Babur vs Krishnadevaraya in 16th century

[naveen mishra]

Not much idea but diamond mines of India were mainly in South. In North India, everyone is familiar with folklore of Krishnadevaraya and Tenali Rama, there was a famous cartoon series in Hindi on them. People has lots of respect for Vijayanagar Empire that it flourished in South, when North was on rampage.

actually dravidianhero mean to say ............during Krishnadevaraya dynasty diamond were sold like normal commodity
on street........ i don't know much ........but one thing is true krishna bazar was the biggest market during that period .............it was center of trading .............from middle east to Rome......every one come there for trading

pic of krishna bazar

 

[asad71]

The inherent weakness of Krishnadevaraya and the kingdom he set up was their adherence with Vaishnabism. No, the huge mass of Krishnadevaraya would have trampled themselves in battle with the mobile, better equipped, better trained, more motivated and better led army of Babur which had fashioned newer tactics in the course of endless battles it fought. In the long run too, the religious / cast division could not sustain any sizable southern Vaishnab kingdom.

 

[INDIC]

actually dravidianhero to mean say ............during Krishnadevaraya dynasty diamond were sold like normal commodity
on street........ i don't know much ........but one thing is true krishna bazar was the biggest market during that period .............it was center of trading .............from middle east to Rome......every one come there for trading

pic of krishna bazar

Quite possible, India was the only source of diamond in the world till Europeans discover them in Africa.

 

[SwatCat]

The inherent weakness of Krishnadevaraya and the kingdom he set up was their adherence with Vaishnabism. No, the huge mass of Krishnadevaraya would have trampled themselves in battle with the mobile, better equipped, better trained, more motivated and better led army of Babur which had fashioned newer tactics in the course of endless battles it fought. In the long run too, the religious / cast division could not sustain any sizable southern Vaishnab kingdom.

Really

It was Ibrahim Lodi's shameful defeat that made inroads for the Mughal turks. Krishna Devaraya patronized all the cultures and religions.

Bukka I – King of Vijayanagara empire who converted to Islam, then reconverted. The early life of Bukka as well as his brother Hakka (also known as Harihara I) are relatively unknown and most accounts of their early life are based on theories.

What superior tactics of mugals you are talking?
You seem to have no knowledge about KrishnaDevaraya,The war machine of Krishnadevaraya consists of strong cavalry which is enough to win the battle, Plus Vijayanagara empire at that time is a very rich empire , they can afford lengthy wars unlike Babur who is a Nomad at that time.

Krishna Devaraya also had an alliance with portugese who are the masters of Cannons at that time, He built some strong forts with Cannons in the South which are very difficult to invade.

As a Warrior: Krishnadevaraya used to personally lead his army against adversaries in the battlefield and showed amazing resourceful ness in overcoming obstacles in his path. During the siege of the Udayagiri fort, he got boulders and rocks smashed to make passage wider and smoother for the movement of his troops. He showed extraordinary courage even in the face of gravest danger. For instance during the siege of the fort of Raichur, when the first line of defense was broken by the artillery fire from the enemy, Krishnadevaraya who was in charge of the second line stood firm and exhorted his men to fight without caring for their lives. Motivated by his call his men fought heroically and won the battle. Krishnadevaraya loved and cared his men and on the conclusion of a battle used to go to the battlefield looking for the wounded, making arrangement to pick them and treat.

Southern India has one of the best rulers and warrior kings like Krishna devaraya and Raja Raja Chola, But our history only gives importance to some nomadic turks

 

[Assault Rifle]

Don't who will win but Uzbeks are much more warlike and ferocious people than South Indians.
Remember Timur was also an Uzbek.
Uzbeks also have significant Mongol genes.

 

[bornmoron]

WELL SAID !,,
We need people like subramanyam swamy to change our history books & not congress,,



Southern India has one of the best rulers and warrior kings like Krishna devaraya and Raja Raja Chola, But our history only gives importance to some nomadic turks [/QUOTE]

 

[SwatCat]

Don't who will win but Uzbeks are much more warlike and ferocious people than South Indians.
Remember Timur was also an Uzbek.
Uzbeks also have significant Mongol genes.

In war Battle tactics, Numerical superiority, training, economy, terrain and alliances come into the picture. If you consider these factors KrishnaDevaraya has advantage in most of them.

South India is interior India which experienced less wars compared to North India, this do not mean South Indians are not ferocious warriors.

 

[Assault Rifle]

In war Battle tactics, Numerical superiority, training, economy, terrain and alliances come into the picture. If you consider these factors KrishnaDevaraya has advantage in most of them.

South India is interior India which experienced less wars compared to North India, this do not mean South Indians are not ferocious warriors.

Central Asians have defeated foes which had far more numerical,economical superiority.
Also South Indians faced less war compared to central asians who were almost always at war thus they were less battle hardened.

 

[SwatCat]

Central Asians have defeated foes which had far more numerical,economical superiority.
Also South Indians faced less war compared to central asians who were almost always at war thus they were less battle hardened.

KrishnaDevaraya time in South India is a completely different one, he alone faced Adil shahi and Bahmani sultans.

 

[Assault Rifle]

KrishnaDevaraya time in South India is a completely different one, he alone faced Adil shahi and Bahmani sultans.

Adil Shah and Bahmanis were al persians.

They were nothing in front of uzbeks.

 

[takeiteasy]

Adil Shah and Bahmanis were al persians.

They were nothing in front of uzbeks.

one thing common is that the persians,turks and central asians are those who are into war and invasion. even the Scythians are considered nomadic barbarians who may have even practised Cannibalism on enemies. they never rested in their barren places instead tried to loot and capture Indian region. they were coming to India with their armies for invasion while Krishnadevaraya and the likes where defending their own territories or perhaps annexation of near by kingdoms. so, the battle hardened aggressive nomadic people whom Babur and others were, will be too much for the south Indian king.

while Vijayanagara dynasty's architecture penetrated all 4 South Indian states - For example, there is no Mughal architecture of significance in Tamilnadu but there are many significant architectures in Tamilnadu influenced by Vijayanagara architecture built by Nayaks the chieftains of Vijayanagara - For example, there are two significant ones - Srirangam temple and Madurai Meenakshi temple.

Krishnadevarayyas territory never covered Kerala IINM.

 

[Sashan]

The inherent weakness of Krishnadevaraya and the kingdom he set up was their adherence with Vaishnabism. No, the huge mass of Krishnadevaraya would have trampled themselves in battle with the mobile, better equipped, better trained, more motivated and better led army of Babur which had fashioned newer tactics in the course of endless battles it fought. In the long run too, the religious / cast division could not sustain any sizable southern Vaishnab kingdom.

Babur lost several battles with others. Especially failed to capture Samarkhand even after several attempts - so turned his attention to a weak Lodi who was detested by his own men and won the battle - There is nothing spectacular about him for you to claim that his army was better motivated than Krishanadevaraya's which was superior in numbers. History point out use of field artillery as Babur's tactics which Krishnadevaraya possessed in ample nos as to Babur's 24 cannons what he used against Lodi.

 

[ghaja]

Adil Shah and Bahmanis were al persians.

They were nothing in front of uzbeks.

The Vijayanagar rulers called the rulers of the Bahmani Sultanate Turks. In fact all the Deccan Sultans
were considered Turks by the Vijayanagar rulers.
And thats the reason why Krishnadevaraya received the title "destroyer of the Turks" after defeating
the Deccan Sultans.

 

[Vinod2070]

Southern India has one of the best rulers and warrior kings like Krishna devaraya and Raja Raja Chola, But our history only gives importance to some nomadic turks

There are many Indian rulers, both North and South Indians, who deserve much more attention in our history books.

I look at this whole invader period as just a small forgettable episode in our great Dharmic history, something that we need to take the right lessons from and then throw it out with the contempt it deserves.

Our real history is the Dharmic history and our peaceful interactions with the rest of the world. These primitive barbaric invaders with their primitive barbaric destructive ideology deserve no more than a small footnote.

Only job left is to roll back the destruction and all it's side effects and reclaim our glorious past. A job that has started and is going to pick pace in future.

 

[eastwatch]

I believe it would have been impossible for Babur to defeat Krishnadeva Raya, his kingdom flourished in most extreme conditions.

Babar was the underdog in all the wars he fought against his uncles in Farganah, in Kabul, in Delhi/Hindustan (1526) as well as in Bengal. Wars in the eastern front were the most difficult ones not only for Babar but also for Humayun, Akber as well as Jahangir. Only during Jahangir the entire Bengal was subdued in around 1605.

Babar's formidable enemy was Sultan Nasrat Shah who gave shelter to the Hindustani Pathans who were forced out of their power base when Babar defeated Sultan Ibrahim Lodi of Delhi in the Battle of 1st Panipath in 1526.

Mahmud Shah, the younger brother of slain Ibrahim, went with all his retinues and Pathan dependents to the Court of Sultan Nasrat Shah of Bengal and betrothed Ibrahim's daughter to him.

Anyway, it is a long history. But, there was a war between the troops of Bengal and Babar's. Babar did not win an outright war. But, the parties agreed to a mutually agreed border.

So, I wonder, if another Raja or Sultan of India in those days had the capability to counter Babar, specially when we see even Rana Sangram Singh could not achieve such a glory. He lost in the Battle of Khanua. Krishnadev Raya cannot possibly be counted as a formidable opponent, although history also attests that Vijapur maintained its independence from Delhi for many years.