Are India's Railway engines indigenous?

[anant_s]

There is a difference between buying critical components and buying the entire product

Thats a very valid point.

but it is important to point out here that Indian Railways has always gone for import of technology rather than product import every time. Classical example of this is WDM 2 (diesel loco) purchased from ALCO back in 1960s. ALCO later helped in setting of Diesel Locomotive Works at Varanai, which is one of the largest manufacturer of Diesel Locomotive in the world now, exporting several of its products to various countries too.
Similarly in mid 90s, IR imported 3 phase locos WAP 5 and WAG 9 from Adtranz (Later Bombardier Transport) along with Tech Transfer (ToT). Later IR modified WAG 9 loco to develop WAP 7, which today is one of the best performing High power Passenger class loco.
Again in late 90s, DLW too signed an agreement for High Horsepower Diesel Locos with EMD USA along with ToT. Today DLW produce almost 200 of these locos and has successfully absorbed 3 phase AC AC transmission technology. We will get to see a more powerful 5,500 HP WDG 5 loco soon, developed by DLW in assistance with EMD.

All these examples show that our industry is fully capable of not only accepting a foreign technology and its mass quality production but also to improve upon it by incorporating experiences gained.

 

[TimeToScoot]

All these examples show that our industry is fully capable of not only accepting a foreign technology and its mass quality production but also to improve upon it by incorporating experiences gained.

You don't get my point, do you? You're happy that we walked two steps. I'm saying we've the capability to run. Why then are we walking when other Asian giants like S.Korea/China are blazing ahead? If you're trying to convince me that we're capable you're getting me wrong because I'm saying that we're far more capable than anyone else. Our political establishment is failing us miserably.

 

[HariPrasad]

WDG 50001 Bheem With 5500HP (Diesel)

 

[anant_s]

You don't get my point, do you? You're happy that we walked two steps. I'm saying we've the capability to run. Why then are we walking when other Asian giants like S.Korea/China are blazing ahead?

(I talk in context of high speed trains, not as a generalized statement)
Both South Korea and China didnot develop High speed trains ingeniously. South Korea's first high speed train KTX 1 was a derivative of highly reliable design of TGV from France and initial train sets too were supplied by Alsthom (link). They went on to develop there own models based on the experiences and local conditions.
China too had to import technology before taking up domestic design.
My whole point is that there is no point in re-inventing the wheel. most railway technologies today are evolutionary rather than revolutionary.

If you're trying to convince me that we're capable you're getting me wrong because I'm saying that we're far more capable than anyone else.

No i'm not.

Our political establishment is failing us miserably.

Can't agree more. as the cliche goes, most things are Despite the system...

 

[Friei Indien]

any words about this beauty, India's Darjeeling Himalayan Railways

 

[TimeToScoot]

(I talk in context of high speed trains, not as a generalized statement)
Both South Korea and China didnot develop High speed trains ingeniously. South Korea's first high speed train KTX 1 was a derivative of highly reliable design of TGV from France and initial train sets too were supplied by Alsthom (link). They went on to develop there own models based on the experiences and local conditions.
China too had to import technology before taking up domestic design.
My whole point is that there is no point in re-inventing the wheel. most railway technologies today are evolutionary rather than revolutionary.

I agree with everything that you've said. Let me add further. We don't need bullet trains in 2014. Our infrastructure, both city and railway, is dismal. We ought to first correct these which Modi has promised to tackle in his tenure. Once this is achieved we'll be ready to introduce bullet trains. 2025 would be an ideal target IMO. From 2014 to 2025 we have 11 long years. If the government is serious about taking the indigenous route we must invest a few hundred million dollars into various railway technologies so that we can roll out an indigenous system in 2025.

Can't agree more. as the cliche goes, most things are Despite the system...

India has all the human resources to conquer the world. We should aim for the peak and not settle for anything less. Jai Hind.

 

[anant_s]

any words about this beauty, India's Darjeeling Himalayan Railways

Darjeeling Hill Railway is a UNESCO World Heritage Site

& associated with one of my all time favorite songs

Gosh it is difficult not to fall in love them

 

[Donatello]

Yes they are indigenous.
@gslv mk3 will help you more here.


In 60' or 70's we license produced them but all the engines we use now are result of Indigenous technology.

For ex. see this monster......

Indian locomotive class WAP-4 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If it has Hitachi traction motors (the main component of any electric loco) how is this Indigenous?

Last i knew, Hitachi wasn't an Indian company.

Or else, it is again one of those buy some foreign components, reverse engineer, bla bla and label it as indigenous concept?

 

[anant_s]

WDG 50001 Bheem With 5500HP (Diesel)

Hari, that is WDG 4D (Dual cab version of WDG 4).

WDG 5 aka (not so Chota) BHEEM

 

[Donatello]

WDG 50001 Bheem With 5500HP (Diesel)

Again, components built by foreign entities, not really indigenous.

 

[nair]

Darjeeling Hill Railway is a UNESCO World Heritage Site

& associated with one of my all time favorite songs

View attachment 48569

Gosh it is difficult not to fall in love them

I thought that was shimla one...... ( I did travel in that train..... One experience which will remain with me forever )

 

[anant_s]

Again, components built by foreign entities, not really indigenous.

In this case components too are indigenous including Diesel Engine, Traction motors, IGBT Drives as are Shell and Bogies. EMD has assisted DLW in design of this behemoth. As of now all traction motors (including the 3 phase asynchronous ones) are domestically manufactured by BHEL as well as CLW.

I thought that was shimla one...... ( I did travel in that train..... One experience which will remain with me forever )

You are right, the honor is actually to 3 railway lines (all mountain) Shimla Kalka, New Jalpaiguri Darjeeling and Nilgiri (Ooty).

 

[TimeToScoot]

In this case components too are indigenous including Diesel Engine, Traction motors, IGBT Drives as are Shell and Bogies. EMD has assisted DLW in design of this behemoth. As of now all traction motors (including the 3 phase asynchronous ones) are domestically manufactured by BHEL as well as CLW.

Which company has indigenously produced a diesel engine and traction motors?

 

[HariPrasad]

Hari, that is WDG 4D (Dual cab version of WDG 4).

WDG 5 aka (not so Chota) BHEEM


View attachment 48570

I took the picture from Net. It is Bheem shows WDH 50001 with 5500 BHP.

 

[Chanakyaa]

If it has Hitachi traction motors (the main component of any electric loco) how is this Indigenous?
Last i knew, Hitachi wasn't an Indian company.
Or else, it is again one of those buy some foreign components, reverse engineer, bla bla and label it as indigenous concept?

Kyuki Bhaiya... USwa ke Stealth Planwa me "Main componentwa" " bhi USSR se aya tha....Ab Samje Budbak ??

Forget Hitachi, Enter BHEL.

Its a matter of Cost Cutting rather Technology. BHEL in India is one of the Largest Developers of Transformers and Alternators in the World which it Exports ( Much Much Much Larger than Traction Motors ). Globally to OVER 25 countries !! You can say its equal to ISRO in the Electrical Arena.

They even develop motors specifically for Nuclear Applications :

http://www.bhelbpl.co.in/bplweb_new/products/em/image007.jpg