A few Siachen facts and bluffs!

[toxic_pus]

Had the story been as the Indians like to claim, they would have very well drawn the CFL (atleast on the map) till the Chinese border, instead of terminating it at NJ9842. Because if they had the cheeks to had over a 70 km long glacier to India just by the stroke of a pen, they very well could also have chosen a (suitable) point on the Chinese border to denote the termination of CFL there, and thereby puting Siachen Glacier towards the Indian side of the CFL. Sorry guys, that just did not happen.

You do realise that the map par Karachi Agreement doesn't have any currency anymore. Shimla Agreement supersedes Karachi and Google draws boundary on the basis of Shimla Agreement.

Please tell me you knew that all along but still engaged in this spirited, but futile exercise just because you have plenty of time on hand.

 

[Hindustani78]

 

[Xeric]

Actually this where you don’t have to apply common sense. It is in black and white.

Khor, thence north to the glaciers. This portion of the cease- fire line shall be demarcated in detail on the basis of the factual position as of 27 July 1949, by the local commanders assisted by United Nations military observers.​

Since ‘thence north to the glaciers’ from Khor upto the nearest recognized international boarder was only partially demarcated, only upto NJ-9842, the rest of it was supposed to be done so, after the agreement. It is another matter that it didn’t happen. The intention, was made clear in the text.

Wait, you want to say that as per Karachi Agreement the so called CFL which, as assumed by Indians extended beyond NJ 9842, was to be demarcated on ground, after the agreement?

You do realise that the map par Karachi Agreement doesn't have any currency anymore. Shimla Agreement supersedes Karachi and Google draws boundary on the basis of Shimla Agreement.

Please tell me you knew that all along but still engaged in this spirited, but futile exercise just because you have plenty of time on hand.

My entire focus (for now -including the other thread i opened) is to educated you and your fellow Indians that as per Karachi and Simla Agreement, Siachen did not belong to India as you people have been trying to prove since you gain puberty. Which in fact i did. Simple.

You want to discuss the ground positions as of today, how the CFL alignment changed when you (illegally) occupied Siachen and during subsequent wars, be my guest and open a new thread. This thread's topic says: A few Siachen facts and bluffs! whereby the OP (unsuccessfully) tried to prove that somehow Siachen was part of India since the dawn of days. Sorry, sir it was not. And that's what i am replying to (and proved) ever since i entered this thread.

So, keeping in view your desire of discussing the ground position as of today, if you have agreed that Siachen was not your part, we can always move ahead.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@Xeric

We are ready to withdraw from Siachen PROVIDED Pakistan
is ready to Authenticate ; delineate and demarcate the AGPL

Why is Pakistan unwilling to do so

Whether the LOC should go north or East does not matter is a matter of arguement

Sir you are right that Siachen belonged to nobody after the Shimla agreement

It was a case of who gets there first

SO what started the problem ?

It was when Pakistan used the US Defence Agency maps started extending the LOC Eastwards
like you claim now

If we had not occupied it ; you would have occupied it

And with the Chinese angle involved the Situation has become messier

 

[OrionHunter]

@Xeric

SIr how and why does NORTH becomes EAST in Pakistani dictionary

No big deal. They can even prove a circle is actually a square!

No point arguing. Logic is alien to them. Just move on.......

 

[Sneaker]

Just because the guys working on Karachi Agreement knew that one day, 'geniuses' like you, the hunter guy and the the one who still idolizes spinach would overload their commonsense and fail to understand simple English. So, they also prepared a map for their easy comprehension, but they also failed to understand that. But then, i was here too, and it is indeed my profound privilege to help them out:

The said map (UN doc no S/1430/Add.2) showing the Cease-Fire Line can be accessed here: http://repository.un.org/bitstream/handle/11176/87063/S_1430_Add.2-EN.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y

However, posting the snapshots:

View attachment 225113

View attachment 225114

View attachment 225115

But the again, as i also know that having failed to read and comprehend simple English, these guys would also be unable to read and understand the map itself, i will help them out again by superimposing the the above maps as overlays on to Google Earth (images). The overlay is placed with fair accuracy as can be seen from the synchronized alignment of the borders of Pakistan and AJK and matching grid lines:

1. The over view of the overlays onto Google Earth:

View attachment 225119

2. Zoomed in to show the matching alignment of borders both as shown on the map ex UU doc and Google Earth. It can also be seen that the map makers at UN did not extend the CFL 'thence north to the glaciers' as Indians like to claim:

View attachment 225123

3. The same image with 50% transparency of opverlays, for those who have weak eyesight, weak hearts and tiny brains:

View attachment 225125

4. Final, the area which actually matters have been zoomed in. Landmarks as mentioned in Karachi Agreement (Chulanka, Turtuk etc) have been marked. The UN Map ex Karachi Agreement clearly shows that the CFL ended at NJ9842 and when they wrote "..Khor, thence north to the glaciers", it meant that thence north to the glaciers (upto the last point known i.e. NJ9842):

View attachment 225130

Had the story been as the Indians like to claim, they would have very well drawn the CFL (atleast on the map) till the Chinese border, instead of terminating it at NJ9842. Because if they had the cheeks to had over a 70 km long glacier to India just by the stroke of a pen, they very well could also have chosen a (suitable) point on the Chinese border to denote the termination of CFL there, and thereby puting Siachen Glacier towards the Indian side of the CFL. Sorry guys, that just did not happen.

With all this effort, you never answered why it should end at nj and not at china border. Karachi agreement was to demarcate the boundary and not to let any undefined area. Aso it is clear that since the area was not accessible at that time, they defined a straight line to north till china and detail demarcation was carried out till nj (which was accessible) rest left to future, to be carried out based on actual terrain. This is pretty basic inference you can get from the agreement. In any case, how pak can claim from nj to karacoram is beyond me.

 

[Psychic]

With all this effort, you never answered why it should end at nj and not at china border. Karachi agreement was to demarcate the boundary and not to let any undefined area. Aso it is clear that since the area was not accessible at that time, they defined a straight line to north till china and detail demarcation was carried out till nj (which was accessible) rest left to future, to be carried out based on actual terrain. This is pretty basic inference you can get from the agreement. In any case, how pak can claim from nj to karacoram is beyond me.

And you guys were hibernating till 1984

All these excuses came in your minds after 1984.

 

[Sneaker]

And you guys were hibernating till 1984

All these excuses came in your minds after 1984.

Our territory, we can hybernate or sleep forever, not your business. You weren't active either, just saying.

 

[Psychic]

You weren't active either, just saying.

It is your ignorance.

Our territory, we can hybernate or sleep forever, not your business. You weren't active either, just saying.

Check the last part of post#264 to see how much active we were and no one protested. The whole world knew that it was our's.

 

[Sneaker]

It is your ignorance.


Check the last part of post#264 to see how much active we were and no one protested. The whole world knew that it was our's.

Lol.... we were exploring the area since 1956. Excuse us for doing some good things in rest of the nation and not observing you sneaking in earlier. Whe we became aware of your nefarious intentions, the protest we did still haunts you..

 

[Psychic]

Lol.... we were exploring the area since 1956

Just one small team to measure length of glacier, that's all what you did, on the other hand we were giving visas to tourists and mountaineers, the world maps and atlases showed it as Pakistani territory and that is why any foreigner who wanted to visit that area asked for Pakistani permission. No one bothered Indians.

and not observing you sneaking in earlier

No one sneaked in, foreigners were given visas and we openly behaved like owners of that territory.

Whe we became aware of your nefarious intentions, the protest we did still haunts you..

Protest or sneaking in?

 

[GURU DUTT]

Just one small team to measure length of glacier, that's all what you did, on the other hand we were giving visas to tourists and mountaineers, the world maps and atlases showed it as Pakistani territory and that is why any foreigner who wanted to visit that area asked for Pakistani permission. No one bothered Indians.

No one sneaked in, foreigners were given visas and we openly behaved like owners of that territory.

Protest or sneaking in?

in short kabza sachha jhagraa jhoota

 

[Sneaker]

Just one small team to measure length of glacier, that's all what you did, on the other hand we were giving visas to tourists and mountaineers, the world maps and atlases showed it as Pakistani territory and that is why any foreigner who wanted to visit that area asked for Pakistani permission. No one bothered Indians.

No one sneaked in, foreigners were given visas and we openly behaved like owners of that territory.

Protest or sneaking in?

Protest at you sneaking in...

 

[Psychic]

Protest at you sneaking in...

When?

 

[Sneaker]

op meghadoot...