living there vaporized- their only crime they were not rich enough to move out in time....then these militia go and recruit these Malaysian indians who were thrown and forgotten in ghettos....tells them that their mother land needs them is getting "invaded"....

Now tell me as a human being not just an indian what the hell crosses your minds?

Because no matter how much you deny....Afghanistan looks worse than it did before 9/11...Iraq looks like Nagasaki after the nuclear strike! And you expect me to believe not a single civilian was harmed? Esp when at 9/11 people were rushing to "kill some of them" (not indicating in any specific details but with full of anger) (exact words when American army was being sent)

If a white kid can go into trauma enough to kill from child abuse or even some as simple as neglect...then imagine what these people go through?! If you cant then you neglect EQ and are in no position to debate further!

When 9/11 happened Americans were soo full of hate and ignorance they did stereotype and cause pain to a lot of people who put the trust in the justice system....mistakes did happen...Ignoring them or pretending they didnt, not acknowledging them and all this other piled up WRONGS...is not making any right!

1. Who said not to study history? study it thoroughly. BUt you are not going to go back centuries and undo colonisation or crusades or ghazni muhamad. What must get fixed is what you see today which is islamic radicalization. Saying that does not make any of the past atrocities any better. It is a question of realism and avoidance of support through excuse making.

2. WHat exactly are you trying to establish with the Malaysian Indian hypothesis? If there is racism, by all means they have a right to object cry or protest, like everyone else. There is no analogy when you create a hypothesis based purely on several IFs. Again excuse making and a somewhat desperate search for equivalencies. This by the way is one of the core reasons muslim children growing up even with all resources, find it ok to radicalize.

3. Whites committing murders are found insane 99% ? where did you get that stat from? I'd like to see that. If your point is that blacks are treated worse than whites for the same crime, there is some data to support that. I have not seen such data support against browns other than by extrapolation. But even that, when you start exaggerating to 99%, is mere excuse making.

Why do you refuse to understand the obvious pattern? Could Arafat have made the palastenian deal or not? Could Saddam Hussein not have gassed the kurds or not? Could Gaddafi not funded the PanAm hijackers or not? Could A.Q.Khan not have smuggled stuff to N.Korea or not? Could Osama not have bombed WTC or not? Could Taleban not have enable Osama or not? Could Pakistan not have sheltered Osama or not?

If educated muslims do not stop making excuses for their radicalised kin, how will the problem be solved?

PS: BTW when Indians in Srilanka were being systematically sidelined (I am talking pre-LTTE days) there was support for them in India, especially from the Tamilnadu state. But when LTTE turned into violent organization, that support evaporated and India no longer supported them. It led to such frustration on the part of the LTTE that they killed an Indian PM. So when you try to draw equivalencies and parallels, process that, no need for disproven hypotthesis.

 

[Tiger Genie]

Well, polls in Iraq are actually favouring Saddam now...

Here is what the truth is now like:
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/10/saddam-tony-blair-iraq-apology/412450/
http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-what-life-in-iraq-was-like-under-saddam-hussein-2014-7?IR=T
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/it-was-better-to-live-in-iraq-under-saddam-9532742.html


Libya, Iraq and Syria before and after US invasion! See for your own eyes and tell me what was better?

9/11 dropped 2 towers in USA...BUT 3 countries in Middle East and East Asia!







Coz if Islam told to kill or whatever you people think it does....More than a million Muslims in Europe would have taken over by now and done more damage than that is done by the "few" idiots who are doing it...def not in our name (as we have already stated- campaigned not in my name)

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/belgium-admits-it-was-screwed-by-the-saudis.426843/page-2#ixzz45wi1w5SB

do you really believe these are due to American democracy? not the ruinous intercaste conflict among muslims calling themselves sunnis shia whatnot and bombing each other? or are you saying all people in so called muslim countries are born without a brain of thei own and let American demcoracy do whatever it wants to them?

Again the excuse making and not wanting to take responsibility for your own mistakes.

 

[Dubious]

1. Who said not to study history? study it thoroughly. BUt you are not going to go back centuries and undo colonisation or crusades or ghazni muhamad.

You cant go to the past to undo it so you create it in the present? Kind of explains your psychology there!

When I said study the past it clearly shows dont repeat the stupid mistakes that caused the present ..

What must get fixed is what you see today which is islamic radicalization. Saying that does not make any of the past atrocities any better. It is a question of realism and avoidance of support through excuse making.

.
What we see today had started in the cold war....Now if you dont even acknowledge that ....THAT itself is already not studying history!

Apparently people dont understand coz Americans in Iraq after saying its a mistake and still overstaying a decade, kind of shows it to be a colonization in process! - Past repeated yet again

Now if people oppose it and fight it why are they called terrorists killing American soldiers? In the heads of the killers they are protecting their land from invaders who have overstayed despite announcing some 3 times that they are leaving! -Past repeated yet again!

Now using a religion channel to this regional colonization is also not learning from the past where people used Christianity to gain colonies! Still dont learn from the past or just lack analytical skills of any form?

 

[Tiger Genie]

You cant go to the past to undo it so you create it in the present? Kind of explains your psychology there!

When I said study the past it clearly shows dont repeat the stupid mistakes that caused the present ..
.
What we see today had started in the cold war....Now if you dont even acknowledge that ....THAT itself is already not studying history!

Apparently people dont understand coz Americans in Iraq after saying its a mistake and still overstaying a decade, kind of shows it to be a colonization in process! - Past repeated yet again

Now if people oppose it and fight it why are they called terrorists killing American soldiers? In the heads of the killers they are protecting their land from invaders who have overstayed despite announcing some 3 times that they are leaving! -Past repeated yet again!

Now using a religion channel to this regional colonization is also not learning from the past where people used Christianity to gain colonies! Still dont learn from the past or just lack analytical skills of any form?

AGAIN go study the past and learn from it all you want. Nobody is denying you that. Why are you imagining someone is trying to stop you from that. But after having studied and learned, do not forget to come back to the present and start fixing the problems that exist today! Is that so complicated?

Instead all you people do is prefer to stay in the past so that you don't have to face the reality of the present. It is easier for you to keep criticizing past villainies by others than to face the current villany by muslims!

 

[Dubious]

2. WHat exactly are you trying to establish with the Malaysian Indian hypothesis? If there is racism, by all means they have a right to object cry or protest, like everyone else. There is no analogy when you create a hypothesis based purely on several IFs. .

Seriously you do lack analytical skills of any form dont you?

It was a hypothesis to throw you in the situation....Psychologists believe that people who cant understand some scenarios need to walk in the shoes in order to understand it...And that makes up a large % of the world who need to walk in other's shoes so I gave you the indian twist to it!
And you call it excuse making? Apparently you are more damaged than that

As for the bold part...Hypothesis are made on IF....If the IF is removed it isnt a hypothesis but a factual theory and backed by evidence it becomes a fact!! -Where did you get your basic education from again? Coz if that school wasnt able to teach you to think you fall not far from the sheep in Pakistan who dont even have an education and hence repeat the mistakes of their forefathers!

Again excuse making and a somewhat desperate search for equivalencies. This by the way is one of the core reasons muslim children growing up even with all resources, find it ok to radicalize

As for this jargon...CLEARLY shows your - either inability to comprehend the situation AND scenario
OR just plain dumb!

As for the bold part....Islam has very little to do with any of this....Coz IF the person was even as MUSLIM as they want the world to believe and people like you believing- it just shows people dont do their research!

I am a practicing Muslim and so are millions like me....NONE of us have blown anyone, many havent even given it a thought and many more couldnt care to waste time thinking about it! Now if Islam was even remotely as evil as you want to believe it to be , we each of the millions would have already caused a higher degree of damage...

Now if that isnt evidence enough...I believe NOTHING would be! Coz a million people not harming others as evidence cant convince you nothing can!

3. Whites committing murders are found insane 99% ? where did you get that stat from? I'd like to see that. If your point is that blacks are treated worse than whites for the same crime, there is some data to support that. I have not seen such data support against browns other than by extrapolation. But even that, when you start exaggerating to 99%, is mere excuse making.

Its a figure of speech I didnt give any decimal nor anything....

Now if you cant learn basic conversational skills that is even more pitiful!

I have referenced alot of articles now if that was STATISTICS I would refer it!

Tell me how many whites have been convicted without the insanity plea?

As for the bold part...Maybe you dont do any research and just sit in front of the tv waiting to be fed whatever they want to feed you?

There isnt data accumulated for your ease but daily newspaper articles can show you the trend! And some articles even question what if the person was brown? Most of the time white crimes are treated as crimes but brown people are always linked to terrorists even dead ones are linked!

 

[Tiger Genie]

Seriously you do lack analytical skills of any form dont you?

It was a hypothesis to throw you in the situation....Psychologists believe that people who cant understand some scenarios need to walk in the shoes in order to understand it...And that makes up a large % of the world who need to walk in other's shoes so I gave you the indian twist to it!
And you call it excuse making? Apparently you are more damaged than that

As for the bold part...Hypothesis are made on IF....If the IF is removed it isnt a hypothesis but a factual theory and backed by evidence it becomes a fact!! -Where did you get your basic education from again? Coz if that school wasnt able to teach you to think you fall not far from the sheep in Pakistan who dont even have an education and hence repeat the mistakes of their forefathers!
As for this jargon...CLEARLY shows your - either inability to comprehend the situation AND scenario
OR just plain dumb!

As for the bold part....Islam has very little to do with any of this....Coz IF the person was even as MUSLIM as they want the world to believe and people like you believing- it just shows people dont do their research!

I am a practicing Muslim and so are millions like me....NONE of us have blown anyone, many havent even given it a thought and many more couldnt care to waste time thinking about it! Now if Islam was even remotely as evil as you want to believe it to be , we each of the millions would have already caused a higher degree of damage...

Now if that isnt evidence enough...I believe NOTHING would be! Coz a million people not harming others as evidence cant convince you nothing can!

Hey genius! don't you read more than two words per sentence, though you write 100 per? A hypothesis is NOT an analogy. What you are doing is, asking me to imagine a something that is not proven (=hypothesis) and at the same time asking me to accept it as proof by calling it an analogy.

In effect this is what you are asking me to do: "assume 2 = 5. therefore 5 = 2.". That is your entire argument.

 

[Dubious]

Why do you refuse to understand the obvious pattern? Could Arafat have made the palastenian deal or not?

The actual question should be why are there 3 versions to that story? Where the TRAINED officers could be man handled by a woman! What were they drunk that they couldnt handle a woman or keep their guns to themselves? Who trained them? Why are the worst trained officers sent to "dangerous" zones?

Could Saddam Hussein not have gassed the kurds or not? Could Gaddafi not funded the PanAm hijackers or not? Could A.Q.Khan not have smuggled stuff to N.Korea or not? Could Osama not have bombed WTC or not? Could Taleban not have enable Osama or not? Could Pakistan not have sheltered Osama or not?

And all these are speculations....at 1 time the media report Osama killed 5 yrs ago, 3 yrs ago and then found in Pakistan....
As for sheltering....There are articles American saying they were collaborating with Pakistan..You think American choppers fly our air and we wouldnt know about it? Especially when you throw in the allegation that we were safe guarding Osama...wouldnt we have kept THAT lower and extra security to ensure no one comes in by air to the most wanted criminal hideout?

How old are you 5?

PS: BTW when Indians in Srilanka were being systematically sidelined (I am talking pre-LTTE days) there was support for them in India, especially from the Tamilnadu state. But when LTTE turned into violent organization, that support evaporated and India no longer supported them. It led to such frustration on the part of the LTTE that they killed an Indian PM. So when you try to draw equivalencies and parallels, process that, no need for disproven hypotthesis.

That bold part is prob only from media in India I have enough Singleness Sri Lankans who claim indians had everything to do with it! So all that evaporation is not a fact but you wanting to believe but accusing another who actually proves with facts that if Islam was radical in anyway, a million of us spread all over the world- NOT ONE would have been different! Because no matter how many sects we have we believe in 1 god and 1 msg!

 

[scholseys]

Indeed. When until a few short months ago many Europeans took pride in mocking the USA for the level of intelligence gathering and homeland security. Now they all wish they had followed the USA - and are scrambling to hire security consultancies from the USA and Israel.

But let me be a bit serious - the government, whether Belgian or any other, ofcourse can and should facilitate integration. But it should be in its own terms, otherwise it is simply paying blackmail.

That's what happened in Belgium, France and select pockets of even UK and USA. Fortunately USA woke up sooner - UK is just waking up. But France and Belgium are still in denial

Who let you in the US, baniya? or did you border crossed from mexico? ima call the immigration police of on you...

 

[Tiger Genie]

The actual question should be why are there 3 versions to that story? Where the TRAINED officers could be man handled by a woman! What were they drunk that they couldnt handle a woman or keep their guns to themselves? Who trained them? Why are the worst trained officers sent to "dangerous" zones?


And all these are speculations....at 1 time the media report Osama killed 5 yrs ago, 3 yrs ago and then found in Pakistan....
As for sheltering....There are articles American saying they were collaborating with Pakistan..You think American choppers fly our air and we wouldnt know about it? Especially when you throw in the allegation that we were safe guarding Osama...wouldnt we have kept THAT lower and extra security to ensure no one comes in by air to the most wanted criminal hideout?

How old are you 5?

Please, don't degenerate yourself into insults. There is a reason why the game is called 'are you smarter than a five year old' btw.

Osama bin laden being sheltered in Pakistan close to your military center has been accepted by your government. There is a Dr.Afridi that has been jailed for helping Americans swoop in and kill him without the knowledge of your military. It had to be done without telling your government because they had proven untrustworthy and duplicitous.

Denying these is no different from other deranged theories such as 9/11 was caused by mossad type of nonsense.

 

[Dubious]

do you really believe these are due to American democracy? not the ruinous intercaste conflict among muslims calling themselves sunnis shia whatnot and bombing each other?

.

They for sure had their differences and were killing each other before Americans arrived...No one can deny it...It is a disease all over Middle East and Western Asia!

However, because the foreigners known as Americans have done equal evil they and it hasnt been highlighted ...THAT should also be researched!

Because even when Arabs fought among themselves, they didnt bomb the infrastructure to pieces...Not towns and cities to shreads! And def not temples/ mosques and churches not schools and hospitals!

Coz no matter how evil Saddam was, education and health care was free in Iraq...something America hasnt been able to achieve!

As for the Shia Sunni part- I know too many Iraqi who have relatives in both sects! The Arab Shia Sunni was a different breed than the indian or Pakistani version! But indians think everything is similar to what happens in india thats where you draw all your similarities and conclusions from that is why I gave the example of Malaysian indians!

all people in so called muslim countries are born without a brain of thei own and let American demcoracy do whatever it wants to them? Again the excuse making and not wanting to take responsibility for your own mistakes

And this bit just proves you are kind of indicting yourself!

Coz before and after where before was their own war and after was post American boots there!

Before and after also shows pre America leaving its weapons for Al Qaedah and ISIS - free for anyone to take, also releasing weapon drops in majority ISIS area...Now that has more weight than your accusations and rants!

 

[Tiger Genie]

Who let you in the US, baniya? or did you border crossed from mexico? ima call the immigration police of on you...

I'll make it easy for you. Call the Dept of Homeland Security at 201.356.1800. BTW when you do, my own system will find you include any dna test you may have been subjected to in most of the western hemisphere. I dare you.

 

[Dubious]

But after having studied and learned, do not forget to come back to the present and start fixing the problems that exist today! Is that so complicated?

Yes, it is complicated human being who does research can see that when you have an extra parameter (Americans in Arab land), things dont play out and ignoring the parameter as if it doesnt exist ...doesnt make your equation as balanced as you think and your outcomes are screwed!

So if you want them to fix things...move out! Let them then fix things THEN only can you blame THEM if they are wrong...But if your parameter is still disturbing the equation then it NEEDS to be taken into consideration! ESP if it has been providing training (Al Qaedah) and weapons to the terrorists (the wrong drops and also leaving the weapons unguarded numerous times)

If Americans are THAT incompetent maybe they are doing more harm than good...

Instead all you people do is prefer to stay in the past so that you don't have to face the reality of the present. It is easier for you to keep criticizing past villainies by others than to face the current villany by muslims!

Because LARGE scale operations and such organizations take time to build...they dont build overnight so if the root cause was the past....caused by foreign body known as America during the cold war...they need to admit it and stop causing any further damage!

Now THAT would be learning from their past!

A hypothesis is NOT an analogy. What you are doing is, asking me to imagine a something that is not proven (=hypothesis) and at the same time asking me to accept it as proof by calling it an analogy.

I called it an analogy you called it hypothesis I even quoted you...Since you took it as a hypothesis I explained to you what that meant! Now if you cant keep up with what you babble, maybe you need to read what you write!

 

[Tiger Genie]

They for sure had their differences and were killing each other before Americans arrived...No one can deny it...It is a disease all over Middle East and Western Asia!

However, because the foreigners known as Americans have done equal evil they and it hasnt been highlighted ...THAT should also be researched!

Because even when Arabs fought among themselves, they didnt bomb the infrastructure to pieces...Not towns and cities to shreads! And def not temples/ mosques and churches not schools and hospitals!

Coz no matter how evil Saddam was, education and health care was free in Iraq...something America hasnt been able to achieve!

As for the Shia Sunni part- I know too many Iraqi who have relatives in both sects! The Arab Shia Sunni was a different breed than the indian or Pakistani version! But indians think everything is similar to what happens in india thats where you draw all your similarities and conclusions from that is why I gave the example of Malaysian indians!

And this bit just proves you are kind of indicting yourself!

Coz before and after where before was their own war and after was post American boots there!

Before and after also shows pre America leaving its weapons for Al Qaedah and ISIS - free for anyone to take, also releasing weapon drops in majority ISIS area...Now that has more weight than your accusations and rants!

you missed the point, I will try simplify matters even further. Don't you think if you want to be a country, you have to become responsible for it?

If Afghanistan wants to be safe as a country it better not allow islamisation under taleban, or provide a base for osama to attack the USA. But they did and suffered the consequence.

If Pakistan wants to be safe as a country it better not allow islamic radicals take over their military or provide shelter for Osama et al. But they did and suffered the consequence.

Coming back to Belgium, if they want to be safe as a country they better not allow islamic radicals and provide shelter to them. But they did and suffered the consequence.

Yes, it is complicated human being who does research can see that when you have an extra parameter (Americans in Arab land), things dont play out and ignoring the parameter as if it doesnt exist ...doesnt make your equation as balanced as you think and your outcomes are screwed!

So if you want them to fix things...move out! Let them then fix things THEN only can you blame THEM if they are wrong...But if your parameter is still disturbing the equation then it NEEDS to be taken into consideration! ESP if it has been providing training (Al Qaedah) and weapons to the terrorists (the wrong drops and also leaving the weapons unguarded numerous times)

If Americans are THAT incompetent maybe they are doing more harm than good...


Because LARGE scale operations and such organizations take time to build...they dont build overnight so if the root cause was the past....caused by foreign body known as America during the cold war...they need to admit it and stop causing any further damage!

Now THAT would be learning from their past!


I called it an analogy you called it hypothesis I even quoted you...Since you took it as a hypothesis I explained to you what that meant! Now if you cant keep up with what you babble, maybe you need to read what you write!

Come on, you admitted that 'IF' represents a hypothesis.....stop trying to weasel out.

 

[Dubious]

One would say that that's exactly what's happenning in Syria,Libya,Irak,A'stan.

One could ONLY say that if America didnt have boots in Syria, Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan...Now since the common denominator in all the states is America, their soldiers testimonies that they went in Afghanistan and Iraq with anger and adrenaline to kill - the training they gave Al Qaedah which led to ISIS and other bodies and leaving weapons so that terrorists can pick it up.....now THAT weights heavier than them killing themselves up...

 

[Tiger Genie]

@Akheilos - interesting as it has been, every debate has to come to an end. I have to go fire up my lawn mower now (it is bright and sunny outside), so wish you a good rest of the weekend. I know you have your heart in the right place and may whatever good you believe in lead you and everyone to better times. As me.