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The Glory of the Mughal Empire

They did nothing in terms of development. They robbed the gold from Hindu temples, killed and raped women, attacked and plundered, destroyed our Buddhist monasteries and their lazy barbaric emperors sloshed away in big palaces. All they did was make tombs and forts all over just to celebrate their useless conquests.

But, we don't have any grudges against those wusses here at least. They never ruled us and whenever they came to our region, we sent them back in pieces.

You have no grudges but you keep talking trash about Mughals. That just shows how stable you are.

Why would anyone construct a statue of thieves, looters, invaders and uncivilized barbarians?

You forget that they ruled and lived in India. If they were looters, they would take wealth somewhere else. If they were thieves, they would steal away. If they were merely invaders, they would go back to where ever they came from. If they were uncivilized they would not leave a rich heritage that includes not just architectural legacy but also development of arts, crafts, and language.

Your sense of Ahom superiority is showing very clearly. But what about this:

"The Ahom (Pron: ˈɑ:hɒm or ɑ:həm, Assamese আহোম, Tai/Thai อาหม, people of Assam) are the descendants of the ethnic Tai peoplethat accompanied the Tai prince Sukaphaa into the Brahmaputra valley in 1228 and ruled the area for six centuries. Sukaphaa and his followers established the Ahom kingdom (1228–1826) and the Ahom dynasty ruled and expanded the kingdom until the British gained control of the region through the Treaty of Yandabo upon winning the First Anglo-Burmese War in 1826. "

Going by the above, you are descended from people who were (in your own words) 'thieves', 'looters', 'invaders', and 'uncivilized barbarians' who raped, killed, pillaged the local population when they invaded in 1228. I hope you like your own medicine.
 
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You have no grudges but you keep talking trash about Mughals. That just shows how stable you are.



You forget that they ruled and lived in India. If they were looters, they would take wealth somewhere else. If they were thieves, they would steal away. If they were merely invaders, they would go back to where ever they came from. If they were uncivilized they would not leave a rich heritage that includes not just architectural legacy but also development of arts, crafts, and language.

Your sense of Ahom superiority is showing very clearly. But what about this:

"The Ahom (Pron: ˈɑ:hɒm or ɑ:həm, Assamese আহোম, Tai/Thai อาหม, people of Assam) are the descendants of the ethnic Tai peoplethat accompanied the Tai prince Sukaphaa into the Brahmaputra valley in 1228 and ruled the area for six centuries. Sukaphaa and his followers established the Ahom kingdom (1228–1826) and the Ahom dynasty ruled and expanded the kingdom until the British gained control of the region through the Treaty of Yandabo upon winning the First Anglo-Burmese War in 1826. "

Going by the above, you are descended from people who were (in your own words) 'thieves', 'looters', 'invaders', and 'uncivilized barbarians' who raped, killed, pillaged the local population when they invaded in 1228. I hope you like your own medicine.

He wishes he is Ahom, I had this discussion with him before he is from Sikkim. A state that was so insignificant that the Mughals never even bothered to invade, yet in this very thread he is talking about how when they did they were, "cut to pieces".
:laughcry::omghaha::laugh:

I empathize with you, my friend, and thank you for sharing your input.

He hates the Mughals because they were Muslim, historically they never invaded his insignificant kingdom because there was nothing to gain so he has no reason to hate on them so going by his other posts on this forum his main issue with them is that they were Muslims, nothing more nothing less.
 
He wishes he is Ahom, I had this discussion with him before he is from Sikkim. A state that was so insignificant that the Mughals never even bothered to invade, yet in this very thread he is talking about how when they did they were, "cut to pieces".
:laughcry::omghaha::laugh:



He hates the Mughals because they were Muslim, historically they never invaded his insignificant kingdom because there was nothing to gain so he has no reason to hate on them so going by his other posts on this forum his main issue with them is that they were Muslims, nothing more nothing less.

Yeah I can gather that much. His obsession just shows through his charade of superiority. Pathetic mind-set. I can understand other Indians talking about greatness of their ancestors and such like based on their history and heritage, but this guy from an insignificant corner of India talks as though he is the present day emperor of India. If he were to go live in Mumbai, Shiv Sena types would straighten him out in no time..... Wait... may be he has been straightened out, but it did not work for him and now he has to take his anger out on someone? Hmmm..... figures.
 
Yeah I can gather that much. His obsession just shows through his charade of superiority. Pathetic mind-set. I can understand other Indians talking about greatness of their ancestors and such like based on their history and heritage, but this guy from an insignificant corner of India talks as though he is the present day emperor of India. If he were to go live in Mumbai, Shiv Sena types would straighten him out in no time..... Wait... may be he has been straightened out, but it did not work for him and now he has to take his anger out on someone? Hmmm..... figures.
senior mod caught in the act!!
 
P Mughals were practically secular. Though Aurangzeb gets a lot of flak, but he is on record as saying that religion has nothing to do with affairs of state (Ahkam-i-Alamgiri). Aurangzeb's son(s) had Rajput wives just like other Mughal princes before them. The bond between Rajputs and Mughals is what gave strength to Mughal empire. The 'hate' you've pointed out in one of your posts was not a practical matter. From Akbar to Shah Jehan there existed a sect of Hindu people who attributed divine qualities to emperors. Only Aurangzeb quit the practice of morning Darshan, which was a regular morning occurrence from Akbar to Jehangir to Shah Jahan..

I would disagree. Akbar, except for his very early years, was the only one who could be truly described as truly tolerant. Jahangir showed some strains of it at times but from him onwards, the Mughals were an intolerant bunch, Aurangzeb being the worst. Rajputs had a very uneasy relationship with Auragzeb, not liking him but generally not too keen on risking their kingdoms without more direct provocation. They did, however, encourage Aurangzeb's son Muhammad Akbar to revolt against his father precisely because they didn't care for Aurangzeb's intolerance by suggesting that he could be more like his great Mughal namesake rather than his bigoted father (that was defeated by an act of astonishing cunning by Aurangzeb where he arranged for a spy to be caught by the Rajputs carrying a "message" to Akbar congratulating him on tricking the Rajputs to come, "as arranged". The Rajput army disappeared by the next morning & that was that).

It is important to understand history in its context, there is no point in looking at people in another age through the prism of the values (secular, communal)of 20th-21st century. Everyone but Akbar was normal for the age, though those succeeding Akbar did have someone who showed a different path. Akbar was great because he was different. It is precisely because of that , he remains one of only two kings in Indian history to have the "great" attached to him, the other being Asoka who lived nearly 1800 years before him.
 
You know what is funny. There is not even one statue for the Mughal rulers in India.
But there are statues for Shivaji Maharaj, Lachit Borphukan, Bajirao and Krishnadevaray in India.

One more good thing, In most of the places(except around Delhi), where structures had names related to Mughals are also changed. Still few Towns have street names here and there their names, slowly changing them too.
 
when british gave us independence they also gave independence to 300 or so kings who were given 3 choices : join india, join pakistan or independence.
Smaller kings were forced to join either india or pakistan either by inducement (money) or threat. Most fell in line. (except kashmir and hyderabad the big kings).
India promised money (privy purse) to all kings.
Mughals were not among kings given that option by british as far as I know, so no money.
In any case govt of India went back on the promise and stopped paying any money after 70s.


Independence was not an option given to the 525 princely states , it was either india or Pakistan
 
@Nihonjin1051

the so-called glory of the mughals is in fact shameful. they wasted all the stolen/taxed wealth on fancy ornaments/tombs and luxuries whilst the common man got steadily poorer. its not that turks/mongols were bad just because they were foreign invaders. if they had done something worthwhile, at a time when europe and even later america were laying the intellectual foundations for their dominance of today such as laying bricks for oxford/cambridge/harvard universities, rather than some grotesque looking taj mahal, which personally i find ugly, in the honor of one deceased wife/concubine out of the several they had, then maybe the common south asian would respect them more.

but nope, you cannot expect more of people who gloated about pyramids of skulls built from innocent men, women and children trying to defend their own honour. their shallowness and barbarity sealed their fate. contrast this with sher shah suri, a true Son of Subcontinent, who cared for the land and its people. in his incredibly short rule of less than a decade, he solidified pan-subcontinent trade by establishing GT road, introduced the rupee for the first time and laying the foundations of relatively modern monetary system before most of the world, and reforms in administration/bureacracy which put emphasis on meritocracy rather than nepotism.

thats why i hate when mughals are considered as the symbol of muslim rule in south asia, as they were much overrated and useless. the much less recognized or appreciated sher shah suri and tipu sultan -offered legendary resistance to brits, whose later congreve rockets were based on tipu's which slaughtered them in battle- were far superior in my opinion (and incidentally they were not foreigners to subcontinent. hmm.. get the hint?) compare the knowledge being discovered by south asians in 6-7th century, such as modern numerical system, algebraic theories and works on medicine/anatomy which arabs and persians used to come to learn and further transmit to the west. was anything comparable achieved/discovered after dehli sultanate? did mughals kill that scientific inquisitiveness or nurture it?


According to that, among their homelands was the hapta həndu (Sapta Sindhu).

i think that is description of geographical neighboring regions, not part of their original dominion or native homeland, although occasionally there were short-lived satraps/tributaries of early persian empires set up in punjab. historically this has been the native land of two types of people, the warrior/priestly/trader/farming clans of vedas and shudras/dalits/dasyus etc. that were descendants of harrapans. (its possible that australoids/veddoids inhabited it tens of thousands of years earlier when it was significantly more arid, but nothing concrete). ethnic punjabis who trace their ancestry only to punjab are a mixture of these two broad groups of people. but veritably, neither of these groups are/were iranic ethnically, linguistically or culturally. the theory of some tribes being descendants of scythians much later on (closer to 1st century BC), lacks credibility owing to genetic studies and the proof of a sedentary, farming culture far pre-dating invasions by those nomadic tribes to which their ancestory is attributed (particularly in case of pastoral/farming communities like jatts and gujjars, for rajputs one has to rely more on the genetic argument).

NB: sapta sindhu is the original sanksrit term for the seven rivers (i believe beas and ghaggar-hakra are the missing ones omitted from 'panch-nad'(Prakrit) or 'punj-ab'(punjabi) ) from which the avestan/old persian 'hapta hindu' derives, in fact the term hind or hindu came from a similar morph in pronunciation of 's' in sind/sindhu to hind/hindhu by the persians.
 
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Each country is unique in its own destiny @hinduguy . For me, I have a considerable awe for many kingdoms, and empires that ruled most of South Asia. In particular is my fascination for the Mughal Empire, especially its contributions to arts, and science. It was during the reign of Jahangir that the concept of gestation period , which was noted in regards to elephants. For me, there is beauty , even if only as symbol of the state, of the monarchy. It provides a link to a nation's once Imperial and Glorious past.
What was the 'Glorious contribution to science'? :azn:
 
What was the 'Glorious contribution to science'? :azn:

Just to note one example of their contribution:

Fathullah Shirazi who worked for Akbar the Great in the Mughal Empire, developed a volley gun.
Considered one of the most remarkable feats in metallurgy, the seamless globe was invented in Kashmir by Ali Kashmiri ibn Luqman in 998 AH( 1589-90), and twenty other such globes were later produced in Lahore and Kashmir during Mughal time.It was believed by modern metallurgists to be technically impossible to produce metal gloves without any seams.These Mughal metallurgists pioneered the method of wax casting while producing these seamless globes.

Armillary_sphere_with_astronomical_clock.jpg










As for contribution in the field of botany, namely agricultural science, I reference the works of Dr. Kanuja Kumari, Ph.D (2012):

Agriculture science has existed in India since ancient times. India has been an agricultural country from time immemorial and has played a major role in determining the economic condition of any period. The Indian peasantry formed the backbone of the economy and the economic setup. Agriculture science and its development has been a continous process . The Rigveda says “ Get rid of gambling and then learn the art of Farming.” The techniques of cultivation was present in Rigvedic period and went on progressing in the early medieval and Mughal period. The cropping patterns, irrigation facilities, water management manures had developed in the Mughal period. The measurement system , the land revenue system had reached to another level during the reign of Akbar. He introduced the Ain- i- Dahsala system to make the land revenue system more organised and to enhance the tax collection of the empire. The agriculture science determined the socio- economic condition of the farmers.


Reference:
Kumari, Kanuja (2012). Agricultural Period during the Mughal Period and its Socio-Economic Impact. International Journal of Humanities and Applied Sciences. Retrieved from:
http://psrcentre.org/images/extraimages/IJHAS013025.pdf
 
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