After S-400, More Contracts On The Way: Rosoboronexport

[Safriz]

There is a whole thread with over 10 pgs going on PDF. I'm sure you're well aware every country would get different versions based on their requirements or advancements made by the Russians over the course of time

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/wow-...ssia-can-launch-72-missiles-at-one-go.580329/

Makes no sense...
Each S-400 Launcher launches 4 Missiles.
72 Divide by 4 equals 18.
So India is only buying 18 Launchers?

 

[Cobra Arbok]

Incorrect. Strategically speaking, US gains nothing from India having S-400s. Tactically though US has used the S-400 deal to force India procure NASAMS-II from the US.

The US wants India to help advance its interests in the Asia Pacific region and help counter Chinese expansion, and help its position in Afghanistan, and the S400 will help India achieve those goals by negating Paksitan's ballistic missiles and lowering the superiority of Chinese Missiles. That's why both Pompeo and Mattis do not want to sanction India. Now the question is how accepting India will be of US objectives, and that remains to be seen. I have a feeling that improved ties with China and greater participation in BRICS and SCI will cause India to gradually move away from the US. Not to mention, the 2-400 and other deals will make the military threat Pakistan poses almost nonexistent, so India won't need to seek US support in that regard. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

The US wants India to help advance its interests in the Asia Pacific region and help counter Chinese expansion, and help its position in Afghanistan, and the S400 will help India achieve those goals by negating Paksitan's ballistic missiles and lowering the superiority of Chinese Missiles. That's why both Pompeo and Mattis do not want to sanction India. Now the question is how accepting India will be of US objectives, and that remains to be seen. I have a feeling that improved ties with China and greater participation in BRICS and SCI will cause India to gradually move away from the US. Not to mention, the 2-400 and other deals will make the military threat Pakistan poses almost nonexistent, so India won't need to seek US support in that regard. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

I think you are totally misreading the situation.

1) Both China and India deploying S-400 would result in a MAD type of scenario even for conventional warfare. This will force both China & India to improve peace and cooperation. With this improved Sino-Indian relations, China would attain more freedom to focus its energies on East and South China seas. How does this help the US?

2) Why would India attaining more superiority over Pakistan help the US? India is next in line after China has been neutralized and Pakistan would come in very handy to confront India down the line.

 

[Papa Dragon]

Makes no sense...
Each S-400 Launcher launches 4 Missiles.
72 Divide by 4 equals 18.
So India is only buying 18 Launchers?

5 battalions each consisting 8 launchers making it a total of 40 launchers

Makes no sense...
Each S-400 Launcher launches 4 Missiles.
72 Divide by 4 equals 18.
So India is only buying 18 Launchers?

India signed the deal for 5 regiments of S-400 having 15 battalions for $6 billions whereas China has bought 2 regiments having 6 battalions for $3 billions. Chinese S-400 does not comes with 40N6 missile having 400 kms range whereas India would get them since we're a member of MTCR

Regarding launchers and missiles, you stated each battalion will have 8 launchers with 32 missiles in each but reports state that we're getting an upgraded version which could accommodate 72 missiles either by increasing the launchers or some other modification. All in all, I'm sure IA/IAF would also never reveal the actual capabilities of the version we're procuring

 

[randomradio]

PAC-3 MSE is relatively superior system, and its technicalities are largely classified. What is known is that it achieve HTK intercepts, and only S-500 is build on this principle among Russian options.

The 40Km and 120Km versions of the S-400 are HTK also.

Disclosure from an Indian military professional: https://theprint.in/security/bustin...00-indias-latest-military-acquisition/130479/

That Indian officer would know better than anybody here, for sure. I would take his disclosure seriously.

Everything he says is wrong. He does not have actual information, just stuff the read in the media.

It could even be an attempt at disinformation.

Makes no sense...
Each S-400 Launcher launches 4 Missiles.
72 Divide by 4 equals 18.
So India is only buying 18 Launchers?

1 regiment = 2 battalions = 4 batteries. Some regiments can also have 3 battalions.

Each regiment has a minimum of 16 launchers, which can climb up to 24 if necessary.

Also, each launcher can carry 16 smaller missiles. So you can expect at least one launcher from each battery to have 1 launcher with 16 missiles. That's 4 launchers in a regiment out of 16, which is 64 missiles at the minimum. The remaining 12 launchers can carry 48 long range missiles. So a total of 112 missiles per regiment.

Each regiment can launch 72 missiles at once out of its total load of 112 missiles. So multiply that by 5.

 

[Safriz]

The 40Km and 120Km versions of the S-400 are HTK also.



Everything he says is wrong. He does not have actual information, just stuff the read in the media.

It could even be an attempt at disinformation.



1 regiment = 2 battalions = 4 batteries. Some regiments can also have 3 battalions.

Each regiment has a minimum of 16 launchers, which can climb up to 24 if necessary.

Also, each launcher can carry 16 smaller missiles. So you can expect at least one launcher from each battery to have 1 launcher with 16 missiles. That's 4 launchers in a regiment out of 16, which is 64 missiles at the minimum. The remaining 12 launchers can carry 48 long range missiles. So a total of 112 missiles per regiment.

Each regiment can launch 72 missiles at once out of its total load of 112 missiles. So multiply that by 5.

India is buying 5 battalions not 5 regiments. Even Russia themselves don't have 5 regiments of S-400

 

[Fawadqasim1]

India to buy 5 Battalions of S-400 Missile system.
Each Battalion will have 8 launchers, bringing the total number of launchers bought by India to 40.
Each Battalion of 8 launchers will have 32 Missiles ready to fire at 4 on each of the 8 launchers.
The total number of ready to fire Missiles on all 40 Launchers being bought by India at any given time will be 160.
Each launcher will have two sets of 4 missiles on the standby in the field. That brings the total number of on the standby missiles across all 5 Battalions at 320.The Re-load time is 5 Minutes.
With 160 ready to fire and 320 on the standby , India will have 480 Surface to air S-400 missiles deployed .
India will buy or manufacture a total of 6000 missiles for S-400 system.
The S-400 system has a maximum target detection range of 600 Km.
The S-400 Missile system can engage aerodynamic targets at Maximum range of 250 Km and maximum altitude of 27 Km.
The S-400 system can engage Non-Aerodynamic targets or Ballistic missiles at a maximum range of 60 Km and Altitude of 27 Km.
This is because the S-400 Missile needs to remain in atmosphere for maneuverability.
In case of Ballistic Missiles the S-400 system cannot track anything flying at above 4800 M/Sec or Mach 14.5.

Is buying 5 regiments each regiment consists of two battalions each battalions has 8 launchers Which means up to total of at least 80 launchers 80×4= 320 missiles loaded

 

[Osiris]

India is buying 5 battalions not 5 regiments. Even Russia themselves don't have 5 regiments of S-400

Russia had 5 regiments back in 2013 itself.

 

[randomradio]

India is buying 5 battalions not 5 regiments. Even Russia themselves don't have 5 regiments of S-400

No, it's 5 regiments. China's ordered 6 battalions in 2 regiments for $3B. India's ordered 5 regiments with unknown number of battalions for $5.4B. So we have ordered 10 battalions at the minimum. And we will be producing 6000 missiles with license.

The Russians have ordered 58 battalions in 28 regiments. Moscow alone has 5 regiments.

 

[LeGenD]

The 40Km and 120Km versions of the S-400 are HTK also.

Oh please! You think S-400 is a magic system which can do anything? HTK intercepts do not occur out of thin air - entire system is designed and optimized for this end, from scratch.

Only Russian 776N series interceptor suite can achieve HTK, and this is a recent accomplishment for Russia. Only S-500 will be equipped with this interceptor suite, and S-500 have the necessary sensor suite (radar and communications) to facilitate HTK intercepts.

Everything he says is wrong. He does not have actual information, just stuff the read in the media.

It could even be an attempt at disinformation.

People can be honest sometimes, and he is a military professional. I would give him the benefit of doubt.

Unless you have designed and tested S-400.

I know that you are a fan of S-400 and have a high opinion of it but you take its speculatory hype at face value and do not acknowledge limitations of the system.

I also have high opinion of S-400 and I consider Indian inductions as a destabilizing factor for South Asian security paradigm, but I believe in authenticity.

 

[Safriz]

No, it's 5 regiments. China's ordered 6 battalions in 2 regiments for $3B. India's ordered 5 regiments with unknown number of battalions for $5.4B. So we have ordered 10 battalions at the minimum. And we will be producing 6000 missiles with license.

The Russians have ordered 58 battalions in 28 regiments. Moscow alone has 5 regiments.

Ok, so 10 battalions is 80 Launchers? Each S-400 Battalion has 8 launchers.
The listed price is 400 Million USD per 8 launcher Battalion.
Thats 9 Battalions in 5.4 Billion USD

 

[randomradio]

Oh please! You think S-400 is a magic system which can do anything? HTK intercepts do not occur out of thin air - entire system is designed and optimized for this end, from scratch.

Only Russian 776N series interceptor suite can achieve HTK, and this is a recent accomplishment for Russia. Only S-500 will be equipped with this interceptor suite, and S-500 have the necessary sensor suite (radar and communications) to facilitate HTK intercepts.

9M96E and 9M96E2 are HTK. 48N6E and 40N6 use explosives.
77N6-N series are HTK in the same category as 48N6E and 40N6.

Also, HTK is entirely dependent on the capability of the missiles themselves, and not the radars. The S-400 will also be equipped with 77N6-N series.

People can be honest sometimes, and he is a military professional. I would give him the benefit of doubt.

Unless you have designed and tested S-400.

I know that you are a fan of S-400 and have a high opinion of it but you take its speculatory hype at face value and do not acknowledge limitations of the system.

I also have high opinion of S-400 and I consider Indian inductions as a destabilizing factor for South Asian security paradigm, but I believe in authenticity.

Nothing he said is correct.

For example, he says we are not getting the 40N6, but we are. This is confirmed information.

He is telling a different story with the mobile mast. There are plenty of vantage points for the S-400's radars along the border, without having to use the mast.

Then he goes on to talk about hypersonic warheads, Pakistan has none in its inventory. And, to date, nobody has hypersonic warheads operational or hypersonic manoeuvrable missile defence. So he is just bringing up non-issues with the mobile mast and the anti-hypersonic capability.

And finally, his information about the number of targets tracked and engaged is obsolete.

Ok, so 10 battalions is 80 Launchers? Each S-400 Battalion has 8 launchers.
The listed price is 400 Million USD per 8 launcher Battalion.
Thats 9 Battalions in 5.4 Billion USD

It's 8 to 12 launchers. So we don't actually know how many launchers have been ordered.

And your calculation is wrong there. If the listed price for each battalion is $400M, then for $5.4B we will get 13.5 battalions. You calculated for $600M per battalion.

The Chinese ordered 6 battalions for $3B. So for $5.4B, we may get 10.8 battalions, or 10 battalions, at $500M each.

But originally, the S-400 deal was supposed to cost us over $6B. So that puts us at 12 battalions, which we haggled down to $5.43B. Plus, the possibility of doubling the purchase in the future.

So anybody's best guess should be 10 battalions at the minimum, since that's what 5 regiments means. The Chinese ordered 2 regiments with 3 battalions each.

 

[LeGenD]

PAC-3 has a ton of shortcomings and it failed to intercept or launch missiles when needed. Even THAAD is in the same boat

PAC-3 Production to Continue Despite Program Shortcomings
https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2002_07-08/pacf3jul_aug02

Patriot Missiles Are Made in America and Fail Everywhere
https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/28/patriot-missiles-are-made-in-america-and-fail-everywhere/

PAC-3 scores one hit, but another missile fails to launch
http://aviationweek.com/awin/pac-3-scores-one-hit-another-missile-fails-launch

American Missile Defense Fail in Saudi Arabia
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/04/world/middleeast/saudi-missile-defense.html

PAC-3 in doubt after tests end with semi-successes
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...t-after-tests-end-with-semi-successes-149357/

Japan could soon withdraw PAC-3 missile interceptors
https://www.upi.com/Japan-could-soon-withdraw-PAC-3-missile-interceptors/8531532955371/

US Ballistic Missile Intercept Test Fails for 2nd Time
https://thediplomat.com/2018/02/us-ballistic-missile-intercept-test-fails-for-2nd-time/

US, Japan missile interception test fails
https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/22/politics/us-missile-intercept-test-fails/index.html

THAAD Can't Destroy North Korea's ICBMs
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/t...stroy-north-koreas-icbms-the-navy-might-23588

U.S. missile defense test fails to intercept target over Pacific
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/u-s-missile-defense-test-fails-to-intercept-target/

Friend,

This is not a sound argument from you. And some of those articles are spewing nonsense, which is typical of modern-era journalism. Some of those systems are in development phase by the way. THAAD in particular is above S-500 in BMDS capacity.

Every system is designed to engage certain type of targets, and have respective limitations. No system is the end-game in itself.

KSA operate PAC-2 variants and PAC-3 Base - these have defeated scores of threats over Saudi airspace since 2015: https://missilethreat.csis.org/missile-war-yemen/

However, there are misses as well which could be due to a ballistic missile veering off-course or an interceptor veering off course - technical faults. Nevertheless, Patriot defenses have significantly reduced the kinetic impact of Houthi ballistic missile strikes across KSA, and Saudi citizens feel safe.

Evolution of Patriot:-

PAC-2 Base (IOC in 1995)
PAC-3 Base (IOC in 2003)
PAC-2 GEM-T (IOC in 2005)
PAC-3 MSE (IOC in 2016)

S-400 is the Russian answer to PAC-3 Base (IOC in 2007). These have roughly similar BMDS capability. A comparison between these two is fair.

PAC-3 MSE is a state-of-the-art system and a major leap from earlier variants in all fronts but its technicalities are classified in large part. PAC-3 MSE is rebranded MEADS actually.

South Korea would be the first country receive PAC-3 MSE. KSA might receive it at a later stage.

My point-of-contention was in regards to comparison between S-400 and PAC-3 MSE only. If I misunderstood a post or an argument, then I accept my mistake.

 

[randomradio]

THAAD in particular is above S-500 in BMDS capacity.

No chance. THAAD will be nowhere near the S-500.

S-400 is the Russian answer to PAC-3 Base (IOC in 2007). These have roughly similar BMDS capability. A comparison between these two is fair.

There is no comparison between the PAC-3 and S-400.

In fact, the PAC-3 lost to the S-300PMU2 in India in 2005.

Jun 15, 2005
https://www.nti.org/gsn/article/us-to-sell-india-pac-3-missile-defense-system/

June 17, 2005
http://aviationweek.com/awin/us-approves-sale-pac-3-india
With the U.S. visit of India Defense Minister Pranab Mukherjee just days away, the United States has approved the sale of the Lockheed Martin-built Patriot Advanced Capability-3 (PAC-3) anti-missile defense system to India.

 

[maximuswarrior]

LOL..backstabbing? 70% of our equipment is of Russian origin...wtf you taking about...as for backstabbing come on guy ....you and your type know all about that....Osama Bin Laden in your backyard...and don't forget when the Huey crashed you sent the parts to China to get analyzed....fukboy

LOL STFU rapist. Got banned like a little bitch.

Your American daddy told you not to buy Russian yet you wanna have it your way. The question is for how long.

The Yanks have a reputation of twisting the neck of their own "allies" LOL Your turn will come. Only a matter of time. Don't think that Trump isn't noting down names.