Balochistan Great Game Alarms Sirens

[Xeric]

Can someone explain to me what does Gwadar provide as a sea port that Karachi can not ?

As a starter, it provides us alternative SLOCs/ keeps the SLOCs open in case Karachi is blocked.

 

[karan.1970]

As a starter, it provides us alternative SLOCs/ keeps the SLOCs open in case Karachi is blocked.

First logical answer to a simple question..

But seriously, given the deterrents available on both sides, do you think we can ever reach a situation where India blockades Karachi. And if its USA that ends up implementing that blockade, it will be able to blockade both the ports as easily as 1

 

[Xeric]

First logical answer to a simple question..

But seriously, given the deterrents available on both sides, do you think we can ever reach a situation where India blockades Karachi.

Reach a situation?!

Sire, you did it in all the wars, especially in '71.

BTW, let me tell you a secret; my 'first hand' knowledge by virtue of my profession tells me that 'coercion at sea' would be the first step you guys would take in an event of war. That's what history tells us, rather it is more of a common sense - i get no points for bringing out this fact.

And if its USA that ends up implementing that blockade, it will be able to blockade both the ports as easily as 1

US badshah can do anything, no?

BTW, if we make another port at let's say Ormara, Pasni etc. The US sarkar can block it too, so does that mean we should stop having alternatives?

Lastly, US is not exactly our enemy as sometime you guys like to portray.

 

[Fahad Khan 2]

Can someone explain to me what does Gwadar provide as a sea port that Karachi can not ?

karachi port is running at full and upgradtion is also not possible..

 

[karan.1970]

Reach a situation?!

Sire, you did it in all the wars, especially in '71.

BTW, let me tell you a secret; my 'first hand' knowledge by virtue of my profession tells me that 'coercion at sea' would be the first step you guys would take in an event of war. That's what history tells us, rather it is more of a common sense - i get no points for bringing out this fact.

1971 war was in a much simpler times. MAD was not really assured then.. Now we are limited to poking each other in Kashmir Balochistan etc using asymmetric means. Neither will risk a full blown war where one idiot on either side can destroy the 2 countries.

US badshah can do anything, no?

BTW, if we make another port at let's say Ormara, Pasni etc. The US sarkar can block it too, so does that mean we should stop having alternatives?

Lastly, US is not exactly our enemy as sometime you guys like to portray.

No sire.. We don't .. Its your own Pakistani brethren that huff and puff at the name of Amreeka..

 

[Xeric]

1971 war was in a much simpler times. MAD was not really assured then.. Now we are limited to poking each other in Kashmir Balochistan etc using asymmetric means. Neither will risk a full blown war where one idiot on either side can destroy the 2 countries.

So you mean that a blockade of a port for a few days would make us Nuke you?
It is comforting that you are not in the Indian military

BTW, there are two kind of blockades, namely; 'Distant Blockade' and 'Close Blockade'. Look it up, it will bring things in perspective.

No sire.. We don't .. Its your own Pakistani brethren that huff and puff at the name of Amreeka..

Huff and puff?

Wasn't it you who brought in the 'bright idea' of the US blockading our ports?

Why?

 

[Bratva]

Didn't gwadar become operational in 2008?So why is there little progress on this proposed hub?

1. No further investment/ Slow investment in it from China due to security situation

2. Lack of infrastructure in Gwadar. No one willing to invest due to security situation

First logical answer to a simple question..

But seriously, given the deterrents available on both sides, do you think we can ever reach a situation where India blockades Karachi. And if its USA that ends up implementing that blockade, it will be able to blockade both the ports as easily as 1

The next war would be similar to COLD START doctrine . Gain an upper hand as soon as possible by inflicting as much damage as possible before nuke comes in play. No one would go for occupying lands this time. It would be to choke opponent conventional military strength and economy, so he would not think of waging war for another 100 or so years.

 

[Xeric]

Karachi is out of the sphere of influence where the Strait of Hormuz is concerned which is the center of gravity of the great game being played out in the middle East.



This article is pretty lame. The author is unaware of the fact that Chabahar Port in Iran which India is building is Iran's closest and best access point to the Indian Ocean and nearest to the Strait of Hormuz choke point.

The plan is to link Chabahar free trade area to Iran's main rail network, which is connected to central Asia and Afghanistan. This would provide more capability for Chabahar for faster and better logistics in the sector compared to Gwadar. Besides financing the Chabahar port, India has also built a 218 kilometer Zaranj-Delaram road in Afghanistan’s Nimroze province which will connect to Chabahar port via Milak. This will open the Indian market to Afghanistan.

Strategically, being only 180 nautical miles from the exit of the Straits of Hormuz, Gwadar, being built in Baluchistan coast, would enable Pakistan to take control over the world energy jugular and interdiction of Indian tankers.

To counter this, India has built the Chabahar port which is closer to the Strait of Hormuz and thus neutralizes Pakistan's advantage. The energy jugular will now be in Indo-Iranian hands.

You missed out a few points there .

The race was never to be , the ' closest ' to the Strait of Hormuz because it doesn't mean anything significant with regards to the potential of the ports unless of course one plans and has the means to block the Strait . The Tehran's woes with the West aren't over , even though there is progress being made , the lifting of sanctions and return to the SWIFT still remains a distant dream . Which means that the country is still sanctioned and as such , there is hindrance to the Indian plans . Afghanistan's North is sympathetic to the Iranians , its not the South from where all the routes pass , the Kabul's dependence of Pakistan is thus not likely reducing in the foreseeable future . The law and order situation in Afghanistan is only slated to go further down , not the other way around , regardless of the Americans extending their stay or not , the uneasy peace will inevitably deteriorate into a civil war , that presents future problems with the opening of ' Markets for Indian business and by extension influence in Afghanistan ' and Chahbahar's potential to link up with the Central Asian states . Arabs aren't really fond of Persians , another reason why Gwadar is in much better shape for the new great game , the Habibis will prefer Islamabad in that case . The Beijing will use the Gwadar , not Chahbahar for bringing prosperity and progress to its North Western regions and avoiding the Malacca Straits choke point altogether in crisis situation . I fail to see the Pakistan's advantage neutralized and the energy jugular in Indo-Iranian hands then . Remember , you just have build the port in Iran keeping your interests in mind , that doesn't mean that it is in ' your hands ' , for all that matters Pakistan and not India border Iran , the Iranians therefore will be very careful in picking sides and rooting for New Delhi if such a situation develops . After all , Delhi is far away , right ?

Just to add, if seen from a neutral perspective, Gwadar earns more points when compared with Chahbahar. i mean, the competition is tough but i will give just two points as a food for thought to you guys:

1) Whereas Turkmenistan would have a shorter route via Chahbahar, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan have a shorter route to the open seas via Gwadar.

2) Moreover, whereas Chahbahar can only service the western portion, Gwadar in addition to the CARs would also service China in terms of trade.

 

[karan.1970]

So you mean that a blockade of a port for a few days would make us Nuke you?
It is comforting that you are not in the Indian military

BTW, there are two kind of blockades, namely; 'Distant Blockade' and 'Close Blockade'. Look it up, it will bring things in perspective.

Its never a question of what will result in a nuclear exchange. Because no one can guarantee the enemy reactions during time of war. The only safe way is to ensure the hostilities do not reach the tipping point that results in a full blown shooting match. Now unless some bright scientist somewhere comes up with a way counter a nuke attack with 100% certainty, a full blown war using Air and sea assets seems too far fetched at this time.

Huff and puff?

Wasn't it you who brought in the 'bright idea' of the US blockading our ports?

Why?

Because that's the only other country with its army in the neighborhood that has ever threatened Pakistan militarily. Plus a lot of Pakistani members (including Zaid Hamid) are fairly convinced that USA is just waiting for an excuse to attack Pakistan. I mistook you for one of them

 

[Xeric]

Its never a question of what will result in a nuclear exchange. Because no one can guarantee the enemy reactions during time of war. The only safe way is to ensure the hostilities do not reach the tipping point that results in a full blown shooting match. Now unless some bright scientist somewhere comes up with a way counter a nuke attack with 100% certainty, a full blown war using Air and sea assets seems too far fetched at this time.

Cold Start, Son of Cold Start, what next?

 

[karan.1970]

Cold Start, Son of Cold Start, what next?

Military men get paid to make scenarios and strategies. As long as Pakistan does not make Zaid Hamid of Ghazwa-e-Hind fame as its president or COAS, I think hot pursuit is more likely than cold start

 

[Xeric]

Military men get paid to make scenarios and strategies. As long as Pakistan does not make Zaid Hamid of Ghazwa-e-Hind fame as its president or COAS, I think hot pursuit is more likely than cold start

 

[Mabs]

Can someone explain to me what does Gwadar provide as a sea port that Karachi can not ?

It's a natural deep sea port. This is the biggest advantage that Gawadar offers. Add to that it's location close to the Strait of Hormuz where two-thirds of the world's oil reserves lie, and you might understand its importance.

 

[jaunty]

Only India claims to be a "suppa powwa" every other year.

Only Pakistanis claim that Indians claim to be a "suppa powwa". I am yet to meet an Indian in real life or on here who claims India to be a super power.

 

[VCheng]

It's a natural deep sea port. This is the biggest advantage that Gawadar offers. Add to that it's location close to the Strait of Hormuz where two-thirds of the world's oil reserves lie, and you might understand its importance.

So it is deep and close to oil. So what? How does that translate into anything tangibly advantageous?

Are you saying that huge oil tankers will berth there to off load oil? Where will this oil go next?