Pakistani Engineers overhauled Cobra Gunship Engine - US objection

GURU DUTT said:

now sir you know why even after so many hardships and sacrifices done by pakistan for USA ... yamrica bahadur still dosent shares all its techs like in past with pakistan and guess what the so called latest tech what PAF has with its latest model Blk52s are at least a decade if not more old and China already have them they even have managed to get techs on latest f35 hope you get my point sir

as for this article if you read between the lines it suggest coming sanctions of spare parts and weapons for cobras in PA & PAF

no offence no trolling only logical debate thanks in advance

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There are techs on this aircraft which still need looking at by the Chinese. I am not undermining them but it's good to have comparisons. Also we have the capability like Iran to overhaul any US made equipment and china to reengineer it.

GURU DUTT said:

now sir you know why even after so many hardships and sacrifices done by pakistan for USA ... yamrica bahadur still dosent shares all its techs like in past with pakistan and guess what the so called latest tech what PAF has with its latest model Blk52s are at least a decade if not more old and China already have them they even have managed to get techs on latest f35 hope you get my point sir

as for this article if you read between the lines it suggest coming sanctions of spare parts and weapons for cobras in PA & PAF

no offence no trolling only logical debate thanks in advance

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What about the electronic warfare component of the Block 52? It must be invaluable for' third parties'.
The US also produces some of the world's most reliable engines which are also used in the
F16.
Surely there must be interested parties, no?

Blue Marlin said:

all in..... no not really. and the US is not stupid enough to let go of pakistan so that russia and chian can fill the gap.

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and we are not wise enough to do the same.
So the story continues....

Arsalan said:

and we are not wise enough to do the same.
So the story continues....

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indeed sad isn't it

Blue Marlin said:

indeed sad isn't it

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hmmm
i just hope we move on at least on some of the issues here. It is not like we will do great without US, in fact, in today's interconnected world, i am not sure if anyone will do great without everyone else. All of us are interconnected, there are mutual interests with everyone, some directly and some through other parties/states. So we should work on our foreign policy and step up our diplomatic efforts. Do all this while understanding that eventually, we will need to build a stronger indigenous base to survive. Work on other alternate projects must be considered and proceeded with. Not with a view to prepare life in isolation but with a view to give rather then take. This is how we can progress. Also while there are SO many things that make all this sound difficult, it is not something entirely impossible. If worked on with honesty and devotions, such tasks can be accomplished and we can develop alternates to such systems/alliances that will do us good in future.

Tripoli said:

What about the electronic warfare component of the Block 52? It must be invaluable for' third parties'.
The US also produces some of the world's most reliable engines which are also used in the
F16.
Surely there must be interested parties, no?

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guess what china already makes all the electronics used in the USA accept some processors/chips point is USA never gives any cutting edge tech to its allies not even israel , UK or australia for that matter

and ever since a fallen tomohawk landed in chinese labs USA already is holding back

and thats where those reports that US technicians themselfs were uploading source codes to each Blk52 themselfs after set number of sorties came

USA knows more about the coopration between pakistan and china in this field than even most pakistanies

now coming back to the topic i guess "MAYBE" its the first step of US towards relooking its latest cobra gunships deal with Pakistan and im sure it has something to do with recent amendment by there congress against F16 deal

again no offence no trolling only logical debate thank you all

Dr Shaheryar said:

There are techs on this aircraft which still need looking at by the Chinese. I am not undermining them but it's good to have comparisons. Also we have the capability like Iran to overhaul any US made equipment and china to reengineer it.

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then good luck to you and god bless China .... cheers doctor saheb

BRAVO_ said:

asar nahi par raha

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Yes,but if received would increse strength

Arsalan said:

hmmm
i just hope we move on at least on some of the issues here. It is not like we will do great without US, in fact, in today's interconnected world, i am not sure if anyone will do great without everyone else. All of us are interconnected, there are mutual interests with everyone, some directly and some through other parties/states. So we should work on our foreign policy and step up our diplomatic efforts. Do all this while understanding that eventually, we will need to build a stronger indigenous base to survive. Work on other alternate projects must be considered and proceeded with. Not with a view to prepare life in isolation but with a view to give rather then take. This is how we can progress. Also while there are SO many things that make all this sound difficult, it is not something entirely impossible. If worked on with honesty and devotions, such tasks can be accomplished and we can develop alternates to such systems/alliances that will do us good in future.

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The first step would be propping up the economy. What do we export? Textile, fruits etc. There is no industry in Pakistan
apart from textile. Many Pakistanis say that CPEC is the way forward and it will solve most of our economic problems.
It won't. It might give some transit revenue and provide some low-skilled jobs but nothing more. You need an industry to prop up your economy. A country like Vietnam has a much healthier and larger gdp (per capitia).

vietnam gdp:171.4 billion USD population:80 million
pakistan gdp: 232.3 billion USD population:200 million

Arsalan said:

hmmm
i just hope we move on at least on some of the issues here. It is not like we will do great without US, in fact, in today's interconnected world, i am not sure if anyone will do great without everyone else. All of us are interconnected, there are mutual interests with everyone, some directly and some through other parties/states. So we should work on our foreign policy and step up our diplomatic efforts. Do all this while understanding that eventually, we will need to build a stronger indigenous base to survive. Work on other alternate projects must be considered and proceeded with. Not with a view to prepare life in isolation but with a view to give rather then take. This is how we can progress. Also while there are SO many things that make all this sound difficult, it is not something entirely impossible. If worked on with honesty and devotions, such tasks can be accomplished and we can develop alternates to such systems/alliances that will do us good in future.

Click to expand...

whilst you write this your retired generals live in the US and the current generals of Pakistan have their children being educated in the US or the "west" Pakistan need s balanced approach one country I’m particularly fond of is Indonesia which is something Pakistan can learn from their diplomatic approach, they have good relations with the "west" Russia, china and most Asian countries. Pakistan needs to decide where it want to be in the future. Either a successful developing country or remain where it is. Now the people who run your country live the good life. Why should they care for ordinary people such as yourself which is where the problem comes from? Yes I know this thread was about overhauling the gunships but it uncovers the chapter of dependency. Pakistan is a country that very strange which is why in kind of here. You have every opportunity and yet you turn it away. What opportunities??? Economy, back during the mushy era he said in a scow summit that Pakistan is the gateway to central Asia. Why have they not got a route to central Asia? Most will jump to the fact that the WOT as a good excuse, yes excuse not all of Pakistan is facing the threat, northern Punjab and eastern Sindh and as ad Kashmir is doing quite well. The wakahan corridor in Afghanistan is perfect it’s away from the riff raff and is only several kilometres wide. So some may say we can go to central Asia via china but it’s too long. Then you have lack of sustainable electricity which results in a 1% loss in gdp annually, that’s what first need to be solved yes there’s improvements granted. What would I propose simple which leader brought the best results to Pakistan? Mushy. An interview with an isi chief with Hasan mehndi said the military brought more than democratic governments. Heck look at Zadar. the current growth rate is 4.7 % during the mush era it was 7.7% now I prefer mushy to the rest but in saying Pakistan needs an authoritarian government like Russia and kind of like turkey get rid of these stupid protest which purposely disrupt the country and yet politicians do them just for the sake of it and merge tribal elders with the authorities so the current system is controlled by the government.


sorry about the rant but it has to been done

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=pakistan+gdp+growth+2005

Blue Marlin said:

whilst you write this your retired generals live in the US and the current generals of pakistan have their children being educated in the US or the "west" pakistan need s balanced approach one country im particulary fond of is indoneasia which is someing pakistan can learn from their diplomatic approach, they have good relations with the "west" russia, china and most asain countries. pakistan needs to decide where it want to be in the future. either a succesfull developing country or remain where it is. now the people who run your country live the good life. why should they care for ordinary people such as yourself which is where the problem comes from. yes i know this thread was about overhauling the gunships but it uncovers the chapter of dependancy. pakistan is a country that very strange which is why im kinda here. you have every oppertunity and yet you turn it away. what oppertunities??? economy, back during the mushy era he said in a sco summit that pakistan is the gateway to cental asia. why have they not got a route to cental asia? most will jump to the fact that the WOT as a good excuse, yes excuse not all of pakistan is facing the threat, northern punjab and eastern sindh and azad kashmir is doing quiet well. the wakahan corridor in afganistan is perfect its away from the riff raff and is only several kilomemeters wide. so some may say we can go to central asia via china but its too long. then you have lack of sustainable electricity which results in a !% loss in gdp thats what first need to be solved yes theres improvements granted. what would i propose simple which leader brought the best results to pakistan? mushy. an interview with an isi cheif with hasan mendhi said the millitary brought more than democratic governments. heck look at zadari. the current growth rate is 4.7 % during the mush era it was 7.7% now i prefer mushy to the rest but im sayingpakistan needs an authoritairan government like russia and kinda like turkey get rid of these stupid protest which pruposly disrupt the country and yet politcain do them just for the sake of it and merge tribal elders withthe authorities so the current system is controlled by the government.

sorry about the rant but it has to been done

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=pakistan+gdp+growth+2005

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Great post. I like the Vietnamese model of government. Despite everything Vietnam went through(american invasion) its gdp is much, much better than Pakistan's. If they could do it, why can't we Pakistanis.

GURU DUTT said:

now sir you know why even after so many hardships and sacrifices done by pakistan for USA ... yamrica bahadur still dosent shares all its techs like in past with pakistan and guess what the so called latest tech what PAF has with its latest model Blk52s are at least a decade if not more old and China already have them they even have managed to get techs on latest f35 hope you get my point sir

as for this article if you read between the lines it suggest coming sanctions of spare parts and weapons for cobras in PA & PAF

no offence no trolling only logical debate thanks in advance

Click to expand...

That's true ...Chinese hackers have done considerable industrial and military espionage ...they're way ahead and may not need what we have ...except on system !

Blue Marlin said:

whilst you write this your retired generals live in the US and the current generals of pakistan have their children being educated in the US or the "west" pakistan need s balanced approach one country im particulary fond of is indoneasia which is someing pakistan can learn from their diplomatic approach, they have good relations with the "west" russia, china and most asain countries. pakistan needs to decide where it want to be in the future. either a succesfull developing country or remain where it is. now the people who run your country live the good life. why should they care for ordinary people such as yourself which is where the problem comes from. yes i know this thread was about overhauling the gunships but it uncovers the chapter of dependancy. pakistan is a country that very strange which is why im kinda here. you have every oppertunity and yet you turn it away. what oppertunities??? economy, back during the mushy era he said in a sco summit that pakistan is the gateway to cental asia. why have they not got a route to cental asia? most will jump to the fact that the WOT as a good excuse, yes excuse not all of pakistan is facing the threat, northern punjab and eastern sindh and azad kashmir is doing quiet well. the wakahan corridor in afganistan is perfect its away from the riff raff and is only several kilomemeters wide. so some may say we can go to central asia via china but its too long. then you have lack of sustainable electricity which results in a !% loss in gdp thats what first need to be solved yes theres improvements granted. what would i propose simple which leader brought the best results to pakistan? mushy. an interview with an isi cheif with hasan mendhi said the millitary brought more than democratic governments. heck look at zadari. the current growth rate is 4.7 % during the mush era it was 7.7% now i prefer mushy to the rest but im saying pakistan needs an authoritairan government like russia and kinda like turkey get rid of these stupid protest which pruposly disrupt the country and yet politcain do them just for the sake of it and merge tribal elders withthe authorities so the current system is controlled by the government.

sorry about the rant but it has to been done

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=pakistan+gdp+growth+2005

Click to expand...

I wont say its a rant. You do tend to get aggressive and if you tone down the argument, it would be much more effective but what you said here is true and not a rant. Specially what you mentioned about Indonesian diplomacy and the need to learn from that.

Sage said:

That's true ...Chinese hackers have done considerable industrial and military espionage ...they're way ahead and may not need what we have ...except on system !

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well look at any AC , microwave oven or any kitchen applince bieng used in pakistan or india or even west im sure all of them have "made in china" stamp for sure same goes for many medical equipments and other allied mchienarry so point is China already has the capbilty to make latest hardware but the problem is making the required secerte matellurgy and making those suytems work at par with systems like those with USA or NATO allies or even russian cause its the codes and softwares which hold the key and which get changed and deleted by default if you try to copy or brerak them or reverse engineer them which USA , West or even russia gained and perfe4cted by continous R&D over decades

GURU DUTT said:

well look at any AC , microwave oven or any kitchen applince bieng used in pakistan or india or even west im sure all of them have "made in china" stamp for sure same goes for many medical equipments and other allied mchienarry so point is China already has the capbilty to make latest hardware but the problem is making the required secerte matellurgy and making those suytems work at par with systems like those with USA or NATO allies or even russian cause its the codes and softwares which hold the key and which get changed and deleted by default if you try to copy or brerak them or reverse engineer them which USA , West or even russia gained and perfe4cted by continous R&D over decades

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Chinese are as good at reverse engineering as they are at R&D...They have come up a long way ...within 50 years they have reached to the stage where they can address their own tech needs ...that's all that matter to them ...Their maths and physics geeks go straight to their defense research centres ...I think their tech is no second to the Western one ...only it has different operatinal pattern ...the western tech is very user-friendly ...Chinese one is a bit complex ...they have their own reason for that ...Chinese are very wise ...they have dedicated departments for everything ...one good aspect of communism ...everything has a department and an R&D wing !

Sage said:

Chinese are as good at reverse engineering as they are at R&D...They have come up a long way ...within 50 years they have reached to the stage where they can address their own tech needs ...that's all that matter to them ...Their maths and physics geeks go straight to their defense research centres ...I think their tech is no second to the Western one ...only it has different operatinal pattern ...the western tech is very user-friendly ...Chinese one is a bit complex ...they have their own reason for that ...Chinese are very wise ...they have dedicated departments for everything ...one good aspect of communism ...everything has a department and an R&D wing !

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point is still for at least two if not more decades china will have to work over time to reach at the level where USA is right now there is no short cut to success and chinese are already doing it

coming back to the topic of the thread well this news suggest that after F16 USA also wants to pull the plug on spares and weapons on existing and promised cobra gun ships to pakistan and link them with handing over its so called assets and terroists in exchange as Obama has an obligation to show his voters something and republicans are fast truning againt Pakistan so

i guess @MastanKhan was right as he said something on similar lines almost three months back i guess he was right after all USA has after all made up its mind to say enof is enof and trade and tech sanctions are coming ... God Bless Pakistan