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JF-17 Thunder: Made for the PAF

Pappy,

You need to stop these stupid clever remarks---. I know that you being an indian are the cleverest most species on earth---but please---slow down----. Thank you.
Dear sir,

Your physical calculations dont seem to add up,
Your idea of intuitive missile brain concept doesn't have any statistical standing,
and then you are stating incorrect values...

When pointed out, you are making personal comments instead of an objective discussion... Almost seems someone has hacked your account, very different from the Mastan Khan we have known on this forum for years.

My post wasn't to offend you, but to have a discussion, but now that you have made yourself clear, I will steer clear.

regards.
 
Dear sir,

Your physical calculations dont seem to add up,
Your idea of intuitive missile brain concept doesn't have any statistical standing,
and then you are stating incorrect values...

When pointed out, you are making personal comments instead of an objective discussion... Almost seems someone has hacked your account, very different from the Mastan Khan we have known on this forum for years.

My post wasn't to offend you, but to have a discussion, but now that you have made yourself clear, I will steer clear.

regards.


Pappy,

You questions are getting silly----. Any more information about the bvr striking the F22---and the bureau would be knocking at my doors---and with as much information as I am searching right now----I am surprised---they are not here yet----.

They would want to know from where I am getting the information---and what is my interest in getting that information---why I am so keen on this information. What am I going to say---hey dude---I am just bored and started jacking around----????

I don't give a fck if the information is wrong----at least we had a good discussion---but what if by some stupid chance it is right---then from where the fcuk am I going to find the source for them. They are going to ream me another ar-sehole.

You need to understand that this is a HOT subject----or maybe you are " intentionally " trying to probe me for more.
 
Pappy,

You questions are getting silly----. Any more information about the bvr striking the F22---and the bureau would be knocking at my doors---and with as much information as I am searching right now----I am surprised---they are not here yet----.

They would want to know from where I am getting the information---and what is my interest in getting that information---why I am so keen on this information. What am I going to say---hey dude---I am just bored and started jacking around----????

I don't give a fck if the information is wrong----at least we had a good discussion---but what if by some stupid chance it is right---then from where the fcuk am I going to find the source for them. They are going to ream me another ar-sehole.

You need to understand that this is a HOT subject----or maybe you are " intentionally " trying to probe me for more.

Best to leave it at that, no point in creating issues for an online forum.

If someone is uninformed as to how fast, in leaps and bounds IRST technology has progressed, so be it.

:cheers:
 
Best to leave it at that, no point in creating issues for an online forum.

If someone is uninformed as to how fast, in leaps and bounds IRST technology has progressed, so be it.

:cheers:

IRST has solid value in future air to air combat, and valuable system for Block 3 upgrade. I am sure we will see some kind of IRST addition to future JF17 batches.
 
In case of jf17 IRST and And Data sharing b/w ground radars and awacs and other jets can get f22 like target locked even at greater ranges which is possible. We have tps 77 radars and other chinese recently inducted which can detect Stealth targets and simultaneously share the abc of their location rapidly to PAF fighters.

Further more I believe our F16 Block 52+ or Jf17 can be modified to carry EA 18 Style equipment to provide front line target designation of targets to its fighters.

I dont believe AESA has anything to do with Stealth detection. IT is itself a technology that causes low detection to itself. But detecting of Stealth targets can be done by simple pulse Doppler too if powerful enough. Remember Eurofighter when pitted against f22 were equipped with pulse doppler and detected f22 at some angles if not any. I believe Pakistan already possess such tech even in OBL raid time we had TPS 77 which is aesa but didnt detect those choppers according to news and stuff but I believe we did detect them.
We can also change the frequency of radar signals at which our survelliance ground radars detect to lower frequency or higher to detect stealth jets.
 
@MilSpec @MastanKhan Sir, its ok you came up with some idea which is great and try to explain some with calculation of speed and direction etc. I want to add something in your discussion ignore if you find it unnecessary and rubbish. I will limit only to the F22 against the X fighter plane with loads of BVR which will be fired on F22.

First F-22 is the airsuperiority fighter with the stealth, powerfull radar, center fussion of various passive and active sensors and extremely powerful calculating mission computer (rumor is that they are using intel core i-8 or 10 who knows)and long range modified BVR aim120E, which give the f-22 a distinctive advantage of over the top attack profile.
As a airsuperiority fighter F-22 have very power Aesa radar with 2000 modules for first detect, first shoot capability.
All your calculation of the radars and the detection range have a flaw and that is it is only valid in the ideal condition and on paper that is both planes are coming in the perfect opposite direction and at the same altitude. The radar could be visualize in mind like the torch light with the conical shape in the dark which is in search of the enemy. The one with the bigger and powerful radar have much chances to detect the target, the same rules also follows for the AWAAC which will have the most powerfull radar airborne but it does not indicates that it will detect all air target outside the beam shape of the radar. F-22 distintive advantage of the passive sensors makes it possible for the pilot to avoid the radar range and even target it with the passive weapons. This technique has been tried by the european somehow in the form of SPECTRA with limited ways. Now in dark if you turn you torch on then you loose all your stealth and you will show your location to the enemy, so F-22 will keep its radar off, but by doing that it won't get the enemy location and could not target the enemy with its BVR, then how it will achieve its target is explained bellow.

Coming to the 1 bvr fired to the highly agile fighter plane scenario, first the modern BVR which is 50g capable and 4mach speed have very large turn radius as compare to the 9g 1mach fighter plane and the pilot could outperform or dodge the bvr missile with various aerodynamic turn technique like barrel roll, etc and certainly TVC is not required for achieving it only problem is the speed of BVR gives pilot less time to decide like 15-25 sec max.

For targetting F-22 as the Mastan sir have suggested that the barrage of BVR fighter, will give more chances in the sucessful. targetting, but for that you need to first detect the airsuperiority target which have more advantage which is explained bellow.

1. F-22 can use other F-22 radar for acquiring the clear picture off the battle field and also can target using that.
2. F-22 have the modified AIM 120c7 BVR with the top attack capability which increases the overall range (no oem discloses its true range, the range told are only the marketing value), and give him the distincive protection against the ECM jammers, stealth from MAWS etc.
3. F-22 have much powerful mission computer or the supercomputer airborne which is capable of doing calculation thousands time for the passive detection and thus even allow the pilot to check the location of the enemy out of the range of its sensors.
4. F-22 acts more like the sniper aka the enemy could not see him but it can target the enemy from the long distance. Now if 3 F-22 and 12 X are going face to face, the first F-22 is flying way backward that its other 2 F-22 and only him have its radar turn on and others F-22 are getting the information or the radar pictures passively with the unique datalink with high and fast bandwidth. The enemy X could only see first F-22 which is outof range of firing BVR but the two F-22 which are 20-30 km more forward is invisible to the enemy, who would be indulging in marking the targets the X enemy in the memory of the mission computer which will fire the barage of the BVRs automatically with the computer aided targeting and say 10 X fighter planes are distroyed due to the fact the distance from which the BVR was fire gives the BVR no space to dolge and 2 X survives using their flares and other countermeasures.
5. The remaining 2 X planes will be then enganged with the 2 F-22 in dogfight in which it is an expert with 3-d TVC and high manuverability.

This is all for the time being folks. He He

@Z4ZOHAIB Challo janab aap hi ko hamari bakwas achi lagi, thanx
 
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@Oscar with all due respect i read your article pretty good write up.

real good comparision between F20 tiger shark & Grippen too.

BUT

both the Grippen and F20 had something which JF-17 lacks. a top of the line AVIONICS.

the KLJ7 cannot be compared to the APG-67 of the F20s or the PS-05s of the grippen.


So yes JF-17 with the avionics of the F7PGs is injustice to the fighter.
 
@zebra7, F-22 has 2-D TVC.
Thanks for pointing out that but with 3D TVC does not give the advantage but what makes it unique is the flat design and the stealth measures to supress the heat signature. Any other point in my post which you find flawed?
 
F22 uses i8/i10 Intel CPU? Okay.

If Pakistani want to get the edge over F22 with JF 17 in terms of computer power then they should use AMD's APU's with have HSA and hUMA which allow for more direct coding and control of hardware and if Pakistani have world class geniues that are well skilled in Assembly programming which is low level programing language, close to the metal with hardware programming.

AMD will release their next generation APU in 2016 which is rumored to be 14nm so it will be on par to Intel in efficiency and performance at lower price point.

HSA and hUMA in AMD's latest APU's with Assembly will allow several times faster calculations than with current methods that have high code overhead.
 
Thanks for pointing out that but with 3D TVC does not give the advantage but what makes it unique is the flat design and the stealth measures to supress the heat signature. Any other point in my post which you find flawed?

What if the fighter X has very a potent IRST? Things may not be so invisible for it.
I don't think it uses intel processors. Its way more well equipped than that. Kindly look it up on Google as I have forgotten its onboard computing power ... it definitely rivals the Super Computers.

Also, the number of Raptors deployed (in my humble opinion) will be not be more than one third of its total fleet strength at any single theatre of conflict even if it is at all deployed. Because the US will never leave itself exposed at home and other potential conflict theaters.

The point is that it is not whether the F-22 will kick ***, it most certainly will. But will it be enough for winning a conflict, without paying a bloody cost in lives lost and equipment destroyed. Against a formidable adversary in its own backyard and having a huge numerical superiority and having a decent weapons technology level of its own, like say over the South China Sea theater of conflict?

There is a saying, "You cannot ignore the quality of quantity".
 
F22 uses i8/i10 Intel CPU? Okay.

If Pakistani want to get the edge over F22 with JF 17 in terms of computer power then they should use AMD's APU's with have HSA and hUMA which allow for more direct coding and control of hardware and if Pakistani have world class geniues that are well skilled in Assembly programming which is low level programing language, close to the metal with hardware programming.

AMD will release their next generation APU in 2016 which is rumored to be 14nm so it will be on par to Intel in efficiency and performance at lower price point.

HSA and hUMA in AMD's latest APU's with Assembly will allow several times faster calculations than with current methods that have high code overhead.
LOLZ very funny

The standard language of programming in the avionics and mission computer is ADA.
Every program is converted to the machine code when its compiled by the compiler. It would be difficult to program in pure assembly language and will be more time consuming.
 
LOLZ very funny

The standard language of programming in the avionics and mission computer is ADA.
Every program is converted to the machine code when its compiled by the compiler. It would be difficult to program in pure assembly language and will be more time consuming.

I agree with you, but with assembly you can directly control and manipulate the hardware and find or utilize shortcuts and increase precision while also decreasing time to get results with programming in that or that language then compiling into other language and machine code isn't as efficient in hardware utilization and compilers have limitations.

We humans love to use shortcuts or something that makes it easier to get results, but not as efficient, that is why in lets say video rendering and video games we use shaders instead fixed function GPU's which are twice as fact as shader based rendering is 90% of things and consume less power/electricity and less heat for same result with same number of transistors or less.
 

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