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AMCA configuration in final stages

What personal attacks retrad ??? Asked a simple question. You brag to answer and fail. And now blaming me for that ???? So lame comredoooo :rofl:

Where the fu@k I said anything about Kaveri ??? Thank you for your nonessential assessment we all know Kaveri failed to power LCA. So your point ??? Or just want to avoid your earlier stance to hep people. :rofl: :rofl:

Hey what happen faithful ??? You cring or what girl ??? Reply soon I got to go to work too. Nobody is going to pay me 50 cents here

Kaveri is a poor failure of an engine. That is the discussion that we were on until you start with personal attacks to deviate from the topic.
 
You are delusional on Kaveri issue...

1. Kaveri didn't failed rather requirement was changed. Its like I first asked 500cc bike, in mid course I changed my requirement to 1000cc bike..

2. Kaveri for AMCA is different project
3. Kaveri for Ships is different project
4. Kaveri for UAV is different project...

These are simply not true.

1. Kaveri had always been tasked with powering the LCA. When it couldn't do that, it has failed its goal.
2. Same project. Or it won't be called Kaveri.
3. Same project. It's a face saving move by DRDO to re-brand a dead project to get more funding. Expect it will go nowhere.
4. Same project. Same as 3.
 
lol a high school project can make much better model than this cr*p did by Indians```
india cannot make airborn AESA/PESA radar for fighter jets, cant make airborn weapons, cant make advanced aivonics. cant even make turbojet engine, and cant even design basic areodynamics, and now day dreaming 'indeginous' 5th gen fighters? :D

only retards will believe it will happen within at least 2 decades
 
Kaveri is a poor failure of an engine. That is the discussion that we were on until you start with personal attacks to deviate from the topic.

Oh really ??? I though I commented on your trying to help the poepole thing :D what happen to help the cat get outta ditch ??? You started it. You get. Not my fault sisy comredoooo.

On personal attack thing lie your comrades would say... I felt sorry :no:
 
I like to share facts with you guys as many Indians here are factually challenged. When you say 1+1=3, I have to correct you. When you see a cat fell into a ditch, you need to rescue it. Its just human nature that I help people in need.

:blah::blah::blah::blah:
 
lol a high school project can make much better model than this cr*p did by Indians```

Even if a high school student makes something , I am sure chinese experts will only know to copying that too.

india cannot make airborn AESA/PESA radar for fighter jets, cant make airborn weapons, cant make advanced aivonics. cant even make turbojet engine, and cant even design basic areodynamics, and now day dreaming 'indeginous' 5th gen fighters? :D

:blah::blah:

only retards will believe it will happen within at least 2 decades

I am humbled to know that chinese believe it .....:lol:
 
These are simply not true.

1. Kaveri had always been tasked with powering the LCA. When it couldn't do that, it has failed its goal.
2. Same project. Or it won't be called Kaveri.
3. Same project. It's a face saving move by DRDO to re-brand a dead project to get more funding. Expect it will go nowhere.
4. Same project. Same as 3.

Another Us citizen working absoultly in non-US TIME. :rofl: well won't go in time zone details.
I appreciate your hard work here. You are working when most of the Amerians are sleeping ;)

To the topic:
1. Correct. Kaveri failed to power LCA for now. So a failed project.
Simple thing to comprehend if you can, Project Kaveri is failed only in LCA context. Engine Kaveri is working and it's always open to be used in the PROJECTS where it can be.
2,3,4: let it be you are not even going to understand what a project means ;)
 
These are simply not true.

1. Kaveri had always been tasked with powering the LCA. When it couldn't do that, it has failed its goal.
2. Same project. Or it won't be called Kaveri.
3. Same project. It's a face saving move by DRDO to re-brand a dead project to get more funding. Expect it will go nowhere.
4. Same project. Same as 3.

The problem with DRDO is that failed to rename the project every time when hurdles are met .

Just like super sabre turned super 7 turned into JF17.

Just like j9 turned into j10 became a great success after 40 years in developement.

If powering an aircraft is benchmark for success of an engine , then every chinese engine is a failure
 
lol a high school project can make much better model than this cr*p did by Indians```
india cannot make airborn AESA/PESA radar for fighter jets, cant make airborn weapons, cant make advanced aivonics. cant even make turbojet engine, and cant even design basic areodynamics, and now day dreaming 'indeginous' 5th gen fighters? :D

only retards will believe it will happen within at least 2 decades

So basically you wana say your great nation is purchasing engines from Russia because you don't have high schools in China ??? Woo that's lame comredoooo :rofl:
 
lol a high school project can make much better model than this cr*p did by Indians```

Cr*p is the word associated with Chinese. How is your high school chinese physics coming on?
 
We don't and not only according to IAF standards, but according to those ADA and DRDO set up at the begining. What about the TWR of 1, what about the AoA of 24 degrees, the speed and G limits, the 81kN of Kaveri engine, or the 5.5t emptyweight?
It is not IAFs fault to ask the manufacturers to provide, what they promised or what their own standards were.
IAF has their own part of the problems and I have critisized that often too, but using them to distract from the facts and to not hold the industry accountable for their mistakes and failures is not getting us anywhere.

Kaveri does produce a thrust of 82 kN. I am really surprised since when the culture of blaming the Indian Industry started, not that I am a fan boy of it.

Kaveri is among few engines to be developed to withstand conditions like hot deserts and high mountain ranges. GTRE is currently working on bringing the fan pressure ratio to 4:1 and overall pressure ratio up to 27:1, which is more than enough to supercruise, and it was not easy to develop FADEC , KADECU ,AMAGB , power take off etc etc in the very first go.

So we must understand that there were some significant developments happening in our country and would continue to happen,

We have to finish what we started, have to fix the problems, get the fighter into serial production and induct it into squadron service, but moreover we have to assess the things that went wrong in the project, take people that were responsible to account and learn to not do the same mistakes again. Then and only then we can say we have achieved soemething!

Not all aircraft's in the world are subjected to 2000 flight tests. We did not begin with a good industrial support as we did not have any. Indian Aerospace Industries boomed and blossomed along with Project LCA ,If only we had the industrial support before initiating this project then I would have stood by your comments.

I am not willing to look India through the eyes of competition. We might not be competent but we sure are eligible.


What technical know how? Do we know about stealth design now? As I said, we even have major problems in normal aero design, let alone to mix it with stealth in mind.
We have no know how in fighter engine development, let alone a 5 th gen engine.
We have just basic know how of 4 th gen puls doppler radar development, but haven't fielded a single fighter radar yet. AESA developments are only in early stages, far away from beeing used even in LCA, let alone a 5 th gen fighter.

What if I say yes we know? Read publications from institutions like C-DAC ,IISC, IIT and you would really come to know that this nation has everything to go ahead with AMCA.

I am really clueless on how easy is it for you to believe that a 4th Gen pulse doppler radar is basic, provided the technology of airborne radars is very complex. The MMR development is being done for the first time in the country with no prior expertise in the country. AESA developments are on and miniaturization of it is underway.

What we do have is, know how in materials, cockpit avionics and EW, that's why these are the fields where we can contribute to a NG development and why these are the only fields where we can contribute to FGFA.




Because it's meant to be our fighter and if we COULD contribute more like you claimed, we would not simply choose Russian AESA, but integrate our own. As said, the fact is that we can't and that's why we didn't chose to not contribute more, but we were limited to such a low contribution.
That's also why we couldn provide an own engine, because we couldn't even develop an engine for LCA MK1, nor can we further develop it alone for LCA MK2 or AMCA.

That is the reality of Indias industrial capability in the aero field today and denying it, makes us just weaker!

It would be complete injustice to re create an available technology for an aircraft similar in design and more over we have just started researching on a 5th generation radar technology and are not proficient enough like the Russians, but it is unfair to believe that India cannot make a 5th generation fighter, provided the time line the Team AMCA has given.

I repeat what I have said earlier. We now have a platform of research and it would certainly be a proving factor. I am a personal witness to the change this country is undergoing.
 
@ WHITESMOKE

I guess I have mentioned most of the things you talked about in my reply to India Army, my point is that there is a serious lack of reality in our thinking and our assement of what is doable and what is needed.

As I often showed on PDF, there is no requirement for a second stealth fighter in IAF, since it won't offer any operational advantages over FGFA, the only point is, it is "more Indian", but that imo is not a good reason to waste billions of taxpayers money, that could be used for more important defence related procurements.
So this is just another development, for the wrong reasons!

The on need for AMCA is in IN as a carrier fighter for IAC 2, especially since we don't have a 5th gen fighter for them so far and because they will be the spearhead to project power in future. IN has already stated their interest in such a fighter, but we doing the same mistake again that we did with LCA, making it too complicated by first developing an airforce version and then re-design ot to a naval version.
Keep in mind that ADA messed up the navalising of LCA as well and navalising an AMCA, even for the possible use with catapults is waaaaaay more difficult, so all those who think we have gained anything for a naval AMCA, because we now have N-LCA, are highly mistaken!!!

I'm sorry, but so far I don't see the changes, we still are at the basics, haven't achieved anything yet, but keep dreaming about things that even are difficult for countries that are far ahead of us. Keep it simple and think about the needs of the forces first!

Simple example, DRDO messed up radar and engine developments and still are dreaming about AESA radar, 5th cockpit for LCA MK2 and even a stealthy MK3, at the same time ADA made the whole LCA project even more complicated, by developing N-LCA at the side, which requirers to mix up requirements of IAF and IN for the MK2.

The better choice would have been, to integrate not only a foreign engine to LCA MK2, but also a foreign AESA (logically Rafales, since we produce it under licence in India). Not to develop N-LCA, but to increase the number of Mig 29s (and now comes the important part!) with higher Indian content!
IN is the biggest customer of Mig 29Ks, even more than RuN will operate, so why didn't we go for an Indian radar, why don't we think about integrating Kaveri into Mig 29s?
So instead developing a single engine less capable carrier fighter and making LCA development more complicated, DRDO should develop the indigenous AESA to replace Zhuk ME radars in the Migs, just like they should focus on improving and integrating Kaveri engine to replace RD33 engines. That would make our own developments useful within this decade and not only in the next one and more importantly, makes us / IN less dependen on Russia too.
At the same time, the LCA development would completely focused on IAFs requirement only and would be way easier as well.

But that is the problem, we (ADA/DRDO mainly) don't think about small steps, because a Russian fighter with Indian radar and engine might be an achievement, but still is a Russian fighter, no matter how much more capable it would be. It's more prestigious to develop an "indigenous carrier fighter" for an "indigenous carrier" and to claim that we have achieved something that only very few other countries can either.

OP indicates that ADA emphasizes more on strike capability while designing AMCA.

FGFA will be multi role but I am sure It's designers have emphasized on A2A capacity of FGFA.

Just like Rafael is multi role but better suited for A2G role.

In this context decision to develop AMCA is right.

DRDO should develop the indigenous AESA to replace Zhuk ME radars in the Migs, just like they should focus on improving and integrating Kaveri engine to replace RD33 engines.

Replacing Zhuk ME with Indigenous ASEA is good idea but replacing Rd33MK3 with Kaveri is not good idea. Kaveri will take more time. 1st option is within reach.
 
Another Us citizen working absoultly in non-US TIME. :rofl: well won't go in time zone details.
I appreciate your hard work here. You are working when most of the Amerians are sleeping ;)

Why do you assume I browsed PDF during work? I looked at PDF in non-working hours, like at night. Oh wait. I forgot. You Indians like to slack off during work. Cheating on company time to browse the net during work comes natural for you. You are seriously stupid to project your own lack of ethnic into others. Well, let's not go into the detail of your intelligence cause there ain't any.

To the topic:
1. Correct. Kaveri failed to power LCA for now. So a failed project.
Simple thing to comprehend if you can, Project Kaveri is failed only in LCA context. Engine Kaveri is working and it's always open to be used in the PROJECTS where it can be.
2,3,4: let it be you are not even going to understand what a project means ;)

Kaveri is not working, yet. It had only one primitive in air test to run for a short time. How do you know it won't blow up if it run any longer?

The problem with DRDO is that failed to rename the project every time when hurdles are met .

The problem with DRDO is that it can't deliver on planned projects, and keep on wasting tons of money on dead projects. Hey, it does very well in keeping bunch of know-nothing sitting around doing nothing. Keep up the good work.
 
lol a high school project can make much better model than this cr*p did by Indians```
india cannot make airborn AESA/PESA radar for fighter jets, cant make airborn weapons, cant make advanced aivonics. cant even make turbojet engine, and cant even design basic areodynamics, and now day dreaming 'indeginous' 5th gen fighters? :D

only retards will believe it will happen within at least 2 decades

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LSTAR





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Laghushakti

Even if a high school student makes something , I am sure chinese experts will only know to copying that too.



:blah::blah:



I am humbled to know that chinese believe it .....:lol:

refute what he is saying with points and proofs. counter-trolling is not a good option
 
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