Induction of Balochistanis in Pak Army - All News

[qsaark]

Well you again are back at the start point.

Started what? Ethnic cleansing?

Not the ethnic cleansing, but the arrival of Afghan Refugees and the change in the demography.

So are most in Balochistan.

Tomorrow i may find you saying that as many Sindhis have shifted to Punjab so there is a threat for the Punjabi residents!

There will never be a threat to Punjab residents until and unless the Sindhis start breeding like rabbits.

Moreover, i think you want to suggest that There should be nobody other than sindhis in Sindh, nobody other than the Punjabis in Punjab, and so forth!

One ethnic group must not be allowed to change the demography.

Uzbaks and Tajiks in balochistan !!! wow!

So you don’t know about that?

Ahan!

i wonder why dont they ban entry to the foreigners and aliens.

BTW, i happened to interview a Native American when i was in the States, i'll quote the interview if you require it, i never find any 'crib' in that interview!

They have already limited the entry of the aliens. Regarding your interview with a Native American, there are always Mir Jaffars and Mir Sadiqs in every nation so I am not surprised. If I agree with your logic, than what is all the fuss about Palestinian land occupied by the Jews?

So why it doesnt bother you?

Karachi is liable to be taken over by the 'immigrnts' but it hurts when they similar things happen to Balochistan?

A wrong thing is wrong both in Sindh as well as in Balochistan. Had Sindhis of 1940s knew that they were going to become a minority in their own lands, they would have never allowed immigrants to settle in Karachi.

No doubt the Balochs are still poor as they dont want to react and interact with outsiders. Keeping within themselves and not allowing the influx of fresh blood no doubt stagnate the genes.

They have no problem with interacting with the settlers; they just don’t want these settlers to steal their belongings. They have a very good gene pool, and there is no need to mix it with other gene pool. I am surprise who lowly you think of these people.

Ever wonder Karachi, Lahore, Peshawar etc etc are more advanced? (except for their being the provincial capitals) Quetta again can be included in the list because it some how or the other have allowed the access to the outside world.

I am not against it.

Yes it does.
Try to visit those areas, they have totally changed because of these institution.

By change i mean that women still do 'parda', men still keep beards, they still are aggressive and emotional and they still eat lots of 'niswar', so no change as regards to traditions and customs, which should worry you (as you are worried about the demographic changes in Balichistan) but they are more aware of many many things as compared to the areas which are 'away' from army's and airforce's influence!

Get some time and try to compare the 'growth' in the initial stages in those areas and the development there today. Also compare this 'rate' to those areas that remained void of the military access.

All this development and enlightenment can be achieved without the presence of Army. In other more civilized and much more developed countries (Pakistan may be unique or perhaps Burma), Army is not sent for these jobs.

What exactly is the problem in establishing more cantonments?

Other than it would restrict access to sardars and smugglers and it will pose a constant check on drug lords and car snatchers?

I never knew that Army is so eager to take up the role of Police and paramilitary. This is for the first time I have heard that Army is needed to control smuggling and Sardars. The highest concentration of Army is in Punjab, yet billions of rupees worth of smuggling takes place across the Indian and Pakistani Punjab border. If Army in such numbers can’t control that smuggling, how on earth is Army is hoping to control it in a province like Balochistan?

i wonder why people never resisted establishment of cantts in Sindh and Punjab, they also come from the same country.

Because they are needed in Punjab and Sindh because of the Enemy on the East. What enemy you see on western borders, Iran?

Only and only if, people as leanered as you stop thinking about callow ideas and start telling your own people the benefits of these developments, things would have been very much different.

An example:
When it was decided the a cantt should be made in Pano Aqil, there was so much resistance that the Army even had to make use of tanks, but today when the cantt has been established every tome dick and harry wishes that another cantt be made in the surroundings.
Reasons:
Army schools were constructed.

A CMH which provides care to hundreds is there.

A railway station was made there, just because it was in the requirements of the cantt. And ofcurse the locals benefits from it the most.

That is THE problem. Schools were not there because Civilians don’t deserve schooling? Hospital was not there because civilians don’t get sick? A railway station was not there because civilians don’t travel? All that came after Army came.

The 'demographic' changes that the Army brought along (100s of officers who accidentally happened to be well read and well groomed and thousands of troops who again are better then many poor souls because of the 'awareness' and education that the army imparts in them) paved a way for the locals to compete and 'be like' them. These 1000 of men directly and indirectly boosted the local economy.

Only Army officers are well-read and well-groomed? Civilians you think are illiterate and un-civilized?

Not to mention the requirements of the military itself and of its men to ask for things that were usually not available in Pano Aqil initially (like removable hard drive, IDE to SATA cables, Chicken nuggets, 90 gram papers, binding/printing facilities, excessive transportation systems, computer accessories..i really have to get down to these petty things as still there are majority of areas in Pakistan where people dont even know of these things)

And you suggest that only Army uses these things? We civilians use Jungle trash?

i dont want to say that the Army was some kinda superior being and the poor residents of PAqil were inferior but that thing is that humans tend to learn from others. If i see something new and nice what stops me to adopt it? i dont say that hadn't the Army been there they would have stayed in the dark ages, but atleast it acted as a catalyst!

Your above paragraphs clearly suggest what you think of Army and what you think of civilians.

When i was in Siachen i had to conduct a survey as regards to the developments of the locals in Dansum and surroundings.

i observed the following things:

Those people there never even cooked the food due to the extreme cold. They just used to make a mixture of flour and stuff and bury it in the ground for the coming six months and just ate out from the ground.

The Army told them how to cook and use a thing known as 'cooking oil'. well i dont mean that we run the cooking classes there, but ofcourse when i will start 'importing' oil in that area and hiring the locals as cooks with the passage of time the 'awareness' will prevail.

This I have heard for the first time and find it extremely hard to believe. At any rate, if they were getting required calories and if they were not getting sick from that ‘uncooked’ food, it is totally acceptable medically.

They never knew that what chicken is (most of them), they were unaware of stuff like condiments, TV was like a magic to them, what to talk about computers and printers!!

Of course because up in those mountains and in extreme cold, they don’t have poultry farms. Just like in the plains of Punjab you dont see polar Bears or Penguins. By the way, did you introduce them to Elephants and Zebras?

If the Army wanted it could have asked an 'outsider' to contract the stuff that it requirs, but no, instead the locals were encourged to bring in the stuff, they were 'forced; that they should go out of that 1 km by 1 km village and see the world outside. Which, gladly, they did and the end result, you find their kids playing games on PCs, you find them drinking pepsi and stuff, you find them wearing guud cloths, they know that there is something known as newspaper.

Because it was a cheaper alternative for the Army. You did not good to them, you just saved yourself some money.

Gradually kids were 'made' to reach APSs in pindi and other areas (those who excelled in the local schools run by the Army) and now i quote you a long list from the area of the men who today serve the Army as Officers!! i call this an achievement! A place were the only 'mashgala' was soothing the Zohs (the big huge cow type creature with long hairs usually found in the high mountains) now were talking about the poverty in the country and seemed concerned about the global economic crisis!!

The question is this: Army has ruled this unfortunate country for 40 or so years. Why General Iskandar Mirza, or FM Ayub Khan, or General Yahya Khan or Genral Zia or General Musharraf never bothered to send people to educate those un-civilized mountain people?

The people who used to sit and sh!t anywhere they wanted were much mature and sensible now.

I have seen the villagers in Punjab and Sindh using the ‘natural’ toilets! Why Army was not able to make these people more mature and sensible?

Today all of them know how speak Urdu, initially we had to talk with them as if we were talking to someone in the stone ages!

Can you speak Latin, or Malay or Japanese, or Sawahili? Do you think those who do not talk in Urdu or in English are from stone ages?

i dont say that the Army is the savior but the thing is that it has a default process which tends to bring development along due to its huge size and requirements!

Oh sure that is exactly what you are trying to shove down my ‘civilian’ throat. But I don’t buy this, and Balochs don’t buy this.

Though this is not exactly the reason of constructing the cantts in Balochistan but it definitely is a small shine in the bigger picture!

To bring civilization, all that is needed to be done is to construct a road across those areas. The development and civilization will automatically reach to the people.

Enigma, what you wrote was neither surprising nor new for me. I have heard the same kind of stuff from many Army officers who believe that Civilians are lower species. What really surprised me however was that nobody, not a single person replied to what you wrote here in past one week. This suggests to me how insensitive we have become and how we have accepted the supremacy of Army rule as our fate. Or probably for most of the members this was not an issue at all. At any rate, for me, in the words of Iqbal "mujhe hai hukm-e-azaN".

This same mentality resulted in the separation of East Pakistan and if this prevails as is, Army will only be left with Punjab to preach this ‘Army supremacy’ philosophy. You have no clue how much Army is hated in smaller provinces. A time will come (though I wish it never comes) when you’ll realize that you Army guys were terribly wrong on several key issues. Sooner you start considering the civilians as much human as much the military is, better it will be for your own survival.

 

[qsaark]

Which is better education system, 'Domicile' or 'Local'?

Is Local cert considered equal or better than the Domicile?

No, the 'local' and 'domicile' are two systems that discriminate between the residency status. All the non-Baloch and non-Pathans are given 'domicile' certificates if they have lived long enough in Balochistan. On the other hand, the 'son of the soil', Baloch and Pathans are given 'local' certificates.

So if you have a domicile certificate, everyone knows that you are an 'immigrant' who has settled in Balochistan. If you carry a 'local' certificate, than you are a person who is ethnically Baloch or Pathan and you are a resident of Balochistan for several generations.

 

[Elmo]

[Self-deleted]

 

[Xeric]

qsaark

 

[TexasJohn]

qsaark

I don't post much I guess until I read the conversation -, but I read the entire thread so far. As far as your logic all I can say is simply "WOW". You are certainly out there!!

Just an outsiders observation. Enigma, Do you really belive all you said, sir?

About how the Army out of goodness of heart and noble goals, have bought infinite hapiness to these otherwise ignorant masses.... WoW! simply WOW!!

 

[MastanKhan]

Enigma,

Thankyou very much for the very informative post. My father was posted in sukkur in 1973 and I am very familiar with Paqil before the cantonment---just the national highway---a few mud houses---some ta stalls truck stands---a few brick house---was there a school in paqil---I don't remember.

But the truth in the sub continent is that where ever the millitary went---ie wherever the cantonments were built----it brought prosperity, education and welbeing to the area. Quetta itseld---I lived there for 4 plus year late 60's---another town whose economy depended upon the millitary cantt and other civil govt servants.

Interests of the federal govt supercede the interests of the provinces---if the feds want to sell gwadar land---they may---for they have invested and made something out of gwadar as well.

 

[Xeric]

I don't post much I guess until I read the conversation -, but I read the entire thread so far. As far as your logic all I can say is simply "WOW". You are certainly out there!!

Just an outsiders observation. Enigma, Do you really belive all you said, sir?

About how the Army out of goodness of heart and noble goals, have bought infinite hapiness to these otherwise ignorant masses.... WoW! simply WOW!!

Actually i am not much of a story writer, so sir i dont 'makeup' things. A confirmation to what i claimed could be called up from any sphere, moreover Mastan has already agreed.

Now about your concern: i want to make it very clear that what all that i have written here and many other threads as regards to Army's guud deeds is not to justify Army's involvement in the governmental affairs nor it is to claim that our military is some sorta superior entity, rather it was to make clear that the Army has never been upto dirty works and would and had not done anything more than that was absolutely necessary!

i have been simply boasting about the 'guuds' that have been brought along with the military's presence at a certain place and this is very natural and even you have to agree to it, atleast this phenomenon have been there in the past.

The fact that you belong to the States might hinder in understanding our mechanics especially the military one, as our military (to include all the forces) have been a great driving force behind our nation, though may be today this 'pride' may have been down graded, but still many cling on to this truth!

Leaving aside other arguments i'll accentuate on one only as an example, could you or anyone else come up with a logical explanation so not to allow construction of cantonments in certain parts of the country. How on earth could it affect the populace there negatively?(unless they are constructing a nuke testing site near it ..lollzz). Though this may not be a perfect example it might be considered as if a town is not allowing a police station to be opened there!

So in short what i have been hammering around is that the military where ever it has gone has always brought prosperity to that area, unless it has gone there to kick someone out. Though this 'bringing prosperity and happiness' was not at all the aim behind any involvement of the military (either by constructing cantts, opening bases, activating certain border lines etc etc), but this is something that cames along with the package and this 'prosperity' thing is there by default.

Doesnt the US military, when it hires a hotel to station its troops in some country, bring lots of $$ to that place??

 

[Xeric]

Enigma,

Thankyou very much for the very informative post. My father was posted in sukkur in 1973 and I am very familiar with Paqil before the cantonment---just the national highway---a few mud houses---some ta stalls truck stands---a few brick house---was there a school in paqil---I don't remember.

But the truth in the sub continent is that where ever the millitary went---ie wherever the cantonments were built----it brought prosperity, education and welbeing to the area. Quetta itseld---I lived there for 4 plus year late 60's---another town whose economy depended upon the millitary cantt and other civil govt servants.

Interests of the federal govt supercede the interests of the provinces---if the feds want to sell gwadar land---they may---for they have invested and made something out of gwadar as well.

Sir Thnx for testimonial!

The only thing that i wanted to highlight was that the military is not there to 'eat' up the country and rule it out. Our military (and every other also) very firmly believe that it has to take its strength from the nation, so no military can confront own masses.

To those who think the military has been bad should try to understand that had it been so wicked the 0.5 million 'humans' would have never joined it at the first place, BTW in case someone had doubts, all of them come from Pakistan to include quite a large number even from 'overseas Pakistanis' group. If the case had been otherwise the military would have starved of 'men'

Second, (though strictly against Army's involvement in civilian affairs) they also forgot that it again had been Pakistanis who have been distributing sweets during various take overs!

P.S. Though the above mentioned text is lame claims on my part, but sometime it is guud to be sarcastic

 

[TexasJohn]

Actually i am not much of a story writer, so sir i dont 'makeup' things. A confirmation to what i claimed could be called up from any sphere, moreover Mastan has already agreed.

Now about your concern: i want to make it very clear that what all that i have written here and many other threads as regards to Army's guud deeds is not to justify Army's involvement in the governmental affairs nor it is to claim that our military is some sorta superior entity, rather it was to make clear that the Army has never been upto dirty works and would and had not done anything more than that was absolutely necessary!

i have been simply boasting about the 'guuds' that have been brought along with the military's presence at a certain place and this is very natural and even you have to agree to it, atleast this phenomenon have been there in the past.

The fact that you belong to the States might hinder in understanding our mechanics especially the military one, as our military (to include all the forces) have been a great driving force behind our nation, though may be today this 'pride' may have been down graded, but still many cling on to this truth!

Leaving aside other arguments i'll accentuate on only as an example, could you or anyone else come up with a logical explanation so not to allow construction of cantonments in certain parts of the country. How on earth could it affect the populace there negatively?(unless they are constructing a nuke testing site near it ..lollzz). Though this may not be a perfect example it might be considered as if a town is not allowing a police station to be opened there!

So in short what i have been hammering around is that the military where ever it has gone has always brought prosperity to that area, unless it has gone there to kick someone out. Though this 'bringing prosperity and happiness' was not at all the aim behind any involvement of the military (either by constructing cantts, opening bases, activating certain border lines etc etc), but this is something that cames along with the package and this 'prosperity' thing is there by default.

Doesnt the US military, when it hires a hotel to station its troops in some country, bring lots of $$ to that place??

Enigma,

I am not denying that expenditure by military does have some "collateral" benefits. However, what is happening in Gwadar is not benefitting the locals as well as it could. Especially when you import a crew from another state rather than hire a local Baluchi. That, and the fact that they are being deprived of their just share of natural gas revenue, so they can build the schools etc. that you now build. That is their beef and always has been.

I don't think the Army should lower their standards for the Baluchis. Their regiments fought bravely and proved themselves in World War II and since. A sub-standard recruitment only demoralizes the force as a whole - " let's not send THOSE guys to battle, they are mostly lesser warriors" would be the thinking. If the boot camps will weed out the unfit, then why bother with trying to train those you know will fail? It is a waste of money and time is it not?

All these guys want to do is to be treated as equals, not lesser citizens.

I don't think the Army should run commercial business, after all I did not go to War College to learn to run a cornflake plant. Ours don't run businesses, it would be unheard off - we the people simply won't allow that. Officers and servicemen have plenty to do as it is.

 

[Zulfiqar]

I don't think the Army should run commercial business, after all I did not go to War College to learn to run a cornflake plant. Ours don't run businesses, it would be unheard off - we the people simply won't allow that. Officers and servicemen have plenty to do as it is.

Those businesses are run by employing "Retired" officers and they are for the welfare of mostly retired personnels and their families. Our defence budget is very small and the military cannot afford to give facilities like medical care to retired personnels without the involvement of organizations like Fauji foundation.

Many army officers from fighting arms do not have technical education which will help them after retirement but they have administrative skills and after some training they work in administrative fields.

Those who have engineering backgrounds are rehired into organizations like FWO(civil works) and some strategic organizations.These organizations use their experience. Civilians are also there and are in majority.

The companies run under Askari group and Fauji group do not employ serving officers so i do not see a problem. Moreover, they contribute to the GDP and employ the local civil population. Many of them are publicly listed under our stock exchanges so the local population also owns shares in these companies.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

One ethnic group must not be allowed to change the demography.

Qsaark sahib,

That is a forgone conclusion in any nation where one particular racial, ethnic, religious or whatever 'group' forms a large majority of the population. Strictly speaking, in Pakistan the Punjabis are a plurality rather than a majority (on the basis of mother tongue - 40% or so according to the last census I believe).

The amalgamation of these 'groups', in any country that wants to call itself a 'nation', is also a foregone conclusion. Even in Punjab intellectuals are mourning the slow demise of Punjabi as a language, but I think it is natural as Urdu and English increasingly become the lingua franca, and students, when they do strive to learn beyond their mother tongues and cultures, choose to study the languages and cultures that will given them a leg up in the global marketplace - Chinese, French, Spanish etc.

I am simplifying the argument, but I hope the point was clear.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

No, the 'local' and 'domicile' are two systems that discriminate between the residency status. All the non-Baloch and non-Pathans are given 'domicile' certificates if they have lived long enough in Balochistan. On the other hand, the 'son of the soil', Baloch and Pathans are given 'local' certificates.

So if you have a domicile certificate, everyone knows that you are an 'immigrant' who has settled in Balochistan. If you carry a 'local' certificate, than you are a person who is ethnically Baloch or Pathan and you are a resident of Balochistan for several generations.

Which is completely absurd and discriminatory - the system should be singular, as in the US. One is either a resident of a province after living there for a certain amount of time or is not, whether as a willing migrant/settler or an IDP.

 

[MastanKhan]

Enigma,

People who have not lived in interior sindh in the 60's and 70's, have no clue of the poverty of interior sindh. The cantonment at Paqil changed the life of the sindhis in that area and the surroundings---. I praise the millitary for bringing life to that area and to all the areas that they have their development projects.

Now as for the army---it has a seperate wing managed and operated by retd officers and retd soldiers---their business ventures are run to benefit the retd millitary people---it is basically their 401K retirement plan. It has nothing to do to stop the civilian side to run and operate similiar business ventures. Civilian and private business owners may chose to do whatever they want to.

As for as gwadar is concerned---baluchistan may not have too many qualified people to work at the port---so the jobs will go to the outsiders---as is always the case anywhere else in the world in upcoming ventures in poor and less educated areas.

If the sardars of baluchistans don't eat up all the money and let the govt set up schools, colleges and hospitals life will be much better.

While being posted in interior sindh as a doctor, my father told me a story about a sardar----why do I allow schoold and colleges and hospitals in my lands and in my area---right now the peasants salute the dust arising from the tires of my jeep---'who will care for me if the peasants get educated. Ironic isn't it.

 

[qsaark]

Which is completely absurd and discriminatory - the system should be singular, as in the US. One is either a resident of a province after living there for a certain amount of time or is not, whether as a willing migrant/settler or an IDP.

It indeed is absurd and discriminatory-When I did my BSc, I wanted to take admission in the Biochem Department to do MSc in Biochem. There were a total of 22 seats for MSc Biochem and ONLY 2 for the Quetta District and ONLY 1 for Quetta Urban. And Only one 'Open Merit' seat. So I as a domicile holder and a resident of Quetta Urban had only one seat for which I could qualify provided I was highest scorer in the list of merit (for Quetta Urban). Or if I was the top scorer, I could qualify for the 'open merit' seat. Fortunately, I was able to take admission on the 'open merit' seat and another very deserving fellow took up the Quetta Urban seat. So I know all too well how absurd and discriminatory the quota system in Balochistan is.

But I also know why the 'locals' want to have this system in place. It is easy to blame the Sardars for not letting Schools established in their 'areas', but we tend to forget that these very Sardars were fully supported by various Pakistani Governments, military and civilian alike. Bugti was praised much during the 70s only because he had supported the Army action in Balochistan, the same Bugti became an enemy of Pakistan when he voiced against the discriminatory treatment of Balochistan by Islamabad. Was that not unfortunate that the Murri tribes were openly supported by the Musharraf regime to counter Akbar Bugti? Instead of totally eliminating the feudal system, our governments have strengthened it, and when this system bites us back, we try to resolve the issue by carrying out military operations.

During Musharraf’s time, Balochistan was promised to give Rs. 350 million, in reality though, only Rs 35 Million were given to Balochistan. Similarly, Zardari promised to give Rs 46 million, but in reality, this was only the budget of the Balochistan Government, no additional money only propaganda. The Balochistan problem has gone beyond the blame game, it needs a real solution and urgently. And trust me (or don’t) establishing cantonments in Balochistan will only result in more harm than good.

 

[Xeric]

Enigma,

I am not denying that expenditure by military does have some "collateral" benefits.

Well thanx it fitted in your brain easily
------------

As i claimed that it would actually be difficult for a yank to understand our mechanics has been equally proven in your post that i am quoting.
Here we go....

However, what is happening in Gwadar is not benefitting the locals as well as it could. Especially when you import a crew from another state rather than hire a local Baluchi.

Another classic example of naivety on your in understanding our mechanics or should i say any other mechanics that works outside the States!

i wonder why didnt you say that why do we ask the Chinese to build our nuclear power plants and why do we ask assistance from the americans in many fields, why do many foreign engineers work in Pakistan and many other countries, why do we find american experts down deep in africa and else where?!

If we Pakistanis were so advanced we could have already built Gwadar and reached the moon before you, but alas we lame!

That, and the fact that they are being deprived of their just share of natural gas revenue,

Again you missed our 'mechanics', yank sir.
We have in place a federal sstem, and the provinces are given revenue so that they can make use it for thier uplift, nobody stoped Mr Bugti and other CM/governors not to use that money and to put it in thei pockets. The government failed to mend them so the Army had to do it, Bugti gone things are different now.

Yes they have not been given their share of gas, but why ask the clarifications from the Army?? It was NOT the Army who stopped that or made them suffer, ask our politicians instead.

And as we admit that they have been deprived so we also admit that we have to make up the short comings, but the government failing that atleast the Army has taken an one sided approach! And i would request to appreciate it rather than bullying it!

The Army have never got any dividends out of these welfare acts but as it feels the 'shame' and responsibility and knows that the government would always need a catalyst to make them work, the Army has to face the blunt!

Nobody has asked the Army to do this nor are we bound to, but it is something known as patriotism!

And if yopu feel that the Balochs were deprived of their rights please ask the concern authorities about it, dont make it an excuse to counter the guud acts/show that the Army has been putting up.

How on earth can you compare the welfare projects of Army with the deprivation of Baloch people(which actually was the fault of previous governmental policies)?

And yes as for kicking the 'bad' Balochs, that had happened and would be happening until they are back on track. No Baloch, Sindhi, Pathan, Punjabi, Mohajir, Kashmiri, etc etc is above a PakistanI.

I don't think the Army should lower their standards for the Baluchis. Their regiments fought bravely and proved themselves in World War II and since.

Again you messed up with our mechanics here!
Who is saying that the Balochs are 'not' brave, they have been and are one of the most fearsome fighters and we desperately need them on our side!

Standards are being lowered so that more and more Balochs should join in, though it doesnt mean that all of them would make up in joining the Army but atleast it would shake and stir them well.

And as for the standards, if you would read the relaxations carefully you'll come to know that known of them can and would lower the Army's fighting capability!

A sub-standard recruitment only demoralizes the force as a whole - " let's not send THOSE guys to battle, they are mostly lesser warriors" would be the thinking. If the boot camps will weed out the unfit, then why bother with trying to train those you know will fail? It is a waste of money and time is it not?

What on earth are you talking about, sir!

Do you think that does the Army recruit people on "First Come, First Serve" basis??!

Lowering the satandars would not mean that any tom, dicjk and harry would just nake it through! The selection process is there to separate the wheat from the chaff and get the donkeys out from horses! Drop outs are always there during training and afterwards but would they all be 'lower standardly' selected Balochs!!!??
No IMHO!

All these guys want to do is to be treated as equals, not lesser citizens.

Exactly!
And thats what we are trying to do!

Again as you sit in States, try come visit the remote areas of Baluchistan, you will find them 'different' from the remaining Pakistan.(i am deliberately not comparing it with 'something')

I don't think the Army should run commercial business, after all I did not go to War College to learn to run a cornflake plant. Ours don't run businesses, it would be unheard off - we the people simply won't allow that. Officers and servicemen have plenty to do as it is.

You are right, but as you again missed our mechanics so i dont blame of you of your concern, try to read my thread http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...ion-building-activities-pakistani-army-6.html, it will give you much insight about it, and yes BTW, our 'all' Army doesnt run the commercial business, it hires people or expert i must say for it. We are paid to fight not to earn! Moreover, in our Army, Officers are strictly forbidden to run private business, it is a court martial offense (now please dont say that the Army stops its men from doing what it itself does, as that would be just lame!)
Try read my other thread, i hope it would clear must dust, and on a lighter note, what exactly is that which bothers you if the Army is boosting the country's economy and providing millions job and at the same time maintaining its high standard of an efficient killing machine?

Army in Pakistan is different, we call it a national army ( i know i have stepped on many tails when i said this) You'll not get it, unless you become "George ka Pakistan"

And one more thing, never ever compare your forces with ours, i just dont like it, i take it as insulting. There's a difference of many zeros between trillions and millions!!!