Afghanistan Bans Full Face Veils

[regular]

Aprils fool eh?

Well how much area does really fall under Afghan control?

I guess not even 1%...
so this means Mr. Karzai is under US control literally...I dont think he gonna survive anymore, maybe he won't even get his grave there....

 

[Black Widow]

obviously the areas which is in india's (read as US) influeance

BTW i would be happoy if they do it 100% areas there is no concept of shutter burka in islam....

if am not wrong covering full face is hindus tradition

You are wrong. Veil/Ghoonghat is neither Hindu tradition nor our Culture. Its ill-practice. There is no evidence that Hindu used to wear these kind of cloth.

It was Middle age when attackers from west (pre-islamic and post-islamic period Invaders) viewed women as war booty, Hindu women start covering there face.

Ghoonghat is in practice in western India,(Rajsthan, UP etc). South and east India is still away from this ill practice.

 

[Isaths]

You are wrong. Veil/Ghoonghat is neither Hindu tradition nor our Culture. Its ill-practice. There is no evidence that Hindu used to wear these kind of cloth.

It was Middle age when attackers from west (pre-islamic and post-islamic period Invaders) viewed women as war booty, Hindu women start covering there face.

Ghoonghat is in practice in western India,(Rajsthan, UP etc). South and east India is still away from this ill practice.

Ill practice?

so u are trying to say that a women who is covering her face instead of exposing it practicing ill.

 

[SherAli]

Ill practice?

so u are trying to say that a women who is covering her face instead of exposing it practicing ill.

don't be offended ... its one of the many anomalies and idiocies I've heard from these indians ... depicting zoophilia in religious temples and drinking cow urine is fine but covering your face is an "ill practice"

 

[Awesome]

The face veil isn't even Islamic, it's more cultural than anything

One thing is being ignored - what if the woman simply wants to wear the face veil?

 

[Ignited Mind]

One thing is being ignored - what if the woman simply wants to wear the face veil?

What if the man also 'simply' wants to wear the face veil...and then the man only 'simply' wants to venture into the women's toilet? or 'simply' blow up a market?

 

[vsdoc]

I don't think this has anything with religion or culture at all. Its simply a long delayed common sense security need to protect the population of that part of Afghanistan which is in the cross-hairs and where such a ban has a reasonable chance of being enforced.

P.S. And Asim we have been over this in the past on a pretty detailed thread on the same. I recall Jana very active there at the time as well.

There is a very thin line between wanting to wear a veil and being pressured (overtly or more subtlely) into wearing one.

When you see a woman walking down the street in a veil, can you look at her and tell the difference?

What Sarkozy has done, is protect his country's women from that pressure. Now they can in all honesty tell their people at home - look we want to be good Muslims and wear the veil, but doing so is going to get me (and probably you) arrested. So ....

 

[Awesome]

What if the man also 'simply' wants to wear the face veil...and then the man only 'simply' wants to venture into the women's toilet? or 'simply' blow up a market?

Checkpoints with female security staff should resolve this problem.

I don't think this has anything with religion or culture at all. Its simply a long delayed common sense security need to protect the population of that part of Afghanistan which is in the cross-hairs and where such a ban has a reasonable chance of being enforced.

P.S. And Asim we have been over this in the past on a pretty detailed thread on the same. I recall Jana very active there at the time as well.

There is a very thin line between wanting to wear a veil and being pressured (overtly or more subtlely) into wearing one.

When you see a woman walking down the street in a veil, can you look at her and tell the difference?

What Sarkozy has done, is protect his country's women from that pressure. Now they can in all honesty tell their people at home - look we want to be good Muslims and wear the veil, but doing so is going to get me (and probably you) arrested. So ....

For security we have checkpoints, for subtle pressures if you can prove it fine, catch the person on a case by case basis, if you can't prove it then what? You are just another man, telling a woman what to wear.

 

[Ignited Mind]

Checkpoints with female security staff should resolve this problem.

So, you fall back to the recourse of 'security staff'.

But you do know that you can never have too much of security, right?

Besides, what if the man is carrying a face veil in his bag and decides to put it on once he enters the mall in a secluded corner?

You know, we can do this all day.

I can provide you with n number of 'what if...' situations if you want.

 

[vsdoc]

Checkpoints with female security staff should resolve this problem.

How many checkpoints are you going to have? Where all? Alert citizenry is always your best first line of defence.

For security we have checkpoints, for subtle pressures if you can prove it fine, catch the person on a case by case basis, if you can't prove it then what? You are just another man, telling a woman what to wear.

I asked you a question which I see you evade.

You see a woman with a veil. Can you make out whether she is wearing it by choice or not?

What would you have authorities do? Round up all veiled women and put them on Polygraph's?

And you know the funny part of the issue is that more often than not the pressure comes from the elder women and not the man.

 

[Ignited Mind]

For security we have checkpoints, for subtle pressures if you can prove it fine, catch the person on a case by case basis, if you can't prove it then what? You are just another man, telling a woman what to wear.

No he is not.

He is only a man who wants a woman to not wear something which could easily double up as an accessory to crime and which would further add to the woes of the world's security agencies toiling day and night to ward off an attack on your and my lives.

 

[AbhimanyuShrivastav]

You are just another man, telling a woman what to wear.

How about flipping it on its head.. Instead of talking of woman deciding what to wear, lets talk of them deciding how little to wear..When you dont mind dictating a dress code which is socially acceptable, what's wrong with dictating a dress code that is acceptable security wise ?

 

[Awesome]

So, you fall back to the recourse of 'security staff'.

But you do know that you can never have too much of security, right?

Besides, what if the man is carrying a face veil in his bag and decides to put it on once he enters the mall in a secluded corner?

You know, we can do this all day.

I can provide you with n number of 'what if...' situations if you want.

Fundamentally we have to always fall back upon that freedom is more important than security.

Famous American founding father Ben Franklin said:

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

Security is a problem or failing of the government it has to resolve it by its own resources, without asking me to give up my freedom to wear a piece of clothing.

 

[Awesome]

Let's first be honest, suicide bombings by burkha bombers started like 5 years ago. This debate against the right of women to wear the burkha has been there for decades.

So lets first be honest about your intentions, then we can debate on this.

 

[Ignited Mind]

Fundamentally we have to always fall back upon that freedom is more important than security.

Someone would say otherwise, who decides?

I say Jaan Hai toh jahaan hai.

I would rather see my parents' freedom curtailed than never see them at all.

It depends what is at state.

Let me raise the stake bit by bit.

So you're ok compromising on your security in order to have that extra bit of freedom.

How about your wife's security?

...or your Mom's security?

...or your son's and daughter's security?

...or the security of all of them combined going to a mall to enjoy a movie?

Point is, you, being a human and bound by the fallacies of love for the near and dear ones, will untilmately give up and say, "OK! I will risk my life but I will not risk the lives of those whom I love more than my life itself.".

...and then, my friend, you'll be just another human, fallible and immortal.

Famous American founding father Ben Franklin said:

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

Security is a problem or failing of the government it has to resolve it by its own resources, without asking me to give up my freedom to wear a piece of clothing.

Benjamin Franklin was a luminary but he was no God.

God is the only one who knows all and sees all.

There's no telling that Ben wouldn't have changed his mind in keeping in view the times we live in.

Like I said, it's all a matter of where your point of submission lies, I will keep raising the stakes and soon there will be a point where you WILL yield.