Are Russian T-90 Tanks Outsmarting US-Made TOWs?

[Dazzler]

do we have TOW 2B? Or 2A?

both

 

[Psychic]

In the battle for Aleppo in Syria where Sunni rebel forces are in retreat is the role played by Russian T-90 tanks which is claimed to be getting better of the Saudi-supplied tube-launched, optically-tracked, wireless-guided (TOW) Weapon System.

"W" in 'TOW' stands for wire guided, not wireless.
It is something like this

Note the wires...Its not wireless.

The operator guides the missile by keeping the "cross-hairs" on the target till impact.

 

[Penguin]

@Dazzler its concerning isnt it? Given that we have a lot of TOWs as well and indians have T90s.

"W" in 'TOW' stands for wire guided, not wireless.
It is something like this

Note the wires...Its not wireless.
The operator guides the missile by keeping the "cross-hairs" on the target till impact.

Originally the W stood for 'wire-guided'. However, for the RF versions of TOW, sometimes the 'wire-guided' is replaced by 'wireless'.
See e.g.
Raytheon: Tube-launched, optically-tracked, wireless-guided (TOW) weapon system
Raytheon introduces next-generation TOW EagleFire launcher - Army Technology

Defense is provided by TShU-2 “Shtora” optical-electronical countermeasure complex. This complex decreases anti-tank guided missile, with half automatic guiding system, hit probability in 70 – 75% and makes strays for laser guided systems and laser based rangefinders. Complex consists from optical-electronical suppression station TShU-1 and aerosol screen making device. Last mentioned consist from two modules (infrared flashlights) placed in turret’s frontal part and making coded infrared signals, preventing correct missiles guidance. Aerosol system registers irradiance by laser sight, designates irradiation source location, chooses on from 12 smoke grenade launcher placed from both turret sides, makes electric signal proportional to angle needed to turn turret with grenade launchers, and fires aerosol grenade on 55 m distance. This measure provides protection from laser guided anti-tank missiles. As much as aerosol screen devices are used from 902B “Tuchia” smoke grenade launchers, it makes available to use smoke grenades ZD6 covering tank from visual and infrared notifying. Smoke screens can be also set with thermo smoke device, generating smoke from fuel.

T-90A Russian MBT (In detail) | Thai Military and Asian Region

The Shtora-1 armoured fighting vehicle defence system has been developed by the Zenit Research and Production Corporation to increase the battlefield survivability of vehicles against attack from Anti-Tank Guided Weapons (ATGWs) with a Semi-Automatic Command to Line Of Sight (SACLOS) guidance system as well as missiles and artillery projectiles that use laser illumination.

The complete Shtora-1 system comprises four key components:
(1) electro-optical interference station comprising jammer, modulator and control panel with a total
weight of 80 kg. Typically an MBT would have two of these with one jammer being mounted either side of the main armament pointing forwards
(2) bank of grenade dischargers mounted either side of the turret firing forwards capable of firing grenades dispensing an aerosol screen, weight 115 kg
(3) laser warning system with precision and coarse heads weighing 20 kg each
(4) control system with a total weight of 15 kg comprising control panel, microprocessor and manual screen laying panel; this processes the information from the sensors and activates the aerosol screen laying system.

The laser warning system detects the threat laser system and automatically orientates the turret in the direction of the threat. It then triggers the grenade launchers creating an offboard aerosol screen. The composition of this cloud is claimed to screen the tank against laser range-finders and designators and is also claimed to be sufficiently hot to seduce infra-red homing weapons away from the MBT.

The jammer, which is designated the TShU1-7, introduces a spurious signal into the guidance circuitry of the incoming ATGW through the use of coded pulsed infra-red jamming signals continuously generated. It is claimed to be effective against Western ATGWs such as the TOW, HOT, MILAN and Dragon as well as Eastern ATGWs such as the AT-3 ‘Sagger’.
The TShU1-7 has a specified life of 1,000 hours, a Mean Time Between Failures (MTBF) of 250 hours and a radiation source life of 50 hours. It operates from a 27 V DC power supply with the infra-red jamming source consuming 1 kW of power.
In addition to being used to jam incoming ATGWs, the manufacturer claims that the TShU1-7 system has a target illuminating capability, including for night vision devices.

Shtora-1 has three methods of operation:
(1) fully automatic
(2) semi-automatic, target designation
(3) manual and emergency mode.

According to the manufacturer, the installation of the Shtora-1 system on an MBT reduces the target hit probability by the following factors:
(1) TOW and Dragon ATGWs, Maverick, Hellfire and Copperhead laser seeker systems by 4 to 5 times
(2) MILAN and HOT ATGWs by about 3 times
(3) artillery and tank projectiles fired from systems with laser range-finders by about three times.

T-90A Russian MBT (In detail) | Thai Military and Asian Region

IMHO, if the unit is wireguided, there are no detectable rf emissions unless the operators use their tactical radio.

IMHO, if the missile is wireguided or wirelessguided rather than laserbeam riding and if no laser rangefinder is used but the target acquisition system, then there is nothing for the laser warning system to detect. Hence there can be no automatic or semi-automatic turret cueing and firing of aerosol grenades to screen the tank. An aerosol screen would not affect non-laser missile guidance or missile control, although it could visually obscure a tank like a smoke screen)

So, IMHO, while Shtora is a nifty piece of kit, whether it can effective be used to protect a tank depend not only on the system itself, but also on the weapons, sensors and tactics adopted by force attacking the tank.

The detection of laser sources takes place around the vehicle in the 360 degree range. In the range of 45 degrees right and left of the cannon by precision laser sensors and in the other sectors 90 degrees left, right or behind the tower by coarse laser sensors. Shtora-1 is capable of reflected laser scatter, muzzle flashes fire Direction weapons, sunlight reflections, light energy from search lights, highly heat-radiating objects can be seen, among other things on the battlefield and filter out as non-hazardous. The system interacts with the fire control system of the combat vehicle, the tower directional drives, the eventual drive the commander’s cupola, the intercom, the speed sensor of the vehicle and the smoke grenade launcher. Recognized laser radiation of the vehicle crew notified visually and acoustically in accordance with their characteristics.On the driver’s seat, a light indicates the optimal direction of movement to dodge in accordance with the vehicle speed and wind direction and wind strength. The used means fog or aerosols also cover the used spectral range of thermal images and laser off effectively.
T-90 MBT – Updated | Thai Military and Asian Region
IMHO, close up, high angle side and rear shots should stand a better chance of going undetected by Shtora

Q: What version of T-90 is used in Syria? Only the T-90SM has an increased situational awareness to close threats thanks to 4 TV cameras mounted on the roof covering all angles of the vehicle. And Relikt ERA tiles

 

[Penguin]

The T-90A was deployed to Syria in 2015 to support the Russian involvement in the Syrian Civil War.In early February 2016, Syrian Army forces began using T-90As in combat.

T-90A/T-90S
> 4S22 (Kontakt-5) ERA tiles: 800-830 v APFSDS and 1150-1350 v HEAT (max, over the frontal arc)
> 950 hp (736 kW) for V-92S2 12-cyl. diesel engine (20.4 hp/tonne)
T-90 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Equipment of the Syrian Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By comparison
T-72
> Kontakt-1 ERA: 480-540 v apfsds and 900-950v. HEAT
> V-12 diesel 780 hp (582 kw) 18.8 hp/t
T-72 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Penetration TOW
BGM-71A/B 430 mm (exact value)
BGM-71C 630 mm (exact value) = Improved TOW (ITOW) w/ improved shaped-charge warhead
BGM-71D 900 mm = TOW-2 w. enlarged main warhead
BGM-71E 900 mm behind a layer of ERA = TOW-2A optimized to defeat reactive armor with tandem warheads
BGM-71F no data = TOW-2B top-down attack variant using explosively formed penetrators (EFP)
BGM-71 TOW - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tow-2

Tow-2A

Tow-2B Aero (Wireguided)

 

[Umair Nawaz]

both

u sure? Dude im having a heart attack here, give me proper answer.

 

[Bornubus]

TOW with "Top attack" variant is a threat to any modern Tank but the older variants are pretty obsolete for T 90M and T 90A .

Even KORNET without top attack capability is comparable with TOW because its Brute force can destroy any tank even Markava.

@500 Which is better

TOW B or Top attack or KORNET ?

 

[500]

Shtora does not protects sides and coded ATGMs like TOW-2
Kontackt-5 does not protect vs tandem warheads.

Sides and rear of T-90 TOW can take without any problem.
Front in some spots can withstand TOW (expect TOW-2B that attacks top).

TOW with "Top attack" variant is a threat to any modern Tank but the older variants are pretty obsolete for T 90M and T 90A .

Even KORNET without top attack capability is comparable with TOW because its Brute force can destroy any tank.

@500 Which is better

TOW B or Top attack or KORNET ?

Kornet has more range and more compact.
TOW-2B has top attack, but brute force of Kornet is enough against most of tanks including the front.

So overall Kornet is little bit better.

 

[phantomrush]

Shtora does not protects sides and coded ATGMs like TOW-2
Kontackt-5 does not protect vs tandem warheads.

Sides and rear of T-90 TOW can take without any problem.
Front in some spots can withstand TOW (expect TOW-2B that attacks top).


Kornet has more range and more compact.
TOW-2B has top attack, but brute force of Kornet is enough against most of tanks including the front.

So overall Kornet is little bit better.

Continue to lie. http://webm.land/media/g6se.webm

The T-90A was deployed to Syria in 2015 to support the Russian involvement in the Syrian Civil War.In early February 2016, Syrian Army forces began using T-90As in combat.

T-90A/T-90S
> 4S22 (Kontakt-5) ERA tiles: 800-830 v APFSDS and 1150-1350 v HEAT (max, over the frontal arc)
> 950 hp (736 kW) for V-92S2 12-cyl. diesel engine (20.4 hp/tonne)
T-90 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Equipment of the Syrian Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By comparison
T-72
> Kontakt-1 ERA: 480-540 v apfsds and 900-950v. HEAT
> V-12 diesel 780 hp (582 kw) 18.8 hp/t
T-72 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Penetration TOW
BGM-71A/B 430 mm (exact value)
BGM-71C 630 mm (exact value) = Improved TOW (ITOW) w/ improved shaped-charge warhead
BGM-71D 900 mm = TOW-2 w. enlarged main warhead
BGM-71E 900 mm behind a layer of ERA = TOW-2A optimized to defeat reactive armor with tandem warheads
BGM-71F no data = TOW-2B top-down attack variant using explosively formed penetrators (EFP)
BGM-71 TOW - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tow-2

Tow-2A

Tow-2B Aero (Wireguided)

In Syria, the T-90 sample in 1992. There's another kind of armor tank corps forehead and welded turret. This armor is better against APDS, but worse against cumulative. They do not have many systems that are on the T-90S and T-90A.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

So a good countermeasure could be to have a large number of laser binoculars
which paints the target until they run out of countermeasures.

You buy them for $2-300 single qty.

 

[500]

Continue to lie. http://webm.land/media/g6se.webm

Thats not TOW retard. Thats obviously either Fagot or Konkurs.

This is Indian T90:

As u can see, Shtora jammers are removed. Because they are not effective.

This is newest Russian version of T-90:

As u can see, Shtora jammers are removed. Because they are not effective.

 

[phantomrush]

Thats not TOW retard. Thats obviously either Fagot or Konkurs.

This is Indian T90:

As u can see, Shtora jammers are removed. Because they are not effective.

This is newest Russian version of T-90:

As u can see, Shtora jammers are removed. Because they are not effective.

Retard is you. I did not write it TOW-2. This contest. Aiming Competition available through the thermal sight. Same as on the TOW-2B.

If you notice that these do not have tanks and KAZ Arena. In your opinion, if the tank does not have the Arena, it is therefore not effective?
Let me give you a little formal text of the information booklet UVZ: "Installation of active protection system (" Arena-E "for export version), as well as means of complex optical-electronic suppression (eg" Shtora ")."

 

[Bornubus]

Thats not TOW retard. Thats obviously either Fagot or Konkurs.

This is Indian T90:


As u can see, Shtora jammers are removed. Because they are not effective.

This is newest Russian version of T-90:



As u can see, Shtora jammers are removed. Because they are not effective.

India had 2 versions of T 90,the earlier 310 purchase were T 90S and later 600 + are T 90M with several Western and Israeli componenets,it also has our own Kanchan Armor.

TRISHUL: India’s ‘Born Again’ T-90M MBT

......................................................................................................................................................
India`s own effort to upgrade existing T-90

T-90S MBT equipped with IRDE-developed and BEL-built commander’s panoramic sight and driver’s uncooled thermal imager (derived from that developed for the Arjun Mk1A MBT) have just gotten underway. If all goes well, then these two items will be retrofitted on to both the first 310 T-90S MBTs acquired for the Indian Army just about a decade ago, as well as on 1,000 T-72M1 MBTs that are due to undergo a deep upgrade. For both MBT-types, VRDE has already developed the APU

The CVRDE-upgraded prototype of the T-90S has done away with the T01-K04 and substitutes it with the IRDE-developed and BEL-built commander’s panoramic sight (which houses a SAGEM-built MATIS-STD thermal imager operating in the 3-5 micron bandwidth), which has resulted in enhanced static visibility levels for both the gunner and commander.

In addition, the IV528-2 digital ballistics computer has given way to an indigenous solution developed by TATA Power Strategic Electronics Division, while the IRDE-developed driver’s uncooled thermal imaging night sight has replaced the TVN-5 night-vision device.

MMW-based IFF system has been installed for enhancing the MBT crew’s situational awareness.

track-wraps have been indigenised by AMW-MGM Forgings Pvt Ltd, which has also developed tracks with metal/rubber-brushed parallel pin-jointed gearings, stamped track-links adapted to accept rubber pads, with steel needles on the track-pins providing conductivity and picking up static electricity from rubber-brushed pin-jointed gearings during movemen

 

[500]

Retard is you. I did not write it TOW-2.

I wrote TOW-2. U accused me of lie and posted video with Fagot/Konkurs.

If you notice that these do not have tanks and KAZ Arena. In your opinion, if the tank does not have the Arena, it is therefore not effective?

Arena is very expensive and never was operational. Shtora jammers on the other hand are operational and super cheap. They are nothing but IR searchlights.

India had 2 versions of T 90,the earlier 310 purchase were T 90S and later 600 + are T 90M with several Western and Israeli componenets,it also has our own Kanchan Armor.

TRISHUL: India’s ‘Born Again’ T-90M MBT

View attachment 294077
View attachment 294074

View attachment 294075

View attachment 294076

View attachment 294078


View attachment 294079











......................................................................................................................................................
India`s own effort to upgrade existing T-90

T-90S MBT equipped with IRDE-developed and BEL-built commander’s panoramic sight and driver’s uncooled thermal imager (derived from that developed for the Arjun Mk1A MBT) have just gotten underway. If all goes well, then these two items will be retrofitted on to both the first 310 T-90S MBTs acquired for the Indian Army just about a decade ago, as well as on 1,000 T-72M1 MBTs that are due to undergo a deep upgrade. For both MBT-types, VRDE has already developed the APU

The CVRDE-upgraded prototype of the T-90S has done away with the T01-K04 and substitutes it with the IRDE-developed and BEL-built commander’s panoramic sight (which houses a SAGEM-built MATIS-STD thermal imager operating in the 3-5 micron bandwidth), which has resulted in enhanced static visibility levels for both the gunner and commander.

In addition, the IV528-2 digital ballistics computer has given way to an indigenous solution developed by TATA Power Strategic Electronics Division, while the IRDE-developed driver’s uncooled thermal imaging night sight has replaced the TVN-5 night-vision device.

MMW-based IFF system has been installed for enhancing the MBT crew’s situational awareness.

track-wraps have been indigenised by AMW-MGM Forgings Pvt Ltd, which has also developed tracks with metal/rubber-brushed parallel pin-jointed gearings, stamped track-links adapted to accept rubber pads, with steel needles on the track-pins providing conductivity and picking up static electricity from rubber-brushed pin-jointed gearings during movemen

None of tanks above has Shtora jammers:

 

[phantomrush]

India had 2 versions of T 90,the earlier 310 purchase were T 90S and later 600 + are T 90M with several Western and Israeli componenets,it also has our own Kanchan Armor.

TRISHUL: India’s ‘Born Again’ T-90M MBT

View attachment 294077
View attachment 294074

View attachment 294075

View attachment 294076

View attachment 294078


View attachment 294079











......................................................................................................................................................
India`s own effort to upgrade existing T-90

T-90S MBT equipped with IRDE-developed and BEL-built commander’s panoramic sight and driver’s uncooled thermal imager (derived from that developed for the Arjun Mk1A MBT) have just gotten underway. If all goes well, then these two items will be retrofitted on to both the first 310 T-90S MBTs acquired for the Indian Army just about a decade ago, as well as on 1,000 T-72M1 MBTs that are due to undergo a deep upgrade. For both MBT-types, VRDE has already developed the APU

The CVRDE-upgraded prototype of the T-90S has done away with the T01-K04 and substitutes it with the IRDE-developed and BEL-built commander’s panoramic sight (which houses a SAGEM-built MATIS-STD thermal imager operating in the 3-5 micron bandwidth), which has resulted in enhanced static visibility levels for both the gunner and commander.

In addition, the IV528-2 digital ballistics computer has given way to an indigenous solution developed by TATA Power Strategic Electronics Division, while the IRDE-developed driver’s uncooled thermal imaging night sight has replaced the TVN-5 night-vision device.

MMW-based IFF system has been installed for enhancing the MBT crew’s situational awareness.

track-wraps have been indigenised by AMW-MGM Forgings Pvt Ltd, which has also developed tracks with metal/rubber-brushed parallel pin-jointed gearings, stamped track-links adapted to accept rubber pads, with steel needles on the track-pins providing conductivity and picking up static electricity from rubber-brushed pin-jointed gearings during movemen

If you look at the inside of nothing "Western" is not visible. In addition, thermal sights on Catherine C.

 

[Bornubus]

I wrote TOW-2. U accused me of lie and posted video with Fagot/Konkurs.


Arena is very expensive and never was operational. Shtora jammers on the other hand are operational and super cheap. They are nothing but IR searchlights.


None of tanks above has Shtora jammers:

View attachment 294081

Yes none of the tank has Shtora, there was some news about Swedish one provided by Saab but I am not sure.