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We are discussing about South China Sea matter not about Ethnicity history or old man stories from you, **** off

You too, you are derailing this topics. Stops your yaps about Vietnam ethnicity or so on

I look at your past posts on this thread. It is pretty much toilet materials. Hmm the best point from you probably was "Indonesians should shut the **** up about this topics." But that you, I wouldn't go that route and I do think Indonesian should play a greater role in the area. But do steer the topic because indeed, we were off topic. Considering probably out of 469 pages, probably 300 pages are trash materials just back and forth comparing e-penis. Actually never mind, I am done with this forum (happy now??). I am going back to debate people on youtube. Also, I hope madokafc's period is not acting up or something.

Vietnamese and Chinese people stop with ya's pointless flame war. The anti China riot actually happened at my childhood home (Binh Duong). I know the awful working conditions of the vietnamese workers in those foreign factories very well whether it is a Chinese, Taiwanese, and or South Korean. I could see why it happen the way it happened and why the workers don't discriminate who they were targeting. It is a truly regrettable situation. Though, I am kinda happy if it meant Vietnam will do less business with China in the future. Hopefully, with more discussion, there will be more empathy. As for madokafc, go suck a big fucking dick or something.

/done....
 
I look at your past posts on this thread. It is pretty much toilet materials. Hmm the best point from you probably was "Indonesians should shut the **** up about this topics." But that you, I wouldn't go that route and I do think Indonesian should play a greater role in the area. But do steer the topic because indeed, we were off topic. Considering probably out of 469 pages, probably 300 pages are trash materials just back and forth comparing e-penis. Actually never mind, I am done with this forum (happy now??). I am going back to debate people on youtube. Also, I hope madokafc's period is not acting up or something.

Vietnamese and Chinese people stop with ya's pointless flame war. The anti China riot actually happened at my childhood home (Binh Duong). I know the awful working conditions of the vietnamese workers in those foreign factories very well whether it is a Chinese, Taiwanese, and or South Korean. I could see why it happen the way it happened and why the workers don't discriminate who they were targeting. It is a truly regrettable situation. Though, I am kinda happy if it meant Vietnam will do less business with China in the future. Hopefully, with more discussion, there will be more empathy. As for madokafc, go suck a big fucking dick or something.

/done....

hey are you homo who got your period times? i don't know Vietnam got a pussy guy like you
 
Same shit as manifest destiny. Even if I give you China is Qin and Han. The current China encompassed still many ethnic kingdoms since the Han dynasty. China currently probably 2 to 3 times Han dynasty. There are separatist movements since the Han dynasty and there are still now.
And where is Qin,Zhao,Chu etc today?

Again how can we apply an modern day ethnic label on extinct people?

Reminds me of Vietnamese claiming Baiyue as solely Vietnamese.

There aren't any separatist movements save for some Uighurs and Tibetans which are hardly representative of the majority Han or other large minorities ie Manchu,Hui,Miao,Zhuang etc.

Don't know what your point is from the overall of this thread nor how is it addressing my point of the post. Nanyue may not be vietnamese but is vietnamese as how the Chinese claimed the Qing dynasty is Chinese.
You analogy for Nanyue and Qing doesn't fit.

1.Both Nanyue and Qing used the same title ie Huangdi which is a Chinese concept.
2.Both Nanyue and Qing established its capital in modern day China.
3.Both Nanyue and Qing adopted Chinese scripts,bureaucracy,culture.
4.Qing followed the standard procedure of Chinese dynasties ie claiming the mandate of heaven and making sacrifices to Tian.
5.Zhao Tuo did not claim ancestry or legitimacy from Au Lac.
6.Both Nanyue and Qing had a large Sinitic speaking population.
7.Majority of the population of Nanyue was Tai Kadai speakers not Vietnamese.

Or how they try to rewrite history and claim Genghis Khan is Chinese.
This isn't taught in either the PRC or ROC.

I don't need to refer back to your thread. Western historians had said vietnamese historians do not particularly have a truth perspective but rather a nationalistic perspective. They try too hard to tie ancient history to that of vietnamese history. Dong Son culture may not even belong to the Kinh Vietnamese. Likewise, whatever ancient craps that are found in China may not necessarily stem from the ancient Han Chinese. I don't think there is a strong enough link to said all those countries back during Spring Autumn are all HAN CHINESE. My point still stand. China was a tiny country. Its southern border changed all the time. Taiwan wasn't even populated by Han Chinese at one point. How can it claimed that it had navigate South China Sea much more so than the ancient Austronesian peoples.
Dong Son was distinctly Mongoloid while the previous inhabitants of Vietnam were Australoid showing that their ancestors came from Southern China,this doesn't mean that Vietnamese have any rights towards modern day China though.

I don't put ethnic labels on neolithic cultures either,they were most likely ancestral to many modern day ethnicities.

There is no such thing as ancient Han Chinese rather the ancients probably though themselves as Hua/Xia/x country.

The vast majority of states were founded by Sinitic or Sinicized people the exception are small states such as Zhongsan or Lai.

I am a seeker of truth. What I can say is that the Viet did well to kept themselves separate from the Chinese and not just one of the 55 minorities in China. The trend of nationalism and tying identity to history past whether if there is kennel of truth or not just explain out identity. It is no more absurd than many things the chinese believe in ages past.

But what is your motive?? Trying to discredit every other points I have by bringing this up? Or are you trying to get me to admit what a shameful fake *** our history is? Those shit doesn't matter. Tran Hung Dao, Quang Trung, Ngo Quyen, Trung sisters, lady Trieu, Le Loi. As long as those are real it doesn't matter. I hope you are not baiting me.
This eternal struggle rhetoric by Vietnamese is nothing more than a farce,linguistic studies have shown that the ancient/medieval Vietnamese(or the elite) spoke a variant of Ancient Southwestern Chinese,Vietnamese rebelled when there were unfair rulers but under men such as Shi Xie the region was quiet. The dynasties of Ly,Tran and Ho all had "Chinese" ancestors showing that ethnic Han were able to assimilate.

Ethnicities are all social constructs there maybe a blood component depending on who you ask.

I'm sick and tired of Vietnamese members claiming Southern China as their lost homeland and using a myth that originated from fairy tales in an attempt to prove it. ie Xich Quy/Van Lang

Vietnamese historical figures are real whether they identify with modern day Kinh Vietnamese is different.

But seemed you are someone I could learn from because you have at least proven yourself to me that you know what you are talking about. So I will ask the expert, how many kingdoms, dynasty, nations, and states that aren't started by Han Chinese that is right now in the current space that is People's Republic of China? I don't meant anything by this. It actually an intriguing thought for me and it just started since I began the conversation on this forum. To be honest, I was one of those ignorant person who don't think about these things prior to this.

And what is Han Chinese? When it came to existence? And what is Vietnamese according to your truth?

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Edit: I am debating if I am should entertain you further. Because it kinda derailing the topic of this thread, also if you don't know, I am more interested in current events. I only delve into this because a lot of people on the net seemed to think China had always been a benevolent, peaceful country that like never never into expansionism.
Whether or not a ethnic Han or minority sits on the dragon throne doesn't matter to me,they viewed themselves of ruler of Tianxia and Zhongguo.

Han ethnoym originated during the Northern Wei as an ethnic slur or a term for the Sinitic speakers.

The first time Han included Southern Han was during the Ming.
 
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PEOPLE I am new, I don't know how to send private messages. Anyhow, Grand Historian should send me a private message or something, I want your opinions on a few things just for the sake of my own education.

================================================
terranMarine- I believe this is on topic since Taiwan does matter to South China Sea. You mentioned that one of China's current goal is to get Taiwan back. How does China will go about this? Not straight up invasion right?? Is it planning to use some sort of democratic process or some sort of populace movement?? And how far do you think that is the reality that Taiwan will be back in China's hand. Look like a lot of Westerners are regretting giving HongKong back.

I believe you have to make at least 10.000 posts before you can send private message.

How China planning to get TW back? Are you serious when you suggests democratic process or movements? You clearly don't understand China's resolve on getting the island back. The answer is very simple, whatever it takes. There can be no doubt we will switch to invasion if all peaceful methods are fruitless. We have over 1000 missiles pointing at the island, a rapid Naval buildup since Clinton sent an Aircraft Carrier to warn China during the last Taiwan Strait crisis when TW was trying to get independent. In the end TW didn't accomplish anything and triggered China to ramp up PLAN's development. Until then Taiwanese still have time to re-think of a peaceful unification.

And no, Westerners cannot regret giving HK back. The British had a 99 year lease of HK since 1898. England had no choice but to return it back to China in 97. In the 80s Thatcher wanted to extend leasing HK, Deng taught her a lesson and the rest is history.
 
And where is Qin,Zhao,Chu etc today?

Again how can we apply an modern day ethnic label on extinct people?

Reminds me of Vietnamese claiming Baiyue as solely Vietnamese.

There aren't any separatist movements save for some Uighurs and Tibetans which are hardly representative of the majority Han or other large minorities ie Manchu,Hui,Miao,Zhuang etc.


You analogy for Nanyue and Qing doesn't fit.

1.Both Nanyue and Qing used the same title ie Huangdi which is a Chinese concept.
2.Both Nanyue and Qing established its capital in modern day China.
3.Both Nanyue and Qing adopted Chinese scripts,bureaucracy,culture.
4.Qing followed the standard procedure of Chinese dynasties ie claiming the mandate of heaven and making sacrifices to Tian.
5.Zhao Tuo did not claim ancestry or legitimacy from Au Lac.
6.Both Nanyue and Qing had a large Sinitic speaking population.
7.Majority of the population of Nanyue was Tai Kadai speakers not Vietnamese.


This isn't taught in either the PRC or ROC.


Dong Son was distinctly Mongoloid while the previous inhabitants of Vietnam were Australoid showing that their ancestors came from Southern China,this doesn't mean that Vietnamese have any rights towards modern day China though.

I don't put ethnic labels on neolithic cultures either,they were most likely ancestral to many modern day ethnicities.

There is no such thing as ancient Han Chinese rather the ancients probably though themselves as Hua/Xia/x country.

The vast majority of states were founded by Sinitic or Sinicized people the exception are small states such as Zhongsan or Lai.


This eternal struggle rhetoric by Vietnamese is nothing more than a farce,linguistic studies have shown that the ancient/medieval Vietnamese(or the elite) spoke a variant of Ancient Southwestern Chinese,Vietnamese rebelled when there were unfair rulers but under men such as Shi Xie the region was quiet. The dynasties of Ly,Tran and Ho all had "Chinese" ancestors showing that ethnic Han were able to assimilate.

Ethnicities are all social constructs there maybe a blood component depending on who you ask.

I'm sick and tired of Vietnamese members claiming Southern China as their lost homeland and using a myth that originated from fairy tales in an attempt to prove it. ie Xich Quy/Van Lang

Vietnamese historical figures are real whether they identify with modern day Kinh Vietnamese is different.


Whether or not a ethnic Han or minority sits on the dragon throne doesn't matter to me,they viewed themselves of ruler of Tianxia and Zhongguo.

Han ethnoym originated during the Northern Wei as an ethnic slur or a term for the Sinitic speakers.

The first time Han included Southern Han was during the Ming.

You repeat again and again such propaganda, it made to brainwash chinese people..

Qin and Han Dynasty of Han people from North China, they conquered South China, Southern Chinese, Yue people are sinized. It is history of China.

Why Wu Yue, Min Yue, Nan Yue, Ye Lang, Dian Guo, Nan Chao etc ... is disappeared ?

Vietnam regained independence from China. It is history of Vietnam.
 
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Chinese and Vietnamese members here does not accepts opinions of each others so all of you will argue until The Sun becomes a blackhole without a consent. Do not use historical evidences here, they have not any effect!:haha:

"Do more,talk less。" - @cirr
 
You repeat again and again such propaganda, it made to brainwash chinese people..

Qin and Han Dynasty of Han people from North China, they conquered South China, Southern Chinese, Yue people are sinized. It is history of China.

Why Wu Yue, Min Yue, Nan Yue, Ye Lang, Dian Guo, Nan Chao etc ... is disappeared ?

Vietnam regained independence from China. It is history of Vietnam.
Southern Han are a mix of intruding Northern Han males and native ethnicties neither of which have anything to do with Kinh Vietnamese.

All you can do is spew the same lies over and over again I wonder if you would actually contribute to this forum rather than troll.
 
U9373P1T1D30414518F21DT20140624180812.jpg


Vertical version of China map, a clear version.
 
View attachment 36236

Vertical version of China map, a clear version.

China territory is ended at Hainan Island, :sarcastic:

Spratly-map-1904.4.jpg


Southern Han are a mix of intruding Northern Han males and native ethnicties neither of which have anything to do with Kinh Vietnamese.

All you can do is spew the same lies over and over again I wonder if you would actually contribute to this forum rather than troll.

Hoklo people is Min Yue, no Han.
Han people speak Mandarine, they do not understand hokkien language.
 
don't cry bro. It is truth of China population based on history. Chinese classification in to Southern Han and Northern Han is made by Chinese and scholars in the world.
I'm not going to repeat the same facts I've posted numerous times,you are clearly unable to digest genetic,linguistical,textual and archaeological evidence.

I suppose Southern Vietnamese are fake Vietnamese because they live in the lands of Chams and Khmers:crazy:
 
I'm not going to repeat the same facts I've posted numerous times,you are clearly unable to digest genetic,linguistical,textual and archaeological evidence.

I suppose Southern Vietnamese are fake Vietnamese because they live in the lands of Chams and Khmers:crazy:

That is why it's useless having a discussion or providing proof to these wackos. Regardless maps/history/articles only their versions are right and the stuff we post are fake. In the meantime our rigs keep on coming :cheers:
 
I'm not going to repeat the same facts I've posted numerous times,you are clearly unable to digest genetic,linguistical,textual and archaeological evidence.

I suppose Southern Vietnamese are fake Vietnamese because they live in the lands of Chams and Khmers:crazy:

we are Southern Vietnamese, were Yuechang people in native. we speak same language with northern Vietnamese. Its different in China

Champa people is Malayo. They were new comers in coast of Vietnam. Indo-Chine peninsula, there is native land of Mon/Khmer/Muong/Khmu/Viet people who speak Mon/Khmer languages..

Chinese and Vietnamese members here does not accepts opinions of each others so all of you will argue until The Sun becomes a blackhole without a consent. Do not use historical evidences here, they have not any effect!:haha:

"Do more,talk less。" - @cirr

but don't make a idiot things.
 
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