A not so silent war (Babur-3, SSK interception)

[CriticalThought]

Now, regarding bypassing the SUBTICS CMS, well, that's impossible because GPS gives only locational coordinates. For any weapons launch, one requires a direct connection to the inertial navigation system using ring laser gyros. And this RLG-INS is integrated with the SUBTICS & cannot be bypassed. Even if a standalone RLG-INS is used only for weapons release, how will this RLG-INS interface & synchronise with the RLG-INS of SUBTICS? So, without such data on the stabilisation of the platform (submarine), it is impossible to adjust the horizontal/vertical attitude of the missile-launch fire-control system & without this any data pertaining to the horizontal/vertical attitude of the SLCM cannot be uploaded on to the SLCM's on-board RLG-INS & mission computer. Therefore, it is physically impossible to bypass the closed-loop fire-control sequence that always begins at the CMS (SUBTICS in this case) & no miracles happen in this domain.

Why is the standalone system required to interface with SUBTICS? You can carry any INS on a submarine and interface it with the missile.

I'd judge based on the content, not the title.

The key question in the article is:

Bypassing SUBTICS Combat-Management System on Agosta SSKs. Even India ran into problems wrt torpedo choice for IN Scorpenes because we had to choose from only those HWTs that were already integrated with SUBTICS (like BlackShark or F21), a new torpedo would require extensive re-writing of the CMS which would take too long & cost too much...and certainly cannot be done by anyone not certified by the OEM. At least not if you want to retain an ounce of credibility after that. There is no way a nuclear-capable guided cruise missile can be integrated with SUBTICS without probably violating a whole lot of End-User agreements.

As explained by other posters, ejecting any object from the submarine has already been achieved. Said object doesn't have to interface with the CMS. The target can be hardcoded into the missile for test purposes.

 

[Director General]

Why is the standalone system required to interface with SUBTICS? You can carry any INS on a submarine and interface it with the missile.

Without the use of integration into CMS you won't be able to stabilise the sub or control the attitudes, which is why forget cruise missiles even torpedoes cannot be integrated without CMS.

 

[The Eagle]

Thread got transferred!!

For an obvious reason that the member shouldn't feel that way.....

Now on the topic: 90000 NM, I mean someone forgot to add few zeros or to count how much added. The blog was necessary after the test indeed for moral boosting etc however, Indian Analysts already proven the test faked by calling it graphical footage and etc images even said that it is impossible to film in-flight missile and none did it even India never did it so one has to think that India is not a caparison bar that everything has to be measured with it.

The Babur-3 SLCM Bakwaas Exposed
On January 9, 2017 the following press-release was released by Pakistan’s ISPR (and curiously not from the PN):

This is the level of discussion, analyzing and expertise that people stoop to such level only to unload the burden of chest and due to anxiety, grudge in heart that can't even remain civil and then expect ethical discussion. By reading these words, actually it says, a long rant only to satisfy oneself by posting offensive, insulting and provoking remarks only. Babur, a real hurt indeed.

 

[Valar Dohaeris]

For an obvious reason that the member shouldn't feel that way.....

Now on the topic: 90000 NM, I mean someone forgot to add few zeros or to count how much added. The blog was necessary after the test indeed for moral boosting etc however, Indian Analysts already proven the test faked by calling it graphical footage and etc images even said that it is impossible to film in-flight missile and none did it even India never did it so one has to think that India is not a caparison bar that everything has to be measured with it.




This is the level of discussion, analyzing and expertise that people stoop to such level only to unload the burden of chest and due to anxiety, grudge in heart that can't even remain civil and then expect ethical discussion. By reading these words, actually it says, a long rant only to satisfy oneself by posting offensive, insulting and provoking remarks only. Babur, a real hurt indeed.

Can you imagine the level of common bhakts when the national level video expert are measuring the speed of our missile from a video which shows the clips of missile traveling at two different instances. I mean seriously, if India did not have such a large population and consequently a large economy, that would have been doomed long ago. It makes sense that why they are only one on the planet who have never invaded any foreign territory in more than 1000 years.

 

[The Eagle]

Can you imagine the level of common bhakts when the national level video expert are measuring the speed of our missile from a video which shows the clips of missile traveling at two different instances. I mean seriously, if India did not have such a large population and consequently a large economy, that would have been doomed long ago. It makes sense that why they are only one on the planet who have never invaded any foreign territory in more than 1000 years.

The issue is, if one has to refute something or want to give a reply, it has to be realistic and advanced than the version of adversary. India can give a reply either by proving the Missile as non-lethal, irrelevant etc by going through the specs, tech details etc but the thing is, they actually couldn't do so but what, the analysis on video because of decades experience in Bollywood film makings where the set standard is always a video and a director/editor to examine. An immature desperate attempt to downgrade as per ability of one to play like this and boost the moral. Started to cook a story with everything like Chinese Sub, then Ships, then IN Sub detection and when placed almost a good base to establish forged story as valid, the real desperation shown by badmouthing the Pakistani Missile Test and started to use offensive language etc for self satisfaction. Just note the comparison and analytical videos from Indian side that many experts from world were still evaluating the details, right & wrong of Missile etc but our adversary jumped on gun so that a drama can be played accordingly for the public. What a lame thing to do by name calling.

 

[hussain0216]

As India's former NSA said that Pakistan has a habit of claiming capability long before they actually possess it.

Thread got transferred!!

On the contrary

Pakistan says very little and then we shock our enemies by inducting or announcing


India on the other hand can go through YEARS of bollywoodesq tamasha declaring weapons systems, how great they are, how indigenous they are, how many they will have
Then add the indian fan boy delusions snd masala and you have masterbation excercise that could drown india in jizz
More the comedy when the indian projects turn out to be lemons

If you follow the Pakistani path you will keep your mouth shut snd then announce snd send your enemy into a tail spin of crazy denial

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

For an obvious reason that the member shouldn't feel that way.....

Now on the topic: 90000 NM, I mean someone forgot to add few zeros or to count how much added. The blog was necessary after the test indeed for moral boosting etc however, Indian Analysts already proven the test faked by calling it graphical footage and etc images even said that it is impossible to film in-flight missile and none did it even India never did it so one has to think that India is not a caparison bar that everything has to be measured with it.




This is the level of discussion, analyzing and expertise that people stoop to such level only to unload the burden of chest and due to anxiety, grudge in heart that can't even remain civil and then expect ethical discussion. By reading these words, actually it says, a long rant only to satisfy oneself by posting offensive, insulting and provoking remarks only. Babur, a real hurt indeed.

For arguments' sake, say everything is "Made in China". Shouldn't it be even more scarier for the Indians? What does China want and what's her game plan? "A Known enemy is better than an unknown friend" - here it's an unknown enemy!!

The other day I was reading an article by an Indian general. He suspects that CPEC might bring the Chines armored forces into the plains of Punjab. As if it's another "Panipat" all over again. This time, however, it's "Made in China". And, you Pak folks call these damn things Babur, Ghori, Abdali etc.!!!?!!? Please go a little easy on the Indian mindsets!!! Iblis has his limitations to give solace to human beings!!!!!!

 

[xyxmt]

hye itna dard ho raha hay G main

 

[CriticalThought]

Without the use of integration into CMS you won't be able to stabilise the sub or control the attitudes, which is why forget cruise missiles even torpedoes cannot be integrated without CMS.

You mean stabilise and control the missile right? What you have written fails to make sense.

Now I am no expert at this but here is how it can be achieved. The sub goes down to 100m depth (hypothetical). The missile is pre-programmed for 100m depth. Any problems due to lack of integration can be solved through extra compensation. For example, for the test, the missile can be equipped with a depth sensor. Or it can use signals from a buoy to determine depth. For the attitude, if you read the news report, it already says the missile utilized advanced under water capabilities. Even I can think of very simple strategies for attitude correction in a test.

What people fail to remember is this is a test.

Can you imagine the level of common bhakts when the national level video expert are measuring the speed of our missile from a video which shows the clips of missile traveling at two different instances. I mean seriously, if India did not have such a large population and consequently a large economy, that would have been doomed long ago. It makes sense that why they are only one on the planet who have never invaded any foreign territory in more than 1000 years.

Sir, a lot can be deduced from a video. The analyst would have made assumptions about the frame rate. Then, assumptions about size of features in the background can be made and triangulation can be used to measure size. Finally, people who have in-depth knowledge of cruise missiles already have estimates of what is possible and what is not.

 

[war&peace]

I didn't know that Pakistan's test of 450 km SLCM will turn ******** defence experts and media into headless chickens and dogs with rabies ...What will they do when we will SLBM on our nuclear subs and MIRVs....anything less than hara kari on the left and right banks of the Ganges.

 

[I S I]

The Babur-3 SLCM Bakwaas Exposed

No need to waste your time reading this pile of crap.

 

[Director General]

You mean stabilise and control the missile right? What you have written fails to make sense.

Now I am no expert at this but here is how it can be achieved. The sub goes down to 100m depth (hypothetical). The missile is pre-programmed for 100m depth. Any problems due to lack of integration can be solved through extra compensation. For example, for the test, the missile can be equipped with a depth sensor. Or it can use signals from a buoy to determine depth. For the attitude, if you read the news report, it already says the missile utilized advanced under water capabilities. Even I can think of very simple strategies for attitude correction in a test.

What people fail to remember is this is a test.



Sir, a lot can be deduced from a video. The analyst would have made assumptions about the frame rate. Then, assumptions about size of features in the background can be made and triangulation can be used to measure size. Finally, people who have in-depth knowledge of cruise missiles already have estimates of what is possible and what is not.

No for stabilization of submarine and it's attitude without which missile integration is not possible.

 

[Valar Dohaeris]

Sir, a lot can be deduced from a video. The analyst would have made assumptions about the frame rate. Then, assumptions about size of features in the background can be made and triangulation can be used to measure size. Finally, people who have in-depth knowledge of cruise missiles already have estimates of what is possible and what is not.

Ofcourse, reasonable people can extract important credible information out of the video footage. Here, I was referring to an Indian video "expert" who have estimated the speed of Babur III using the video. And came up with an answer unrealistically high to prove that video is fake. What the expert miss or he was not able to grasp that he used portion of the video involving the missile journey at two different instances. Hence, a big part of the distance was not covered in the video and appeared to be missile traveled 15ks in less than 8 secs. What he missed there was that answer must be speed of light as many kilos were traveled without taking time.

 

[ghazi768]

Now, regarding bypassing the SUBTICS CMS, well, that's impossible because GPS gives only locational coordinates. For any weapons launch, one requires a direct connection to the inertial navigation system using ring laser gyros. And this RLG-INS is integrated with the SUBTICS & cannot be bypassed. Even if a standalone RLG-INS is used only for weapons release, how will this RLG-INS interface & synchronise with the RLG-INS of SUBTICS? So, without such data on the stabilisation of the platform (submarine), it is impossible to adjust the horizontal/vertical attitude of the missile-launch fire-control system & without this any data pertaining to the horizontal/vertical attitude of the SLCM cannot be uploaded on to the SLCM's on-board RLG-INS & mission computer. Therefore, it is physically impossible to bypass the closed-loop fire-control sequence that always begins at the CMS (SUBTICS in this case) & no miracles happen in this domain.

Sometimes I pity you indian trolls.. you always need to come up with any cacophony to remain in denial.

Flight path and other data already needs to be prepared and transferred to LACM, do not need SUBTICS for this. And why the hell will LACM's INS will need to synchronise with inertial systems of submarine?

But having LACM integrated into ship's mission control and planning systems will be better.. haven't you heard of an upgrade for PN Agostas..

 

[Director General]

Sometimes I pity you indian trolls.. you always need to come up with any cacophony to remain in denial.

Flight path and other data already needs to be prepared and transferred to LACM, do not need SUBTICS for this. And why the hell will LACM's INS will need to synchronise with inertial systems of submarine?

But having LACM integrated into ship's mission control and planning systems will be better.. haven't you heard of an upgrade for PN Agostas..

Read this:

Even if a standalone RLG-INS is used only for weapons release, how will this RLG-INS interface & synchronise with the RLG-INS of SUBTICS? So, without such data on the stabilisation of the platform (submarine), it is impossible to adjust the horizontal/vertical attitude of the missile-launch fire-control system & without this any data pertaining to the horizontal/vertical attitude of the SLCM cannot be uploaded on to the SLCM's on-board RLG-INS & mission computer.