Anti-Ahmedi laws and the constitution

[IamBengali]

@Spring Onion


What I said is true. They don't believe Mirza Gulam is a prophet.

)))))))))))))))) see the issue is that any NON-Muslim including Christians/Jews/Hindus etc etc are free to NOT believe in Quran . BUT Ahmedis aka qadyanis claim they are Muslims so either they should believe in Quran completely or declare themself NON-Muslims.

If a person says he is Muslim , he is Muslim. Case closed.

Sunni-Shias both believe in Finality of Muhammad's (PBUH) Prophethood. Their interpretation on other small issues can be accommodated.

Shias curse Jibrail for not passing message to Ali. Do you have any idea?

 

[Commander T]

No offense taken at all . well he claimed by using a collective phrase "we do not believe in the interpretation" obviously NO Muslim who believes in Quran will say that

But muslims should also read Quran themselves, and should compare texts of what has been said....
here is the Molana Ghamdi....he is not ahmadi..........what is says about Jesus Was raised to heaven bodily...

 

[SQ8]

There are a lot of distorted elements in all sects. The question is whether you divide on the basis of the exception or conglomerate on the basis of the common.

 

[IamBengali]

Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad did not claim to be a prophet in Haqiqat-ul-Wahy

No prophet after Holy Prophet Muhammad

Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad did not claim to be a prophet in "Haqiqat-ul-Wahy"

 

[Commander T]

@Spring Onion


What I said is true. They don't believe Mirza Gulam is a prophet.




If a person says he is Muslim , he is Muslim. Case closed.





Shias curse Jibrail for not passing message to Ali. Do you have any idea?

YES, we do believe he is a prophet but not a law bearing prophet but a prophet in Umat Muhammadiya under Prophet Muhammad PBUH........... there is not even a single line of shariah in Islamic Shariah law that has been added by Mizra Ghulam Ahmad Sahab and nor it can be added till The JUDGEMENT DAY..........

 

[Bratva]

yup, exactly ... kahatm is an arabic word and we need to understand it full fledge in true context and historical and Tafseeri use of hatam word in arabic language but i will not go in details of historic arabic language records but just to confirm you that what is our AQIDA regarding Hatam un Nabiyeen really is i have posted this video below.......and if you know that then Its a hadis that Ali is Hatam ul Auliya and Masjid e Nabvi is Hatam ul Masajid........why this difference....... this video is logical not about translation and tafseer so that a common man can know what propoganda has been done against Jamaat e Ahmaddiya... please watch this atleast once

It is been prophesied, World would be filled with peace after the arrival of Mahdi but why Fitna's still continue to arise after Mirza Qadiyani a.k.a The Mahdi??? A simple logical question that none of Qadiyani has never answered satisfactory

Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad did not claim to be a prophet in Haqiqat-ul-Wahy

No prophet after Holy Prophet Muhammad

Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad did not claim to be a prophet in "Haqiqat-ul-Wahy"

Bengali, Leave it. There are multiple books of Qadiyaani's in Urdu,written by his Son, the first caliph of qaidyanis after his death in bathroom, trying to proof Mirza Qdiyani was a a prophet and infact a reincarnation of Jesus and Mahdi.

YES, we do believe he is a prophet but not a law bearing prophet but a prophet in Umat Muhammadiya under Prophet Muhammad PBUH........... there is not even a single line of shariah in Islamic Shariah law that has been added by Mizra Ghulam Ahmad Sahab and nor it can be added till The JUDGEMENT DAY..........

What was the need of Prophet after Prophet (P.B.U.H) where Muhmmad (PBUH) only declared only Mujadid (Reformers) would come after me, once a century? Or you could point me to a proper authentic reference where Prophet (PBUH) said prophet would come after me?

 

[Fracker]

yup, exactly ... kahatm is an arabic word and we need to understand it full fledge in true context and historical and Tafseeri use of hatam word in arabic language but i will not go in details of historic arabic language records but just to confirm you that what is our AQIDA regarding Hatam un Nabiyeen really is i have posted this video below.......and if you know that then Its a hadis that Ali is Hatam ul Auliya and Masjid e Nabvi is Hatam ul Masajid........why this difference....... this video is logical not about translation and tafseer so that a common man can know what propoganda has been done against Jamaat e Ahmaddiya... please watch this atleast once

kindly quote the hadith. From the words, Khatim is not same word as hatam or hakim. Khatim is for finish, while hatam or hakim is for leader.

I didn't see the hadith, but if you give the reference then can explain pretty well..

Youtube video is not a way of communication, you can say anything and upload it doesn't matter since it can't be replied.

 

[Spring Onion]

YES, we do believe he is a prophet but not a law bearing prophet but a prophet in Umat Muhammadiya under Prophet Muhammad PBUH........... there is not even a single line of shariah in Islamic Shariah law that has been added by Mizra Ghulam Ahmad Sahab and nor it can be added till The JUDGEMENT DAY..........

hence qadyanis are NOT Muslims.

Since Prophethood as described in Quran ends at Muhammad (PBUH).

 

[IamBengali]

In Bangladesh the Ahmedis say they don't believe Mirza Gulam is a prophet. They say its kufr to say he is prophet (nabi). They say he is a reformer. Like Shias say Muhammad is the last prophet but Ali is the reformer and waliullah.

 

[Spring Onion]

In Bangladesh the Ahmedis say they don't believe Mirza Gulam is a prophet. They say its kufr to say he is prophet (nabi). They say he is a reformer. Like Shias say Muhammad is the last prophet but Ali is the reformer and waliullah.

BUT they dont say anything like that here.

They are hell bent upon negating Quran and at the same time want fully copy rights of title "Muslim"

 

[ssethii]

If Ahmedis don't believe That Jesus Christ being raised to the heavens, Do they believe in Shab-e-Mi'raj?

 

[Commander T]

In Bangladesh the Ahmedis say they don't believe Mirza Gulam is a prophet. They say its kufr to say he is prophet (nabi). They say he is a reformer. Like Shias say Muhammad is the last prophet but Ali is the reformer and waliullah.

yes, indeed he is a reformer...... but a subordinate prophet too.... the problem lies here when we don't understand the true meaning of what has been said......... Ahmadis have 2 sect a lahori group(which says that Mirza sahab was a reformer and mehdi but not prophet), they also call themself ahmadi......but they have been seperated from mainstream ahmadiyya we we do believe that mirza sahab was a subordinate prophet (well, a prophet is who has Wahi (the devine messege) recieved, this defination cannot be more simpler, although it has deep meaning)......... who can neither add something in Shariah Law nor can made his own shariah........... but he is indeed a reformer of islam...... for more deep understanding we need to understand the status of imam mehdi.......if imam mehdi was simply a reformer then why to call him imam mehdi as there were reformers in every century......imam mehdi has indeed a special status and there has been a hadees too perhaps about the status of imam mehdi of being a prophet but i am searching for it and this all mixed up when we start believeing that Jesus was raised to heaven with body....when it has been clear from several verses of quran. that he is not comming back, he is dead.....

 

[SQ8]

yes, indeed he is a reformer...... but a subordinate prophet too.... the problem lies here when we don't understand the true meaning of what has been said......... Ahmadis have 2 sect a lahori group(which says that Mirza sahab was a reformer and mehdi but not prophet), they also call themself ahmadi......but they have been seperated from mainstream ahmadiyya we we do believe that mirza sahab was a subordinate prophet (well, a prophet is who has Wahi (the devine messege) recieved, this defination cannot be more simpler, although it has deep meaning)......... who can neither add something in Shariah Law nor can made his own shariah........... but he is indeed a reformer of islam...... for more deep understanding we need to understand the status of imam mehdi.......if imam mehdi was simply a reformer then why to call him imam mehdi as there were reformers in every century......imam mehdi has indeed a special status and there has been a hadees too perhaps about the status of imam mehdi of being a prophet but i am searching for it and this all mixed up when we start believeing that Jesus was raised to heaven with body....when it has been clear from several verses of quran. that he is not comming back, he is dead.....

And that is where the mainstream Islamic world cannot recognize you as a Muslim. And I have no qualms in saying that. Since this is not a matter of vague interpretations.. but rather a concrete cornerstone of faith. I have met the great grandson of Mirza Qadiyani.. and he states exactly what the Lahori group states.. the narrative keeps changing on and on. In either case, the issue is about the laws.. and the laws are based on the cornerstone.

I agree that the laws should not include the word Ahmedi to refer directly to the Qadiyanis as that is sheer directed discrimination. The law should however hold that those who do not believe in the finally of the prophet(i.e NO FURTHER Prophets after him) are to be declared non-Muslims and will be classified as such in official documentation. On that particular note.. be it christians ,"true" Qadiyanis as you state or any other religion may continue as non-Muslim members of society.

 

[Commander T]

Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad did not claim to be a prophet in Haqiqat-ul-Wahy

No prophet after Holy Prophet Muhammad

Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad did not claim to be a prophet in "Haqiqat-ul-Wahy"

"The Promised Messiah will be a Prophet of God." (Muslim vol.2 pg.
515) got it here is the reference...... imam mehdi does has a different status

kindly quote the hadith. From the words, Khatim is not same word as hatam or hakim. Khatim is for finish, while hatam or hakim is for leader.

I didn't see the hadith, but if you give the reference then can explain pretty well..

Youtube video is not a way of communication, you can say anything and upload it doesn't matter since it can't be replied.

i am sorry i misunderstood, it was a qoute by Hazrat Ayesha RA her is it..... but there are several qoutes of renowned old scholar including shah walliullah and several others about hatam meaning ...first here is the Hazrat Ayesha RA qoute
“From Hazrat Aisha (Allah be pleased with her): The Prophet(SAW) said I am the last Prophet and my mosque is the last mosque among the mosques of all the prophets”.
(Kanzul Ummal, Vol.12, p.270, Hadith No.34999)

Here the words LAST has been translated from HATAM......... now tell me, we should demolish all the mosques after Masjid e Nabvi......
there has also been a qoute about hazrat ali....as calling hazrat Ali as HATAM UL AULIYA and HE PBUH calling his Uncle as HATAM UL MAHAJAREEN........so were they the last ones... i have not qouted about hazrat Ali and Huzoor,s PBUH uncle becuase i am searching for full reference..... book has been mentioned but not full reference is there.... meanwhile you check out the meaning of HATAM in the eyes of PROMINENT old scholars...
A well known scholor, Hadhrat Abu Abdullah Muhammadd bin Ali Hussain
Al Hakam of Tirmidhi has said:

"How can the glory and superiority of Muhammad (saw) be manifested
if we claim that he was the last in time to appear in the world? This is
no doubt, an interpretation of the foolish and the ignorant." (Kitab
Khatamal Auliya p. 341)

Shah Waliullah Muhaddas of Delhi writes:

"Muhammad (saw) was the last of the Prophets in the sense that there
will appear no one after him to promulgate a new law for the people.
(Tafheemat-i-Ilahiyya, pg. 53)

Syed Abdul Qadir Jeelani stated:

"The prophetic law is finished and completed with the Holy Prophet
because he was the called Al Khatuman Nabiyyan." (Al-Insanul Kamil
ch. 36)

Maulana Abdul Haye of Lukhnow says:

"It is Not impossible that a new prophet may appear during or after the
age of Muhammad but bringing of a new code of religion is an absolute
impossiblity." (Dafi-ul-Wasawis fee Asr ibn Abbas pg. 12)

Hadhrat Sheik Ahmad Sirhindhi has said:

"The attainment of high characteristics of prophethood by way of
obiedience and inheritence after the coming of the Khatuman Nabiyyin
is not against being Khatam." (Maktoobat Ima Rabbani pg. 432)

Sheikul Akbar Muyud Din Ibn Arabi also states:

"The prophethood which has ceased the Prophet of God (saw) is only
the prophethood with law and not the status of prophethod. So there
will be no other institute added to it. So Prophethood has not completly
disappeared." (Futoohati Makkiyya vol.2 pgs. 3 and 64)

Hadhrat Shah Wali Ullah of Delhi writes:

"From the sayings of the Holy Prophet la Nabiyyat B'adi and la Rasool,
we came to understand that prophethood that has ceased the Holy
Prophet is the Law-bearing prophethood." (Qirat Ainai Fi Tafadhulul
Shaikhain, pg. 39)

Mullah Ali al Qari has stated:

"According to the Ulema the words La Nabiyya Badee mean that no
prophet shall be raised who shall abrogate the Law of the Holy Prophet
(saw)" (Al Isha at Fi Ashraqatus Saat pg. 226)

Maulana Rum has stated:

He was the Khatam because no one in generosity, Has ever been like
him before nor shall ever be. When an artisan excels to the exellence in
his craft, Do you not say to him that the craftmenship has now come to
an end?" (Mathnavi Maulana Rum ch. 6)

Hadhrat Maulvi Abul Qasem Nanotvi stated:

"In the conception of the masses the Holy Prophet (saw) was Khatam in
the sense that he came after all the other prophets and he was the last
prophet of all. But it is evident that in the estimation of the wise no
superiority whatever attaches to precedence in time or its reverse."
(Tah-zirunnas, Saharanpur pg3)

The Holy Prophet's Wife, Hadhart Aaiysha also has spoken on this subject:

"Say that he is Al Khatuman Nabiyyan (the Seal of Prophets) but do not
say he is the last of all Prophets." (Takmala Majma ul Bihar pg.188;
and Manthur)

There are so many more sayings of Companions let me just write down the
references to them for now:

Imam Muhammad Tahir Gujrati also says the same thing Takmala Majma
ul Bihar pg. 85)

Imam Sha'araani as well supports the same notion. (Al Yawaqeet Wal
Jawahir, vol.2 pg.22)

Nawab Siddique Hasan Khan as well (Iqtarabus Saa pg. 162)

Imam Soyooti as well writes simular (Durr-i-Mansoor)

Shiek Hadhrat Moyiudin Ibn Arabi further comments on it more (Fatuhaati
Makkiyya vol.1 pg 545) Note: he has stated it twice in the same book.

Hadhrat Maulvi Abul Qasem Nanotvi, the renowned founder of Deoband
Academy stated it as well (Tah zirunnas, Saharanpur, pg.3)


A well known scholor, Hadhrat Abu Abdullah Muhammadd bin Ali Hussain
Al Hakam of Tirmidhi has said:

"How can the glory and superiority of Muhammad (saw) be manifested
if we claim that he was the last in time to appear in the world? This is
no doubt, an interpretation of the foolish and the ignorant." (Kitab
Khatamal Auliya p. 341)

Shah Waliullah Muhaddas of Delhi writes:

"Muhammad (saw) was the last of the Prophets in the sense that there
will appear no one after him to promulgate a new law for the people.
(Tafheemat-i-Ilahiyya, pg. 53)

Syed Abdul Qadir Jeelani stated:

"The prophetic law is finished and completed with the Holy Prophet
because he was the called Al Khatuman Nabiyyan." (Al-Insanul Kamil
ch. 36)

Maulana Abdul Haye of Lukhnow says:

"It is Not impossible that a new prophet may appear during or after the
age of Muhammad but bringing of a new code of religion is an absolute
impossiblity." (Dafi-ul-Wasawis fee Asr ibn Abbas pg. 12)

Hadhrat Sheik Ahmad Sirhindhi has said:

"The attainment of high characteristics of prophethood by way of
obiedience and inheritence after the coming of the Khatuman Nabiyyin
is not against being Khatam." (Maktoobat Ima Rabbani pg. 432)

Sheikul Akbar Muyud Din Ibn Arabi also states:

"The prophethood which has ceased the Prophet of God (saw) is only
the prophethood with law and not the status of prophethod. So there
will be no other institute added to it. So Prophethood has not completly
disappeared." (Futoohati Makkiyya vol.2 pgs. 3 and 64)

Hadhrat Shah Wali Ullah of Delhi writes:

"From the sayings of the Holy Prophet la Nabiyyat B'adi and la Rasool,
we came to understand that prophethood that has ceased the Holy
Prophet is the Law-bearing prophethood." (Qirat Ainai Fi Tafadhulul
Shaikhain, pg. 39)

Mullah Ali al Qari has stated:

"According to the Ulema the words La Nabiyya Badee mean that no
prophet shall be raised who shall abrogate the Law of the Holy Prophet
(saw)" (Al Isha at Fi Ashraqatus Saat pg. 226)

Maulana Rum has stated:

He was the Khatam because no one in generosity, Has ever been like
him before nor shall ever be. When an artisan excels to the exellence in
his craft, Do you not say to him that the craftmenship has now come to
an end?" (Mathnavi Maulana Rum ch. 6)

Hadhrat Maulvi Abul Qasem Nanotvi stated:

"In the conception of the masses the Holy Prophet (saw) was Khatam in
the sense that he came after all the other prophets and he was the last
prophet of all. But it is evident that in the estimation of the wise no
superiority whatever attaches to precedence in time or its reverse."
(Tah-zirunnas, Saharanpur pg3)

The Holy Prophet's Wife, Hadhart Aaiysha also has spoken on this subject:

"Say that he is Al Khatuman Nabiyyan (the Seal of Prophets) but do not
say he is the last of all Prophets." (Takmala Majma ul Bihar pg.188;
and Manthur)

There are so many more sayings of Companions let me just write down the
references to them for now:

Imam Muhammad Tahir Gujrati also says the same thing Takmala Majma
ul Bihar pg. 85)

Imam Sha'araani as well supports the same notion. (Al Yawaqeet Wal
Jawahir, vol.2 pg.22)

Nawab Siddique Hasan Khan as well (Iqtarabus Saa pg. 162)

Imam Soyooti as well writes simular (Durr-i-Mansoor)

Shiek Hadhrat Moyiudin Ibn Arabi further comments on it more (Fatuhaati
Makkiyya vol.1 pg 545) Note: he has stated it twice in the same book.

Hadhrat Maulvi Abul Qasem Nanotvi, the renowned founder of Deoband
Academy stated it as well (Tah zirunnas, Saharanpur, pg.3)

So as we come to the conclusion of these great scholors, we should see that
the prophethood which has ended with the Holy Prophet (saw) as Khatuman
Nabiyyin, is only the prophethood with law, prophethood can come as long
as the prophet serves his purpose which is to guide mankind to the correct
path. But lets not end it there we forgot the sayings of the Holy Prophet
Muhammad (saw) as well, so:

The Holy Prophet (saw) states:

" Had Ibhrahim (his son) Lived he would have been a truthful Prophet."
(Ibn Mahja vol.1 pg. 237; Khitab ul Janiaz)

This Hadith has been further elaborated on by a Companion:
Mullah Ali Al Qari states:

"If Ibhrahim had lived and had become a Prophet and in the same way
Umar had become a Prophet, both would have been followers of the
Holy Prophet (saw) like Jesus khizr and Ilyas. So it would not contridict
the word of God Al Khatuman Nabiyyan, because its meaning is that
there will not come a Prophet who cancels his law and who is not from
his followers." (Mauzuate Kabir pg. 69)



"The Promised Messiah will be a Prophet of God." (Muslim vol.2 pg.
515)

 

[Commander T]

And that is where the mainstream Islamic world cannot recognize you as a Muslim. And I have no qualms in saying that. Since this is not a matter of vague interpretations.. but rather a concrete cornerstone of faith. I have met the great grandson of Mirza Qadiyani.. and he states exactly what the Lahori group states.. the narrative keeps changing on and on. In either case, the issue is about the laws.. and the laws are based on the cornerstone.

I agree that the laws should not include the word Ahmedi to refer directly to the Qadiyanis as that is sheer directed discrimination. The law should however hold that those who do not believe in the finally of the prophet(i.e NO FURTHER Prophets after him) are to be declared non-Muslims and will be classified as such in official documentation. On that particular note.. be it christians ,"true" Qadiyanis as you state or any other religion may continue as non-Muslim members of society.

Well , if you see situation was same in Prophet PBUH,s era everybody thought that He PBUH has left his elders religion.. but actually He PBUH was the only one who was on the religion of HIS Elders----Hazrat IBRAHIM AS........... we have also been blamed of same .....but we too don't care...........we were weak but God has given us strenth..... our duty is just to divever the messege(Islam) in it,s full, real and perfect form.... BTW whom have you met and where...... and lahori group has perhaps only difference is that they say mirza sahab was not a prophet........ My question is, is will decide that who is muslim and who is not...?