China nears approval of $16 billion domestic jet-engine plan: Xinhua

[UKBengali]

JF-17/FC-1 was not supposed to replace Su-27/30, we could easily purchase this instead of the "stop gap" obsolete F7-BG. We could look at J10b as a replacement for Su-27/30.

WS-13 is ready as far as I can tell from this wiki entry:
Guizhou WS-13 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

China began development of the Taishan in 2000 to replace the Klimov RD-93 turbofan, which had been selected in the 1990s to power the JF-17 light-weight fighter. It is designed to have a life span of 2,200 hours and an improved version, providing around 100 kN (22,450 lb) of thrust with afterburner, is under development.[1]
The WS-13 Taishan was certified in 2007 and serial production began in 2009.[citation needed] The 18 March 2010 edition of the HKB report stated that a FC-1 equipped with the WS-13 completed its first successful runway taxi test.[2]
Officials at the Farnborough International Airshow in August 2010 stated that a JF-17 development aircraft is flying with a Chinese engine, which is most likely to be the WS-13.[3]

WS-13 won't be ready for around a couple of years from what can be gathered from internet sources.

The F-7BGI is being delivered now and it at least gives the BD air-force a BVR capable fighter to work with. It only cost 150 million dollars for 16 planes anyway.

I have always been keen for BD to get the J-10B as it looks like a fighter that closely match Eurofighter /Rafale for half the unit cost. It should be ready for delivery by next year once the WS-10B engine is ready. Pakistan will get a variant of it next year but whether China will export to BD at this time is another matter.

 

[kalu_miah]

WS-13 won't be ready for around a couple of years from what can be gathered from internet sources.

The F-7BGI is being delivered now and it at least gives the BD air-force a BVR capable fighter to work with. It only cost 150 million dollars for 16 planes anyway.

I have always been keen for BD to get the J-10B as it looks like a fighter that closely match Eurofighter /Rafale for half the unit cost. It should be ready for delivery by next year once the WS-10B engine is ready. Pakistan will get a variant of it next year but whether China will export to BD at this time is another matter.

So F7-BGI are useful and cheap, that is good to know. Why not some JF-17 when WS-13 is ready? They are at least 4th gen. Are PAF JF-17's using Russian engines then?

Do you think J-10B is a good replacement for Su-27/30 for us?

Why would China not sell it (J-10B) to us? Pakistan already placed order for 36.

It looks like PAF is going big time with JF-17 (50 ordered + 200 expected) and J10B (36 ordered + 150 expected). We may not need as many, but we could build a great BAF with these two fighter planes.

 

[UKBengali]

So F7-BGI are useful and cheap, that is good to know. Why not some JF-17 when WS-13 is ready? They are at least 4th gen. Are PAF JF-17's using Russian engines then?

Do you think J-10B is a good replacement for Su-27/30 for us?

Why would China not sell it (J-10B) to us? Pakistan already placed order for 36.

It looks like PAF is going big time with JF-17 (50 ordered + 200 expected) and J10B (36 ordered + 150 expected). We may not need as many, but we could build a great BAF with these two fighter planes.

BAF needed some more fighters now and JF-17 looks like it could not be delivered till 2015 due to the WS-13 engine. Anyway BAF has experience on the J-7 and so the infrastructure and training is already there. With the JF-17 all this would have to be set up from scratch and that would be costly.

I like to think that the J-10B is actually a fighter than would superbly complement the Su-27/30 series rather than be an alternative to them. For all the superlatives that you can say about the J-10B, it lacks both range and heavy ordnance carrying capacity. The SU-30 fighter will allow the BAF to operate a fighter than could be used to defend BD airspace(there is a question mark against India with this plane), allow it to provide air cover over large sections of the Bay of Bengal to the BD Navy and strike deep into enemy targets.

Pakistan is China's closest ally and that is why they are getting the J-10. BD may not get it as China could not 100% rely on BD not to pass on vital information to the Indians about it's performance and technical parameters.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

So F7-BGI are useful and cheap, that is good to know. Why not some JF-17 when WS-13 is ready? They are at least 4th gen. Are PAF JF-17's using Russian engines then?

Do you think J-10B is a good replacement for Su-27/30 for us?

Why would China not sell it (J-10B) to us? Pakistan already placed order for 36.

It looks like PAF is going big time with JF-17 (50 ordered + 200 expected) and J10B (36 ordered + 150 expected). We may not need as many, but we could build a great BAF with these two fighter planes.

J-10B has significant Pakistani involvement... also its tailor made for Pakistan and probably wouldnt be sold to other nations.... J-10A is another story though,.... As for JF-17... 150 have been ordered and 250 have been planed...

 

[kalu_miah]

BAF needed some more fighters now and JF-17 looks like it could not be delivered till 2015 due to the WS-13 engine. Anyway BAF has experience on the J-7 and so the infrastructure and training is already there. With the JF-17 all this would have to be set up from scratch and that would be costly.

I like to think that the J-10B is actually a fighter than would superbly complement the Su-27/30 series rather than be an alternative to them. For all the superlatives that you can say about the J-10B, it lacks both range and heavy ordnance carrying capacity. The SU-30 fighter will allow the BAF to operate a fighter than could be used to defend BD airspace(there is a question mark against India with this plane), allow it to provide air cover over large sections of the Bay of Bengal to the BD Navy and strike deep into enemy targets.

Pakistan is China's closest ally and that is why they are getting the J-10. BD may not get it as China could not 100% rely on BD not to pass on vital information to the Indians about it's performance and technical parameters.

So you agree that we should get JF-17 as soon as it is available to us. You did not answer the question if PAF got delivery of their JF-17 with Russian engines?

As for J-10B/FC-20 or J-10A/ F-10A, if we are not a close ally to China now, it is time that we think about becoming one. India has been conducting covert war meddling in our domestic politics, it is only a matter of time Bangladeshi people will wake up, put a stop to it and go for greater alliance with China at the expense of India.

Unless Burma goes for Su-27/30 and sticks with Mig-29's, I think upgraded SMT's will suffice our need for twin engine planes with heavier pay load. We do not need to waste money to compete with India like PAF. But if Burma has any plans for Su-27/30, then we need to match their air force.

 

[UKBengali]

So you agree that we should get JF-17 as soon as it is available to us. You did not answer the question if PAF got delivery of their JF-17 with Russian engines?

As for J-10B/FC-20 or J-10A/ F-10A, if we are not a close ally to China now, it is time that we think about becoming one. India has been conducting covert war meddling in our domestic politics, it is only a matter of time Bangladeshi people will wake up, put a stop to it and go for greater alliance with China at the expense of India.

Unless Burma goes for Su-27/30 and sticks with Mig-29's, I think upgraded SMT's will suffice our need for twin engine planes with heavier pay load. We do not need to waste money to compete with India like PAF. But if Burma has any plans for Su-27/30, then we need to match their air force.

PAF JF-17 are being delivered with Russian engines.

While I used to think that the Jf-17 was a good idea for the BD, now I am not so sure as it is really a cheaper and less capable fighter than the J-10. The J-10 can do everything that the JF-17 does but better.

Upgraded Mig-29s will be ok but they won't deliver the full range of capabilities that the Su-27-30 series fighter will. The Sukhoi's can fly further and with more ordnance than the Mig-29. They will cost more but I think the extra cost is worth it and BD can afford a couple of squadrons if it wanted to purchase as the payments could be spread over several years anyway.

 

[kalu_miah]

PAF JF-17 are being delivered with Russian engines.

While I used to think that the Jf-17 was a good idea for the BD, now I am not so sure as it is really a cheaper and less capable fighter than the J-10. The J-10 can do everything that the JF-17 does but better.

Upgraded Mig-29s will be ok but they won't deliver the full range of capabilities that the Su-27-30 series fighter will. The Sukhoi's can fly further and with more ordnance than the Mig-29. They will cost more but I think the extra cost is worth it and BD can afford a couple of squadrons if it wanted to purchase as the payments could be spread over several years anyway.

So you support:

J10x as opposed to JF-17
Su-27/30 as opposed to Mig29SMT

That does not sound like a bad plan. It is always better to get a slightly better plane, even if it costs a little more.

 

[UKBengali]

So you support:

J10x as opposed to JF-17
Su-27/30 as opposed to Mig29SMT

That does not sound like a bad plan. It is always better to get a slightly better plane, even if it costs a little more.

Yes. They are the best choices for now.

In the next decade BAF could start looking at 5th generation fighters like the Chinese J-31 which will be available for export by then.

 

[shuttler]

1. not immediately
2. yes, but not immediately
3. 20 years at least
4. we always sell our weapons at more than reasonable prices with great qualities
Check out our J7 exported to many countries and compare that with the flight history of your neighours' fleet.
We have just delivered some upgraded J-7s to Bangladesh.
5. yes. We are a weapon trader. J10x will be exported but not anytime soon.

Thank you for your interest!

Surely you don't actually mean 20 years before J-11X fighters are exported?

Not sure who would be interested in 4th generation fighters in the 2030s.

Really. Enlighten me of what I seem not be aware of?

I though you are better than your neighbour.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/153606-bangladesh-eyes-china-arms.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/142561-bangladesh-china-ordered-16-f-7bgi-light-fighter-51.html

 

[Banglar Lathial]

I though you are better than your neighbour.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/153606-bangladesh-eyes-china-arms.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/142561-bangladesh-china-ordered-16-f-7bgi-light-fighter-51.html

Don't mind them. Many of these members who are expatriates in the Western world are always bending over to please their Western masters, so as not to 'offend' them.

I think there are rumours that J-10B is in mass production stage, would not China be willing to sell them to Bangladesh in the near future (next 2 to 3 years) if Bangladesh expresses interest? I think if BAL (present) gov't of BD is removed by next year at most, then Bangladesh can expand its relations with China a great deal.

By that time, all independent thinkers and analysts also expect China to further its reach in all parts of the world, and also to reduce whatever minimal difference in 'aggregate power' there exists between USA and China. That will be a great day for the bulk of the world's population which is non-Western.

 

[Banglar Lathial]

1. They can (and it's perfectly legal since the J-11B and J-16 incorporates all Chinese systems and workings), but they risk
running into diplomatic quarrels with Russia (since the latter claim that the airframe design was copied)
2. The engines certainly are. The aircraft will be once the Chinese starts mass producing J-16 and J-15.
3. Depends on which engine.
4. Depends on the planes asked.
5. Definitely, once mass production of J-10B starts.

I hope Bangladesh orders single engine J-10B/J-10BS and twin-engined J-11B/J-11BS soon enough. If Russia creates diplomatic row with China over it (only a few squadron of J-11B should not create any uproar I think), then maybe one squadron of Su-35 can be looked into. I think Uganda has purchased some 6 Su-30MK2, and their economy is generally in worse shape than BD. Definitely, Bangladesh can procure 16 Su-35 from Russia, all these alleged "Indian pressure" on Russia is hoax.

Russia mostly understands one thing - money (and more money). They don't care two hoots about the world's largest dump with the world's largest number of illiterate people.

In either case, 4 squadrons of J-10B + 2 squdrons of J-11B should be procured by 2020 or thereabout. If Russia causes diplomatic row, then 4 squadrons of J-10B+1 squadron of Su-35+1 squadron of J-16 should be the inventory of choice. A couple of AEW&C, refuellers and tankers should also be procured by then.

Policies for the development of economy, military and diplomacy must go 'hand in hand' for BD in the coming years.

 

[shuttler]

Don't mind them. Many of these members who are expatriates in the Western world are always bending over to please their Western masters, so as not to 'offend' them.

Well thankful that Bangladesh and Pakistan have a lot of bright people.

I think there are rumours that J-10B is in mass production stage, would not China be willing to sell them to Bangladesh in the near future (next 2 to 3 years) if Bangladesh expresses interest? I think if BAL (present) gov't of BD is removed by next year at most, then Bangladesh can expand its relations with China a great deal.

Thank you for your trust in us. Reviewing the past practices for export of airplanes, I think "next 2 to 3 " years will be too ambitious. But do try to negotiate with the Chiefs in PLA. Thanks.

By that time, all independent thinkers and analysts also expect China to further its reach in all parts of the world, and also to reduce whatever minimal difference in 'aggregate power' there exists between USA and China. That will be a great day for the bulk of the world's population which is non-Western.

Thank you again.
I think China knows very well of how we have progressed from big struggles. We are seeing many places in the world are going through the phases like what we have experienced. And yes, a balanced world is a better world!

 

[UKBengali]

I hope Bangladesh orders single engine J-10B/J-10BS and twin-engined J-11B/J-11BS soon enough. If Russia creates diplomatic row with China over it (only a few squadron of J-11B should not create any uproar I think), then maybe one squadron of Su-35 can be looked into. I think Uganda has purchased some 6 Su-30MK2, and their economy is generally in worse shape than BD. Definitely, Bangladesh can procure 16 Su-35 from Russia, all these alleged "Indian pressure" on Russia is hoax.

Russia mostly understands one thing - money (and more money). They don't care two hoots about the world's largest dump with the world's largest number of illiterate people.

In either case, 4 squadrons of J-10B + 2 squdrons of J-11B should be procured by 2020 or thereabout. If Russia causes diplomatic row, then 4 squadrons of J-10B+1 squadron of Su-35+1 squadron of J-16 should be the inventory of choice. A couple of AEW&C, refuellers and tankers should also be procured by then.

Policies for the development of economy, military and diplomacy must go 'hand in hand' for BD in the coming years.

This is the first time that I have been accused of wanting to please my Western Masters! Many accuse me of being obsessively pro-Chinese but that is another discussion!

But to get to your wish about the mix and number of fighters that BD should purchase, this is simply not possible with only 1.5% of GDP being devoted to defence, even with the growth rate of the economy running at nearly 7% a year currently.

A force of 48 J10-B, 12 J-11B, 12 SU-35, AWACS and tankers is something that even India could not easily ignore. However this will come at a cost of around 5 billion dollars ,which will be 1 billion dollars a year if paid over 5 years. The 12 Su-35s by themselves will come to 1 billion dollars at least. Unless very generous financing terms are giving, say pay over 10 years with little or no interest paid, then it is not possible to afford so many planes by 2020.

Personally, I would prefer BD to start raising the percentage that it spends on defence gradually over the next 10-15 years to around 2.5% of GDP which will allow purchases of this nature but this does not look like it will start happening soon.

 

[Banglar Lathial]

This is the first time that I have been accused of wanting to please my Western Masters! Many accuse me of being obsessively pro-Chinese but that is another discussion!

But to get to your wish about the mix and number of fighters that BD should purchase, this is simply not possible with only 1.5% of GDP being devoted to defence, even with the growth rate of the economy running at nearly 7% a year currently.

A force of 48 J10-B, 12 J-11B, 12 SU-35, AWACS and tankers is something that even India could not easily ignore. However this will come at a cost of around 5 billion dollars ,which will be 1 billion dollars a year if paid over 5 years. The 12 Su-35s by themselves will come to 1 billion dollars at least. Unless very generous financing terms are giving, say pay over 10 years with little or no interest paid, then it is not possible to afford so many planes by 2020.

Personally, I would prefer BD to start raising the percentage that it spends on defence gradually over the next 10-15 years to around 2.5% of GDP which will allow purchases of this nature but this does not look like it will start happening soon.

Never mind, you can please who ever you like.

On topic, yes, I have been an advocate of raising defence spending. It's not something BD can scrimp on. A few paltry billions not spent will probably end up costing tens or even hundred times more in many tangible and intangible losses.

Besides, which of our potential adversaries spend less than us in aggregate, per capita and % of GDP terms? (Answer: None). It was a rhetorical question, just so that you know. My point is, I reemphasize, Bangladesh needs to up its defence expenditure drastically. No room for indecisiveness here.

 

[UKBengali]

Besides, which of our potential adversaries spend less than us in aggregate, per capita and % of GDP terms? (Answer: None). It was a rhetorical question, just so that you know. My point is, I reemphasize, Bangladesh needs to up its defence expenditure drastically. No room for indecisiveness here.

It was right that BD only spent around 1.5% a year of GDP on defence over the last few decades as poverty was at massive levels. Now that poverty is much lower, BD can afford to raise this percentage to 2.5-3% a year over the medium term without harming either poverty reduction or the economy.