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'The System'-by WAJsal

Hi,

During Zia Ul Haq's term---the politicians realized that they cannot live without the military---they came up with a unique idea---they started marrying into military families.

During Zulfiqar Bhuttos regime the strong political families realized that one member of the family should be in each of the top two parties----father in one---son in the other---or wife or daughter or brother or uncle in either party----so that the control does not go away---.

So---what is secret about the Yakhni

Yakhni suggests people wake up to this reality and literally hang them both.

The good ole times of patriotic stories and "holiness" are long gone. In addition to that, Yakhni firmly believes in some corruption and printed money. It accelerates innovation provided they WORK too!
 
Forgot to mention the biggest culprit: General public. Which elects these people to these posts. And in time welcomes dictators with open hands too.

Your blaming the ignorant public is not just ................

Elections in Pakistan were never real.

Neither would be the 2018 elections.


Why nobody is mentioning the innovators of "Nazria e Zaroorat" ? Shouldn't they be the first ones to get hanged.
 
Yeah man - Every story has a similar ending!

Pak Generals didn't optimize country's interests after 9/11 because Americans threatened.

Pak Generals couldn't do anything against BB/NS because India threatened (with American support) - Even before all the threats, generals pumped these people to the top. Why? Who were they? Who gave them this right?

If that is the case - Let's take all the $$$ back from these Generals that they got from abroad + confiscate their land. Why should taxpayers be responsible of their cowardness? Or should I say they are complicit..

If they are a chicken and so concerned about their country - Why have those $ accounts?

Truth is: It's not just those threats. It's also the $. If proper system is put in place, milk & honey will stop flowing. It hurts them a lot.

It really does!

I understand that printed $ and some corruption is really important to kickstart innovation/incentives etc

But the problem is: The elite just believes in corruption WITHOUT doing what they are supposed to do!

Either the politicians are corrupt or the generals too scared..

Reality is: They both are corrupt to the core.

Neocolonialism will die and I am hoping it'll take puppets with it..

Are you a fan of Janet Yellen or something?
 
Hi,

But this is no geometry---. For the criminal---corrupt and perverted politicians---there is only one solution---either it is at the end of a barrel---or at the end of a rope---.

The examples of romans are well and good---but when the time is flying by you at warp speed---then that is not a luxury you can enjoy to teach everyone democracy---then it has to be forced thru a revolution.

It is a 7---14 days process to clean up the mess and by the time the 30th days hits---all the systems are running in a more functional manner---.

Some nations learn it by talking---others thru elections---for pakistanis---it will be thru executions---because each nation has to follow the process that suits them better.

I hear you - read you, that is - with some trepidation and sombre anticipation. Your reputation as a contrarian is well-established and this prescription fits in well. Nevertheless, I will distance myself and hope, perhaps against hope, that a more placid course of events will take place.
 
Instead of blowing his own horn Shahbaz Sharif should do something concrete for dengue elimination: Moonis Elahi !

malariacoverssh_600x450.jpg


Senior leader Pakistan Muslim League Moonis Elahi in a press statement released in Lahore today strongly criticized the Punjab government for the dengue outbreak in the province and especially in the provincial metropolis. He held Shahbaz Sharif personally responsible for the deaths caused due to dengue virus in the province. He accused the Punjab chief minister of being too occupied in blowing his own horn when he should have been actually doing something concrete to eradicate the dengue menace. Historians will remember the self-proclaimed Khadim e Ala as one ranting and raving chief minister of Punjab whose favorite pastime was his own trumpet blowing while the people were left to suffer at the hands of poverty, unemployment, criminal elements and now the dengue mosquito, said Moonis Elahi.

He called upon Shahbaz Sharif to quit his cheap one man show politics and provide the common man with immediate medical relief against the killer virus at government hospitals including the free supply of platelets and medicines for the distressed. Moonis Elahi stated that Shahbaz Sharif government had billions to spend on Jaati Umra expressway but no money for dengue treatment. Strongly criticizing the sasti roti scam, Ashyana scheme, yellow cab stunt, Moonis Elahi said that Shahbaz government had done nothing for the people except launch bogus schemes and cash upon projects launched by the PML government of Chaudhry Parvez Elahi.

He further accused Shahbaz Sharif of missing no opportunity of self praise and projection while in reality he had not even bothered to appoint a full time provincial health minister since 2008. Dengue spread in the previous years should have been enough for the government to get going this year for its eradication but what came out were negligence, incompetency and sheer indifference to public problems in Punjab, stated Moonis Elahi. He further stated that his party would expose the real faces and actual causes behind the spread of dengue disease in the coming session of the Punjab Assembly. We want to bring the actual culprits responsible for dengue outbreak in Punjab in the dock, Moonis Elahi stated at the conclusion of his statement.
 
The discussion has moved on a bit and in a good direction. I will try to reply as I go through the thread:

Any form of government gives people its basic rights to outright rights, is welcomed. People don't care what system it is. As long as, they are living a good life and the leaders are giving them the basic human needs. A very legitimate demands.
The only solution I think is, awareness and eduction in people.
Fair and quick justice to everyone, from the street vendors to PM. Once the justice system is fixed, more than half of the problems will end right there.
The above sums up everything the vast majority needs. As I have said before even in the west the vast majority is only interested in the basic necessities as well as fair and swift justice.

I strongly disagree that only waiting game and by vote things will get change ... Someone has to take responsibility and take headon against status quo ...
I agree with this. One has to look at the demographics and as I explained untill we vote following our cast/creed/chaudary/relative we will only have a technical democracy and it will carry on like this.

Leaders though all important at the moment are often irrelevant, the wheels of democracy are run by bureaucrats who more often than not are just common folks, with common means and common aspirations.
I have highlighted this fact many times but I guess it will be a long time before people start to realize this. Civil servants are the key as they draft legislation (or take part in it), day to day running/administration. So as long the common folks are there to amass wealth while they are appointed then no point in discussing issues....

Wisdom as old as the 10 commandments or vedas or Quran passed on to all of us which teach us to be righteous, to love our neighbors and to be be honest.
Couldn't agree more but as they say in Urdu (daal mein kuch kala hai but here daal hi kali hai). So it will take a generation before any true progress.

Indeed, what appears to me, is that the civil governance model was dealt a fatal blow in it's infancy, when it was the most susceptible to any such acts.
Partially but these are same people/nation, corruption was there and it was frowned upon but now it has become the norm (progress nonetheless)....

What insures a democracy, is the consistency of the national aims. What marks it as being a sound and vibrant system, is the clarity of the national objectives. That is where, the voter needs to be educated, by his/her own self.
There is no national aim. Everyone is there to amass as much as they can while there are at it. Such attitude doesn't help with developing a nation.

The bitter truth remains Pakistan still needs four to five years of a ruthless authoritative dictator (doesn't matter if he is wearing a uniform as long as he does what needs to be done) who can wipe Pakistan's politics of these corrupt dynasties, Makhdooms, Wadairas, Sardars, sellouts and Chuadhries. And he delivers simple, clear, understandable and enforceable laws.
What will happen after the 5 years?
If by some miracle we get all the right bureaucrats and honest to God leaders it will still take much longer than 5 years to fix and get the wheel rolling. One has to understand the problems and they are not on the surface but deep rooted unless you are planning to sacrifice half the nation this won't happen.
 
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The ‘System’-By WAJsal



....... Dictatorship in Pakistan has caused almost irreversible damage to the country and to its ideology; democracy, on the other hand, has never been given a proper chance to grow and prosper...

What is the "ideology" of Pakistan anyway ??

The term ‘Pakistan Ideology’ (Nazriah-e-Pakistan’) was nowhere in Jinnah's speeches before or after the creation of Pakistan in 1947. Prof. Khurshid Ahmed, one of the leading members of Jamat e Islami (JI), is said to have first coined the term ‘Nazriah-e-Pakistan’ in 1962 in "response" to Ayub Khan's (a Dictator) policy of evolving Pakistan's nationhood in accordance with progressive dictates of Jinnah. Jamat e Islami, of course, was opposed to Jinnah's vision of a progressive and modern Muslim State, and that's why it had opposed Pakistan Movement during 1940's. JI had it's own vision. JI suggested that Pakistan Ideology should be squarely based on policies constructed on the teachings of the Qu’ran and Sunnah and should strive to turn Pakistan into an Islamic State.


And if you are talking about the "damage" caused by Gen. Zia ul Haq (a close compatriot of Jamat e Islami), I am no fan of Zia, but I think it is Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto who deserves the blame .. It was during his regime that religion became the official legitimizing strategy for all political manoeuvres. In a frenzy to break the momentum of the PNA-led movement, numerous Islamisation measures erupted. Shariat laws were introduced; gambling, horse racing, and alcohol were banned. The PPP manifesto was duly amended, making Friday the weekly holiday, introducing Quranic studies as mandatory for all students, establishing Ulema (clerical) academies and so forth . These moves established the PPP’s dedication to the cause of Islam, which became Bhutto’s most powerful defence to fight the PNA in their own battlefield.


He was the one who made Islam the state religion and set pre-requisites for the head of state to be Muslim.... One of Bhutto’s last desperate bids to buy off religious parties agitating for his overthrow with U.S. backing was to declare the Ahmadiyya Community non-Muslim in 1974 ... The concept of "constitutional kafir" was introduced for the first time, thereby making "official adoption" of sectarianism (as a state policy)...


In 1976, ZAB controversially appointed General Zia-ul-Haq the Chief of Army Staff in another move to appease the JI (of whom Zia was a close compatriot) ... Zia ul Haq was the Pakistan army's most junior Lt. General when Bhutto selected him to be Chief of the Army Staff.... Later regretting his choice, ZAB told the Supreme Court (which sent him to the gallows): "I appointed a Chief of Army belonging to Jamaat-i-Islami and the result is before us." ... Bhutto institutionalized mullahism through constitution, and then he appointed an Army Chief belonging to JI .. !! Who is the 'actual' culprit behind the "damage" then ?? Zia, or the "politician" Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto ?







Now coming to the second part of your statement, "democracy, on the other hand, has never been given a proper chance to grow and prosper", the question arises who was "originally" responsible for this ? Politicians or Military ?

Once Pakistan was created, Jinnah reportedly tried to open the membership of Muslim League(ML) to all citizens of Pakistan (irrespective of religion), or alternatively dissolve it (as it had achieved its goal) .. Unfortunately he was unsuccessful ... Jinnah, who had been a Bombayite, had no similar roots in Karachi (the new Capital) .. Time and again he was made aware that he was an outsider. Similarly, many of his close associates (like Liaquat Ali Khan, Ibrahim Ismail Chundrigar etc. ) had no roots in Pakistan ... This was one of the reasons the ML didn't want to hold general elections in Pakistan... The first General Elections were held in Pakistan in 1970 (i.e. 23 years after the creation of Pakistan), whereas, In India, the first General Elections were held in 1951-52 ..


After the death of Jinnah in 1948, there was not a single person in ML who could effectively replace Jinnah as the undisputed leader of the ML or Pakistan. This was when "Islam" was brought into politics by the Leaguers for the first time (to be used as a political tool) .. "Prostitution of Islam for political ends" as Iskander Mirza described it later !!

One very important (but often ignored) development was the 1954 provincial elections held in East Pakistan .. Elections were due in 1951, but the ML used delay tactics (though it didn't help them in the long run). The elections resulted in a landslide victory for the socialists and nationalists i.e. United Front which won 228 seats in a House of 309 (including nine reserved seats for women). On the other hand, the Muslim League, the party in power directly or indirectly ever since 1937, managed to get only 7 seats ... This heralded the rise of Bengali Nationalists .. But On May 30, just after two months, the ministry was dismissed and direct governor’s rule was imposed.... Now ML knew that in case general elections were held, the Bengali Nationalists would come to power in the center as well (as Bengalis formed the "Majority"), and the political hegemony of ML would be over ...

This was when ML decided to use "Islam" as a political tool against the socialists of East Pakistan ... And those Mullahs who had openly opposed Jinnah and proudly rejected Jinnah's "unIslamic" ideals, were invited to join ML (see Munir Report of 1954 for details) ....... The country was named "Islamic Republic" in 1956 ... We were the first one in the world to add prefix "Islamic" to our republican status .. ... Elections were further delayed by ML .. In 1957 most of the detractors came together in the left-wing and secular National Awami Party (NAP) and were confident that the party was in a good position to win the most seats in the promised direct elections (that were to be held in 1958). But then first Martial Law was imposed in the country in late 1958 by the "elected" president of ML who invited Army to take over hoping that this would keep Bengalis (and others) permanently away from the corridors of power, as they had almost no representation in the predominantly Punjabi Army of Pakistan ... (But this proved to be "catastrophic" in the long run ... No amount of "Islam" or "military force" could hold Nationalist Bengalis for long ... And in 1971, we paid the price of "selfish" policies adopted by the ML) ..





It was the Muslim League power hungry politicians who didn't give democracy a proper chance to grow and prosper in the newly born state of Pakistan. Army came in much later (invited by Muslim Leaguers).

It's always easy (in fact fashionable) to bash Pak Army and hold it responsible for all our ills ... Politicians are equally (if not more) responsible ...



Furtive Fallacy and Casual Oversimplification, but overall a nice write-up. Will get back to You on other points (esp. the "Democracy" part) when I have time.

Regards
 
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What is the "ideology" of Pakistan anyway ??

The term ‘Pakistan Ideology’ (Nazriah-e-Pakistan’) was nowhere in Jinnah's speeches before or after the creation of Pakistan in 1947. Prof. Khurshid Ahmed, one of the leading members of Jamat e Islami (JI), is said to have first coined the term ‘Nazriah-e-Pakistan’ in 1962 in "response" to Ayub Khan's (a Dictator) policy of evolving Pakistan's nationhood in accordance with progressive dictates of Jinnah. Jamat e Islami, of course, was opposed to Jinnah's vision of a progressive and modern Muslim State, and that's why it had opposed Pakistan Movement during 1940's. JI had it's own vision. JI suggested that Pakistan Ideology should be squarely based on policies constructed on the teachings of the Qu’ran and Sunnah and should strive to turn Pakistan into an Islamic State.


And if you are talking about the "damage" caused by Gen. Zia ul Haq (a close compatriot of Jamat e Islami), I am no fan of Zia, but I think it is Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto who deserves the blame .. It was during his regime that religion became the official legitimizing strategy for all political manoeuvres. In a frenzy to break the momentum of the PNA-led movement, numerous Islamisation measures erupted. Shariat laws were introduced; gambling, horse racing, and alcohol were banned. The PPP manifesto was duly amended, making Friday the weekly holiday, introducing Quranic studies as mandatory for all students, establishing Ulema (clerical) academies and so forth . These moves established the PPP’s dedication to the cause of Islam, which became Bhutto’s most powerful defence to fight the PNA in their own battlefield.


He was the one who made Islam the state religion and set pre-requisites for the head of state to be Muslim.... One of Bhutto’s last desperate bids to buy off religious parties agitating for his overthrow with U.S. backing was to declare the Ahmadiyya Community non-Muslim in 1974 ... The concept of "constitutional kafir" was introduced for the first time, thereby making "official adoption" of sectarianism (as a state policy)...


In 1976, ZAB controversially appointed General Zia-ul-Haq the Chief of Army Staff in another move to appease the JI (of whom Zia was a close compatriot) ... Zia ul Haq was the Pakistan army's most junior Lt. General when Bhutto selected him to be Chief of the Army Staff.... Later regretting his choice, ZAB told the Supreme Court (which sent him to the gallows): "I appointed a Chief of Army belonging to Jamaat-i-Islami and the result is before us." ... Bhutto institutionalized mullahism through constitution, and then he appointed an Army Chief belonging to JI .. !! Who is the 'actual' culprit behind the "damage" then ?? Zia, or the "politician" Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto ?







Now coming to the second part of your statement, "democracy, on the other hand, has never been given a proper chance to grow and prosper", the question arises who was "originally" responsible for this ? Politicians or Military ?

Once Pakistan was created, Jinnah reportedly tried to open the membership of Muslim League(ML) to all citizens of Pakistan (irrespective of religion), or alternatively dissolve it (as it had achieved its goal) .. Unfortunately he was unsuccessful ... Jinnah, who had been a Bombayite, had no similar roots in Karachi (the new Capital) .. Time and again he was made aware that he was an outsider. Similarly, many of his close associates (like Liaquat Ali Khan, Ibrahim Ismail Chundrigar etc. ) had no roots in Pakistan ... This was one of the reasons the ML didn't want to hold general elections in Pakistan... The first General Elections were held in Pakistan in 1970 (i.e. 23 years after the creation of Pakistan), whereas, In India, the first General Elections were held in 1951-52 ..


After the death of Jinnah in 1948, there was not a single person in ML who could effectively replace Jinnah as the undisputed leader of the ML or Pakistan. This was when "Islam" was brought into politics by the Leaguers for the first time (to be used as a political tool) .. "Prostitution of Islam for political ends" as Iskander Mirza described it later !!

One very important (but often ignored) development was the 1954 provincial elections held in East Pakistan .. Elections were due in 1951, but the ML used delay tactics (though it didn't help them in the long run). The elections resulted in a landslide victory for the socialists and nationalists i.e. United Front which won 228 seats in a House of 309 (including nine reserved seats for women). On the other hand, the Muslim League, the party in power directly or indirectly ever since 1937, managed to get only 7 seats ... This heralded the rise of Bengali Nationalists .. But On May 30, just after two months, the ministry was dismissed and direct governor’s rule was imposed.... Now ML knew that in case general elections were held, the Bengali Nationalists would come to power in the center as well (as Bengalis formed the "Majority"), and the political hegemony of ML would be over ...

This was when ML decided to use "Islam" as a political tool against the socialists of East Pakistan ... And those Mullahs who had openly opposed Jinnah and proudly rejected Jinnah's "unIslamic" ideals, were invited to join ML (see Munir Report of 1954 for details) ....... The country was named "Islamic Republic" in 1956 ... We were the first one in the world to add prefix "Islamic" to our republican status .. ... Elections were further delayed by ML .. In 1957 most of the detractors came together in the left-wing and secular National Awami Party (NAP) and were confident that the party was in a good position to win the most seats in the promised direct elections (that were to be held in 1958). But then first Martial Law was imposed in the country in late 1958 by the "elected" president of ML who invited Army to take over hoping that this would keep Bengalis (and others) permanently away from the corridors of power, as they had almost no representation in the predominantly Punjabi Army of Pakistan ... (But this proved to be "catastrophic" in the long run ... No amount of "Islam" or "military force" could hold Nationalist Bengalis for long ... And in 1971, we paid the price of "selfish" policies adopted by the ML) ..





It was the Muslim League power hungry politicians who didn't give democracy a proper chance to grow and prosper in the newly born state of Pakistan. Army came in much later (invited by Muslim Leaguers).

It's always easy (in fact fashionable) to bash Pak Army and hold it responsible for all our ills ... Politicians are equally (if not more) responsible ...



Furtive Fallacy and Casual Oversimplification, but overall a nice write-up. Will get back to You on other points (esp. the "Democracy" part) when I have time.

Regards

Absolutely fascinating read. You sir should write a book at some point if you haven't already.

@Joe Shearer
 
Absolutely fascinating read. You sir should write a book at some point if you haven't already.

@Joe Shearer

I am an 'arms' -length' admirer of his. He is extremely hard-working in his research, but in my personal opinion, and this is just my opinion, he hijacks the facts to make his patriotic cases. For that reason, I do not get into discussions with him, because he will never admit a mistake, either his own, or a corporate one.
 
I am an 'arms' -length' admirer of his. He is extremely hard-working in his research, but in my personal opinion, and this is just my opinion, he hijacks the facts to make his patriotic cases. For that reason, I do not get into discussions with him, because he will never admit a mistake, either his own, or a corporate one.

Name a person who admits his mistake...at least when its the matter of patriotic cases as you said.
 
Buhahhahahahha I knew you'd say this I was about to write that don't quote your name..Its time to leave the planet.

I have seen joe admit his mistakes/errors a lot more than people (Esp those that call him doggedly stubborn and blind etc) give him credit for.

You just have to clearly illustrate the evidenced based logic. He has given up sheer faith for that very reason.

However not everything can be illustrated as such, hence the scope for debate and engagement.
 
First, I don't write sentences like,"Check the both sentences and make some sense."

It should be, "Check the two sentences, and try to make sense of each of them."
how about : Check both the sentences, and try to make sense of each of them ?
 

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