Mistrust still thwarts efforts to make peace between India and Pakistan

MilSpec said:

As far as your trust is concerned, Indian Boogeyman Syndrome is bread and butter for most of you. Say for least your entire defense policy is aimed at deterrence value against "India", and national policy about not "being India"

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HaHaHa, you're speaking about nation that is hell bent on saying what it is not .........while still being clueless about what it is.... 7 decades and counting......

Mistrust and Self-Righteous - Yup sounds about right !

Donatello said:

Yes, like Indians using their so called 'proxies' in Afghanistan consulates to launch attacks in Pakistan?

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Holy warriors fighting for Kaffirs? Now what does that say about the jihad market in your state?

There are some scenarios though,

either you are believing in far-fetched fairytales spun by ISPR (Remember verge of victory in 71) usual Indian Boogeyman Syndrome
OR
Your Holy ain't that holy afterall - Which is blasphemy (hence cannot be true)
OR
these terrorists in your country are Agent Vinod and Agent Tiger and Tara Singh of Gadar, now that you haven't caught any Indian agent toting an Insas or tavor , or a sardar with a Hand Pump. This theory doesn't hold water as well.
OR
Hindu Holy warriors are crossing into pakistan through cover fire of India,- that kinda cracked me up a bit.

Donatello said:

Yea, i am sure you will deny that. Except, with the recent Afghan peace talks almost entirely in Pakistan's hand,

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Offcourse, your prime ally too believes that Taliban is the venerable arm of ISI, there is no doubt that any talks with taliban will be entirely in pakistans hand.

Donatello said:

Pakistan's increasing reach on ground in Afghanistan, means the attacks have shown a downward trend in Pakistan.....

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More power to you, but doesn't that defeat your argument, as Indian establishment is still there, consulates haven't been closed. So you are saying that irrespective of Indian presence, the attack ratio varies depending on talks with taliban.... That would be a clear indicator to a normal person of reasonable intellect.

Donatello said:

packing up Indians in Afghanistan and prompting verbal diarrhea from the likes of your Doval and Parrikar.

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I doub't Doval has made a statment since he was given the NSA position. What he might have said or not as a part of a think tank is his personal interpretations.

Donatello said:

So you can play your victim card all you want, but if you haven't noticed, that 2001-12 blood period is over. The world really doesn't care much for Indian dramas.

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True the world doesn't really care about India, that's why we have to do it ourselves.

nForce said:

Fauji Sahib.. I don't think you will find many takers for your shop-owner argument either.
If you want to portray the hindu-Muslim divide, then probably we will need better examples.

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Bhai jaan
I shared a real life example when Hindus and Muslims lived in North India before 1947.

However if you don't like this example of prejudice by Hindu majority,
then give us better example.

Thank you

Donatello said:

Nope it isn't....because the the same Indian Army that faces a nuclear power, Pakistan Army has to deal with it as well.....a force that is larger than it's own.

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The caveat being , india had a nuclear device in 1974, when Pakistani Army was beaten and battered, but not once was there are nuclear blackmail.

Donatello said:

It is natural that we will be paranoid about anything Indians say or do. No one gives a fcuk about Afghanistan or Iran. But India we do. Try telling Israelis to trust Egyptians/Syrians or Jordanians and Iraqis. So our paranoia is built in because of conventional mismatch. However, the Nukes on both sides make sure that we have a safety net to fall on when shyt really hits the fan.

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well that argument is quite blank....
India had nukes since 74, from 74 to 99 Indian nukes with it's conventional superiority did not gobble up pakistan, one may wonder why... may because it did not want to?
Israel has a genuine threat, Does pakistan have the same attention from India? Highly doubt it.

MilSpec said:

India had nukes since 74, from 74 to 99 Indian nukes with it's conventional superiority did not gobble up pakistan, one may wonder why... may because it did not want to?.

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India won't "gobble up" Pakistan

Upper castes never try to "gobble up" perceived lower castes. They just want to keep them down trodden and under control.

Problem with Pakistan is that we consider ourselves Brahmins the upper caste EQAULs in the region. And that bhai jaan, doesn't sit well with Bharatis.

Hope you understand.

The day Pakistan is under the thumb of Bharat (say like Bhutan), there will be no stress among Bharat's Hindu nationalists.

peace

I wont call it miss trust it is stupidity or they have policy to only oppose even crack goes india without ani investigatiom mater of sec blame on pak it is very easy for us we also blamed u for APS and world would have listened it but we are not playing dirty politics like india it is not about trust its about mindset

Once u sit on table u should go all they way not stop dialogue on crackers etc even if bomb goes of in india it might be from non stat actors or third piwer who dont want friendship of indo pak but india is very big but its sycke and its heart equaly small from last ten years we sincerely want to be in talks with india but indian mindset is very hard and anti pak

FaujHistorian said:

India won't "gobble up" Pakistan

Upper castes never try to "gobble up" perceived lower castes. They just want to keep them down trodden and under control.

Problem with Pakistan is that we consider ourselves Brahmins the upper caste EQAULs in the region. And that bhai jaan, doesn't sit well with Bharatis.

Hope you understand.

The day Pakistan is under the thumb of Bharat (say like Bhutan), there will be no stress among Bharat's Hindu nationalists.

peace

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This caste thing a new one, but still that invalidates the existential threat portrayed by your military....

And if your theory is correct, then there is no mistrust, it's quite clearly defined...

MilSpec said:

This caste thing a new one, but still that invalidates the existential threat portrayed by your military....

And if your theory is correct, then there is no mistrust, it's quite clearly defined...

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off course. Pakisstan as an independent power will not exist. Thus Pak army knows Bharati designs.

FaujHistorian said:

off course. Pakisstan as an independent power will not exist. Thus Pak army knows Bharati designs.

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we are on the same page then..

MilSpec said:

we are on the same page then..

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Problem with many Bharati intellecutals is that they "assume" they understand Pakistanis.

But they do not.

FaujHistorian said:

Problem with many Bharati intellecutals is that they "assume" they understand Pakistanis.
But they do not.

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We understand your Military, you haven't let our focus shift otherwise.

MilSpec said:

We understand your Military, you haven't let our focus shift otherwise.

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But military draws its strength from people. And hence the lack of understanding.

It is like a Pakistani claiming that he/she understand Bharat because of his understanding of Bharati military. How naive!

FaujHistorian said:

But military draws its strength from people. And hence the lack of understanding.

It is like a Pakistani claiming that he/she understand Bharat because of his understanding of Bharati military. How naive!

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I have my views, my interpretations of the information what I see and hear.

I do not believe, in the given circumstances peace initiatives between the two nations will work. I don't really think there is any need at this point for India to engage Pakistan, let them sort out their internal matters, and in the mean while focus on development of relations with nations where chance of success is higher.Pick it up maybe in 5-7 years...

MilSpec said:

I have my views, my interpretations of the information what I see and hear.

I do not believe, in the given circumstances peace initiatives between the two nations will work. I don't really think there is any need at this point for India to engage Pakistan, let them sort out their internal matters, and in the mean while focus on development of relations with nations where chance of success is higher.Pick it up maybe in 5-7 years...

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sounds like an excellent idea.