Pakistanis and caste system

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Where did that come out of nowhere? This thread is about "castes" - nothing to do with Islam; unlike castes in your Hinduism.

Like i said..Caste is a means of dividing people.You may not have caste systems but still have people dividing each other on the basis of whatever you would like to call it.

 

[474474]

what is the difference between indian punjabis and pakistani punjabies? nothing, like I said (sikhs) actually tend to look more outsiders then muslim Punjabi on average

Sikhs are quite homogenous, same looks, compared to Pakistani punjabis, who vary more than say, a khiite and a balochi or a pathan and a kashmiri

 

[WAR-rior]

I have never heard of it. It only exists in India.

Welcome to Earth Bro.

They are following it as sub-ethnicities that define their history. I don't see anyone calling themselves brahmin or dalit etc.

NAmes differ but attitude sustains. Difference between a Kasai n Pathan is similar to above names

 

[WAR-rior]

There is no caste system.

It's zaat.


And people are moving past looking down on each other these days.

Q : What is zaat called in English ?
A : Caste.



caste Meaning | caste Meaning in Urdu with Definition and Translation

PS: Thodi English seekh lo bhai, Pakistan ki IT industry develop karne mein kaam aaega.

 

[gangsta_rap]

Q : What is zaat called in English ?
A : Caste.



caste Meaning | caste Meaning in Urdu with Definition and Translation

PS: Thodi English seekh lo bhai, Pakistan ki IT industry develop karne mein kaam aaega.

Alright genius,how about we clear this issue up?
The term "Zaat" is used to describe lineage,more specifically ancestral lineage and can be related to the caste system,however they aren't the same.
The Caste system has religious connotations,the term "Zaat" may have originated from the caste system but it does not follow the same rules that the Hindu caste system does.Honestly I think "zaat" is just used by idiots to justify supremacy over other individuals by falsely relating themselves to rulers of the successive empires that had appeared in Pakistan since the 8th century.

Regardless both customs are backward,against the Islamic values for which Pakistan stands and another hindrance to the progressing social structure within Pakistan

 

[WAR-rior]

Alright genius,how about we clear this issue up?
The term "Zaat" is used to describe lineage,more specifically ancestral lineage and can be related to the caste system,however they aren't the same.
The Caste system has religious connotations,the term "Zaat" may have originated from the caste system but it does not follow the same rules that the Hindu caste system does.Honestly I think "zaat" is just used by idiots to justify supremacy over other individuals by falsely relating themselves to rulers of the successive empires that had appeared in Pakistan since the 8th century.

Regardless both customs are backward,against the Islamic values for which Pakistan stands and another hindrance to the progressing social structure within Pakistan

With the bold part, I no more consider u fit for an argument.

And why does everything has to compare with Hinduism. Both are different. The matter of fact is both mite be different but are termed as CASTE. ie. ZAAT. Dont default Caste system as Hindu Caste system. Word CASTE is common noun and Hindu Caste System is Proper Noun. Ohh $hit. Again I had to teach you English Grammer. .......

And dont temme Pakistanis dont differentiate on basis of caste. Its just the style of discrimination is different from hindus but the bottomline is, discrimination is there.

And again, thanks for calling me Genius. Temme something I dont know.

 

[Kambojaric]

"Zaat" is far more related to the word tribe than it is to the word caste, as the latter implies the status you have in society based on the family you were born in. A tribal system on the other hand is a division of society again on the basis of which family you were born it, but it excludes the notion of one tribe being superior to the other.
Looking at the Pakistani scenario, Pakistani tribes like Jatts, Gujjars or moving further west the Afridis, Achakzais dont consider themselves superior than other tribes in the region. They are very proud of the fact that they belong to this or that tribe but the idea that they are somehow naturally above other tribes on the social order is non existant. Such a view is incompatible with Islamic beliefs.

 

[WAR-rior]

"Zaat" is far more related to the word tribe than it is to the word caste, as the latter implies the status you have in society based on the family you were born in. A tribal system on the other hand is a division of society again on the basis of which family you were born it, but it excludes the notion of one tribe being superior to the other.
Looking at the Pakistani scenario, Pakistani tribes like Jatts, Gujjars or moving further west the Afridis, Achakzais dont consider themselves superior than other tribes in the region. They are very proud of the fact that they belong to this or that tribe but the idea that they are somehow naturally above other tribes on the social order is non existant. Such a view is incompatible with Islamic beliefs.

Even Indians have tribes but we dont call is zaat. Its called Kabila, both in hindi and urdu. Dont mixup words n its meanings plz.

 

[Kambojaric]

Even Indians have tribes but we dont call is zaat. Its called Kabila, both in hindi and urdu. Dont mixup words n its meanings plz.

I understand that the lines between these words are very thin, but here we are analyzing them in the Pakistani context. The prevalence of the word "caste" is very common amongst Pakistanis, but i doubt many have a complete understanding of what the word implies. As a Pakistani I have seen it being used regularly without people trying to imply that their caste is "higher" then the others. In essence what they mean is "tribe" but for some reason the word "tribe/qabila" just hasnt kicked off. This is a legacy of pre partition India I suppose*, but the point I am trying to make is that when Pakistanis use the word "caste" today they dont mean it in the same way as when Indians say "caste". When a Pakistani says that he belongs to the Gujjar caste he doesnt mean that he is a "kshatriya". He doesnt mean that he belongs to a certain position in the social order. He is just saying that he belongs to a certain group of people who call themselves Gujjar without trying to imply superiority or inferiority.

*The words zaat and caste are used mostly by Punjabis and other Eastern Pakistanis who before 47 had Hindus and Sikhs living amongst them. This shows a clear influence of Hinduism, as Western Pakistanis like Pakhtuns, Balochis amongst whom Hindus and Sikhs were a small minority use Qabila/Tribe.

 

[abvgroup]

Sikhs are quite homogenous, same looks, compared to Pakistani punjabis, who vary more than say, a khiite and a balochi or a pathan and a kashmiri

that maybe true but I find sikhs to be more west eurasian influenced over all then pakistani punjabies, you are right though the diversity of looks in pakistani punjab is much more, however an average Lahorei is more "indian" looking then lets say an average sikh

 

[INDIC]

"Zaat" is far more related to the word tribe than it is to the word caste, as the latter implies the status you have in society based on the family you were born in. A tribal system on the other hand is a division of society again on the basis of which family you were born it, but it excludes the notion of one tribe being superior to the other.
Looking at the Pakistani scenario, Pakistani tribes like Jatts, Gujjars or moving further west the Afridis, Achakzais dont consider themselves superior than other tribes in the region. They are very proud of the fact that they belong to this or that tribe but the idea that they are somehow naturally above other tribes on the social order is non existant. Such a view is incompatible with Islamic beliefs.

Punjabi or Sindhi people never had tribal system.

 

[abvgroup]

Punjabi or Sindhi people never had tribal system.

they have more of a clan/caste system, which is actually worse because at least in a tribal system you can marry people form other tribes often, in a clan/system you really can't do that, you can be even punished severly for that.

Baloch/Pashtun tribal systems are not that bad to be honest, at least compared with the brutality of the interior sindhi/punjabi system/culture

 

[INDIC]

they have more of a clan/caste system, which is actually worse because at least in a tribal system you can marry people form other tribes often, in a clan/system you really can't do that, you can be even punished severly for that.

Baloch/Pashtun tribal systems are not that bad to be honest, at least compared with the brutality of the interior sindhi/punjabi system/culture

People here try to refer caste as tribe to show they don't have caste system and Panchayat system as tribal system. During ancient times, when Greek Schythians or Kushans came to the subcontinent, they were accepted as Kshatriyas by Hinduism as they were warriors, were allowed to marry women from other castes and emerged as new caste in Hinduism.

Even in North India, Pathans are considered as caste by Muslims.

 

[Rocky rock]

I am Rajput and i am proud to be... Rajput is one of the best caste Rajputs rose to prominence during the 6th to 12th centuries. Until the 20th century, Rajputs ruled in the "overwhelming majority" of the princely states of Rajasthan and Surashtra, where the largest number of princely states were found.they ruled the world...here's the link read it by urself!

Rajput - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Kambojaric]

Punjabi or Sindhi people never had tribal system.

I wouldnt disagree too much with that with. At least not a tribal system along the same lines as those of Pashtuns or Balochis. But even Wikipedia decides to name Jatts, Gujjars as tribes List of Punjabi tribes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Todays Pakistan is not pre 47 Pakistan. The effects of Hinduism have to a large extent(in other places still are) going away.

they have more of a clan/caste system, which is actually worse because at least in a tribal system you can marry people form other tribes often, in a clan/system you really can't do that, you can be even punished severly for that.

Baloch/Pashtun tribal systems are not that bad to be honest, at least compared with the brutality of the interior sindhi/punjabi system/culture

I can understand your post with regards to interior Punjab and Sindh to a certain extent but really come to the urban areas and you'l find inter tribal marriages common. My sister is married to a gujjar, brother to a jat, aunt to a Rajput and so forth. Up to my parents time you only married within the tribe, but today marrying outside the tribe is the norm. The only tribe in the urban areas who I have seen fiercely make sure that their offspring marry within the tribe are the Syeds. Again the reverence for Syeds by some Pakistanis is the only aspect of Pakistani society that could be considered a somewhat equivalent of the Hindu caste system.

Moving on I am fine with the word "clan" as well, because again it does not imply any inherent status of a group of people within society. My problem lies with the fact that in the South Asian context, the word "caste" is naturally associated with the hindu caste system which the Pakistani Punjabi system quite simply does not follow.