M8R
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No excuse for traitors...
BD to Get New Military Hardwares from China
- Thread starter eastwatch
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Adios Amigo
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Hi eastwatch!
I have been thinking all day long, if I should reply to your post or not? Honestly speaking I tried to avoid it at all costs (cause this topic has been beaten to death and you are quite well aware of the real grounds---), but with the incoming responses to your post I could not resist any more and got forced to reply.
Correct, a government(any government) cannot make and take decisions which are against the national interests and popular support. Now The question arises where does the popular support comes from? The public by themselves are no more better then a heard of sheep, be it any country no matter how advance and developed they are, no matter how much intellectual and intelligent they are, no matter how strong there individual and collective wisdom stands. Alone they can be only opinion holders at their best, Not policy framers and Policy shifters. Thats exactly why every nation needs leaders who serve as shepherds to lead and guide their sheep to better pastures which are lush green and abundant of fodder, so they can eat well, grow well, breed well and prosper to the desired status. And not only that, but also to protect his/her sheep from natural calamities, from wild animals who are always swirling around to feed on them, from following the routes where dangers await them. Its not an easy job, and therefore demands complete loyalty, dedication and sincerity.
Nations who are better educated, have better sense of their rights and duties, have urge to grow, have orientations towards progress and positivity, have better intellect and collective wisdom, often choose better leaders who can Shepherd them to those green pastures of prosperity and safety.One such living examples, is Malaysia and Mahateer Mohammad.
Nations who lack them often end up in choosing tiered and weary leaders, who are incompetent, corrupt, clueless,messed up and have no point to show their nation the way forward. Instead of positivity and progressive orientation, their rules of the game are negativity, accusations, push and pull,drag and dirty, make a hero out of some one, and make people believe that he or she is the sole and ultimate savior, and he will change the fates of millions but in reality he or she is nothing more then a load of cow dung. The one who is lost himself, how would such a person be the savior of millions? how can he guide them when he is lost himself??? As a consequence the sheep of such shepherd are always in trouble, always hungry, always struck by calamities, always lost, and more often eaten by the swirling wild animals. No, he/she cannot feed them, nor can he protect them nor can he guide them. He/She is in fact the wrath of God upon That Nation. Take a look around, and you would find more then platy of such examples.
Its possible that clueless and incompetent shepherd may be sitting on top of an aware and ever watchful sheep, but when things cross limits the public start taking things into their own hand a revolution takes place.This is not common and therefore takes place rarely.
Now the question arises why is it so difficult and out of the way for AL to shake hands with Pakistan?? 71 has long been over, four decades have passed in between, generation gaps has been reached. Governments changed,regimes changed, But still it has been kept fresh and live, and why so?? You guys always think that Pakistan committed atrocities in East Pakistan, I don't disagree. But let me ask you wasn't it pain full for us when one of our arm was being amputated?? How about you guys, if today (God Forbid) a province of yours gets up and starts a campaign against you for their liberation. And then an arch enemies divine hand in all that mess.How would you deal with them ? How would respond to them? Give them freedom as such!! No dear that's not the case the first thing you guys are gonna do is to term them Traitors and the use of force would look very much justified to you as to suppress them as soon as possible. And when force is used atrocities are bound to be committed. If the use of force gets successful and Movement gets crushed, The forerunners of such case are termed as traitors forever, Tamils in Sirilanka is a fresh example. On the other hand if the movement gets successful the same Traitors become Heroes for the new nation. Now regardless of what happened in 71 we accepted you as separate Sovereign nation. Only because we wanted to move on.
You know it very well that our former president had asked for an apology when he visited your country. So Why another apology. Just because the government is changed ?? Personally I wouldn't even mind that, if it can mend the hearts of grieved, But the attitude of this sort that Pakistan should keep rubbing its nose on the feet of AL or Hasina is not a positive one, and wont help. Seriously the people of Bangladesh have no bone with Pakistan. In fact a bone has been created so that Al has something to Play upon.
You are an educated person tell me how can a nation say no or rise against its own government if it wants to Make friendly relations with a country which has no bad intentions towards it?? Its simply ridiculous, even to think so! The fact is that AL has injected so much venom amongst the Bangladeshis against Pakistan, that now its practically impossible for them to back off their original stance. Doing so would simply be a poltical blunder for them which they cannot afford.
If the people of Bangladesh were really against good relations with Pakistan, they would have crippled the BNP and its leadership during their tenure, but they got elected twice and may get elected again, which clearly shows the mindset of an ordinary Bangladeshi, and he is not much bothered about Pakistan and its Policies. He wants progress but that is no where in the telescope, remember the Shepherds example I gave you earlier??
Now lets look at another aspect, whom will benefit more if Pakistan and Bangladesh have friendly relations. Obviously Bangladesh then Pakistan, I am not saying Pakistan wont benefit but Bangladesh would take more advantage of such relation. Since its a Military Forum, lets talk about defense and let other matters as economy or other sectors aside. Given our military base I know hell lot of areas where Bangladesh can benefit from. Its not that other players in the world cannot fulfill those needs but when you increase your supplier base, It gives you a leverage that you can exercise at will, and you get maximum out of a situation.
Thats the exact blunder we committed and are continuing to do so in regards to USSR now Russia. They, despite all the fuss of cold war extended their hands of friendship towards us several times which we very unfortunately because of our shortsightedness refused to accept. They built the Karachi steel mills in 70s which is they biggest mill in the country so far. They offered their top of the line military hardware, including the Migs and the SUs back in 90s, when West imposed sanctions on us. Still our knucklehead leadership showed its stubbornness and as a result we are still suffering.
So no one is asking AL to kiss the cheeks of Pakistan, But do whats in best interest of its people. I once said in a Bangladesh related thread, "the problem with Bangladesh is, either it has a pro Pakistan and anti India government or Pro India and anti Pakistan government, but no pro Bangladesh so far, and that's its problem".
Other then that, if the status quo remains the same , it wont affect us an badly. At least from Pakistan points of view, nothing would be lost, but surely an opportunity for both the nations to progress.
That is not our intention , nor we are going to do so. We sincerely extend our hands of friendship towards the people Bangladesh and not AL or BNP in particular. Our doors are always open for you.
Its ALs problem how it creates a positive public opinion regarding friendship with Pakistan after years of venomous Politics it had played upon. In all sincerity, I believe even The hard core AL supporters would also welcome such a move. But the question is, Is it going to do so???
As explained earlier, if the intentions are good, then, why not. If we had apologized once we can do so again. But not for the sake of ALs amusement and Ask the apology specifically to AL. Thats too much you are asking for, your are stepping on our integrity for the sake of your domestic politics in the name of friendship.
Lastly, even brother do fight at times in one home, and some times they do get separated, but that doesn't mean they are eternal enemies. They console and move on with their lives with good intentions for each other. We still consider you as our Lost Brothers.
Adios
I have been thinking all day long, if I should reply to your post or not? Honestly speaking I tried to avoid it at all costs (cause this topic has been beaten to death and you are quite well aware of the real grounds---), but with the incoming responses to your post I could not resist any more and got forced to reply.
Correct, a government(any government) cannot make and take decisions which are against the national interests and popular support. Now The question arises where does the popular support comes from? The public by themselves are no more better then a heard of sheep, be it any country no matter how advance and developed they are, no matter how much intellectual and intelligent they are, no matter how strong there individual and collective wisdom stands. Alone they can be only opinion holders at their best, Not policy framers and Policy shifters. Thats exactly why every nation needs leaders who serve as shepherds to lead and guide their sheep to better pastures which are lush green and abundant of fodder, so they can eat well, grow well, breed well and prosper to the desired status. And not only that, but also to protect his/her sheep from natural calamities, from wild animals who are always swirling around to feed on them, from following the routes where dangers await them. Its not an easy job, and therefore demands complete loyalty, dedication and sincerity.
Nations who are better educated, have better sense of their rights and duties, have urge to grow, have orientations towards progress and positivity, have better intellect and collective wisdom, often choose better leaders who can Shepherd them to those green pastures of prosperity and safety.One such living examples, is Malaysia and Mahateer Mohammad.
Nations who lack them often end up in choosing tiered and weary leaders, who are incompetent, corrupt, clueless,messed up and have no point to show their nation the way forward. Instead of positivity and progressive orientation, their rules of the game are negativity, accusations, push and pull,drag and dirty, make a hero out of some one, and make people believe that he or she is the sole and ultimate savior, and he will change the fates of millions but in reality he or she is nothing more then a load of cow dung. The one who is lost himself, how would such a person be the savior of millions? how can he guide them when he is lost himself??? As a consequence the sheep of such shepherd are always in trouble, always hungry, always struck by calamities, always lost, and more often eaten by the swirling wild animals. No, he/she cannot feed them, nor can he protect them nor can he guide them. He/She is in fact the wrath of God upon That Nation. Take a look around, and you would find more then platy of such examples.
Its possible that clueless and incompetent shepherd may be sitting on top of an aware and ever watchful sheep, but when things cross limits the public start taking things into their own hand a revolution takes place.This is not common and therefore takes place rarely.
Now the question arises why is it so difficult and out of the way for AL to shake hands with Pakistan?? 71 has long been over, four decades have passed in between, generation gaps has been reached. Governments changed,regimes changed, But still it has been kept fresh and live, and why so?? You guys always think that Pakistan committed atrocities in East Pakistan, I don't disagree. But let me ask you wasn't it pain full for us when one of our arm was being amputated?? How about you guys, if today (God Forbid) a province of yours gets up and starts a campaign against you for their liberation. And then an arch enemies divine hand in all that mess.How would you deal with them ? How would respond to them? Give them freedom as such!! No dear that's not the case the first thing you guys are gonna do is to term them Traitors and the use of force would look very much justified to you as to suppress them as soon as possible. And when force is used atrocities are bound to be committed. If the use of force gets successful and Movement gets crushed, The forerunners of such case are termed as traitors forever, Tamils in Sirilanka is a fresh example. On the other hand if the movement gets successful the same Traitors become Heroes for the new nation. Now regardless of what happened in 71 we accepted you as separate Sovereign nation. Only because we wanted to move on.
You know it very well that our former president had asked for an apology when he visited your country. So Why another apology. Just because the government is changed ?? Personally I wouldn't even mind that, if it can mend the hearts of grieved, But the attitude of this sort that Pakistan should keep rubbing its nose on the feet of AL or Hasina is not a positive one, and wont help. Seriously the people of Bangladesh have no bone with Pakistan. In fact a bone has been created so that Al has something to Play upon.
You are an educated person tell me how can a nation say no or rise against its own government if it wants to Make friendly relations with a country which has no bad intentions towards it?? Its simply ridiculous, even to think so! The fact is that AL has injected so much venom amongst the Bangladeshis against Pakistan, that now its practically impossible for them to back off their original stance. Doing so would simply be a poltical blunder for them which they cannot afford.
If the people of Bangladesh were really against good relations with Pakistan, they would have crippled the BNP and its leadership during their tenure, but they got elected twice and may get elected again, which clearly shows the mindset of an ordinary Bangladeshi, and he is not much bothered about Pakistan and its Policies. He wants progress but that is no where in the telescope, remember the Shepherds example I gave you earlier??
Now lets look at another aspect, whom will benefit more if Pakistan and Bangladesh have friendly relations. Obviously Bangladesh then Pakistan, I am not saying Pakistan wont benefit but Bangladesh would take more advantage of such relation. Since its a Military Forum, lets talk about defense and let other matters as economy or other sectors aside. Given our military base I know hell lot of areas where Bangladesh can benefit from. Its not that other players in the world cannot fulfill those needs but when you increase your supplier base, It gives you a leverage that you can exercise at will, and you get maximum out of a situation.
Thats the exact blunder we committed and are continuing to do so in regards to USSR now Russia. They, despite all the fuss of cold war extended their hands of friendship towards us several times which we very unfortunately because of our shortsightedness refused to accept. They built the Karachi steel mills in 70s which is they biggest mill in the country so far. They offered their top of the line military hardware, including the Migs and the SUs back in 90s, when West imposed sanctions on us. Still our knucklehead leadership showed its stubbornness and as a result we are still suffering.
So no one is asking AL to kiss the cheeks of Pakistan, But do whats in best interest of its people. I once said in a Bangladesh related thread, "the problem with Bangladesh is, either it has a pro Pakistan and anti India government or Pro India and anti Pakistan government, but no pro Bangladesh so far, and that's its problem".
Other then that, if the status quo remains the same , it wont affect us an badly. At least from Pakistan points of view, nothing would be lost, but surely an opportunity for both the nations to progress.
That is not our intention , nor we are going to do so. We sincerely extend our hands of friendship towards the people Bangladesh and not AL or BNP in particular. Our doors are always open for you.
Its ALs problem how it creates a positive public opinion regarding friendship with Pakistan after years of venomous Politics it had played upon. In all sincerity, I believe even The hard core AL supporters would also welcome such a move. But the question is, Is it going to do so???
As explained earlier, if the intentions are good, then, why not. If we had apologized once we can do so again. But not for the sake of ALs amusement and Ask the apology specifically to AL. Thats too much you are asking for, your are stepping on our integrity for the sake of your domestic politics in the name of friendship.
Lastly, even brother do fight at times in one home, and some times they do get separated, but that doesn't mean they are eternal enemies. They console and move on with their lives with good intentions for each other. We still consider you as our Lost Brothers.
Adios
Super Falcon
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what weapons they will get
It is 2 new frigates from China. The total will then become 7 frigates in BD.
Skies
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May be you do not know that how AL is spreading anti-PK sentiment through TV, news, and media everyday in BD. Even the primary school students know PK as enemy by media and their teachers and history in text books.
AL wants to establish such a bogus or placebo Bangali sentiment among Bangladeshis where BD people will perceive themselves superior than PK (as BD has absolutely nothing to pride except so called 71) after getting apology from PK just to get pubic support and empathy. LoL, some pathetic Bangladeshis has no clue that they are going to fall down in uncertainty after 10 or 20 years. Hell-stooge-AL still nothing to do well for the country but to give some placebo effects of thinking themselves superior from the 71 and PK issues, and, alas, clueless people are always with deceiver AL!
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M8R
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Skies - Not Sure what Your government want to achieve by doing this - This is only good if you plan on invading Pakistan which is not possible as Pakistan is far apart from Bangladesh and Bangladesh does not the capability to do so either.So why incite anti pakistani hatred in young benglais minds?
Old School
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Total number will be 4 as 3 of the older Ex-Royal Navy Frigates will be phased out. These two new Jiangwei II class Frigate will serve your navy quite well with on board C-802 SSM system.
Maira La
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☪☪☪☪;950480 said:
We created Pakistan. You betrayed us.
My great grandfather was a member of the working committee that created the Lahore Resolution. He could never foresee that his family would have to fight again - this time for the independence of the Bengali Nation. A lot of my relatives were killed, including newborn infants.
But I personally don't care anymore. Holding grudge against Pakistan won't bring us any good. If BD-Pak friendship benefits us economically or militarily, so be it! It's all business afterall.
Maira La
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Total number will be 5. BN is procuring a second hand 053H1, the same class as current BNS Usman. This has been confirmed by BN officials.
Al-zakir
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☪☪☪☪;950953 said:
Bharati prescribed Awami munafiq dalals sick politics to hold BD's progress. Bastards are worse then earth worms. These scums has given nothing to country than division. I hate them Maloon more than Bharatis.
Skies
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☪☪☪☪;950953 said:
Hell-AL is doing because:
- To get the credit still for 71s victory and use it for rest of her life, LoL, cos AL has nothing well to do. LoL, in 1999 when BD cricket team beat PK cricket team then this stupid-Hasina told to the media that we beat PK in 71 and again we beat PK. She thought she will get public support but she did not get any and criticized badly for her unfriendly comments. LOL, Stupid- poor- Hasina had no clue that BD will be not able to win against PK team again. On the other side Wasim Vhai told that we are very happy cos we lost to our brothers - such a great man.
- To make BD people understand that Mujib did everything to create BD and I'm his eligible daughter who knows the best how to run BD, and to get advantage from the public.
- To make BD people understand that AL knows the best how to solve the problems and how to establish peoples right by showing history of 71 and to get political advantage.
- To establish such a pseudo Bangali pride among Bangladeshis where BD people will perceive themselves as superior than PK and think their nation as a Nation of Heroes. But, LoL, sadly BD is getting fcuked by BSF every day. By bringing 71s issue again and again AL wants to say that we gave to feeling of superiority by victory, so cast your vote for us.
- To make BD people understand that PK was enemy and India is friend by stooge-AL. AL is just using these strategies to get political and Indian supports. Our young generation had no issue about 71 and PK in past but as soon as AL came to power from then AL is trying to proof that PK is enemy and India is friend.
**BTW, do not dislike all Bangladeshis if they dislike you cos they are deceived by AL and India.
fallstuff
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I hope you have a great time in Bangladesh. If you are from Kolkata you will find most of the people will welcome you with an open heart.
Most of the sweet makers were originally of Hindu religion. But that has changed over the years. There are stores that use generous amount of non sugar sweetners. You will taste it on the first bite.
Ask the local folks once you are there to direct you. But if you are ever in the USA, try the Aladdin made sweets from any Indian or Bangladeshi grocery store where it is available, it is just freaking awesome.
fallstuff
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My bad, I was sort of dis agreeing to what you were posting. I just couldn't unthanked the post i thanked by mistake. At some point AL reign will be over. BNP will be back. But they will almost walk the same path the AL was traveling. A lot like GOP and Democrats in USA.
No matter what you say, the ground truth is exactly what I said. In the end BNP and AL are the two sides of the same coin.
However, AL is has more backing from the likes of US and EU. BNP has none these days.
TopCat
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In which statement AL ever claimed that Bengali are superior than PK or anybody else?
Bengalis have nothing to pride except 71??? Had you ever gone to school? Bengalis ruled and reigned over India for more than 3 millenium. Infact all the major dynasty of India had full or partial root in Bengal. Now stop your Bullcrap. Would you? You are just hopeless............
