So what is your story? Why joined PDF?

[Azadkashmir]

we got civil war right here on pdf.

 

[Zarvan]

Your actions in practice place Pakistan first and Islam second. My thoughts place Pakistan first and then Muslim brotherhood. There is no differance between me and you only that you make big claims which don';t stand up.

If you really stood by Islam first you would have long gone of to fight a jihad in Gaza against the zionist occupiers and oppressors of Muslims. Talk is easy. Practice is difficult.

Get my point?
Should you not be trying to remove Bajwa instead and start a civil war in Sindh?
Facing truth is a right b*atch. Hypocracy is easy way out.

No for me Islam always comes first. You yourself is confused.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

No for me Islam always comes first.

Is that why your fondling your beard in Lahore and not fighting the oppressor who is killing Muslims women and children in Gaza while desecrating Al-Aqsa?

 

[Chakar The Great]

I am a nationalist. Pakistan is my nationalism.

 

[IbnAbdullah]

Salaam

My friend this means your a liability to Pakistan and a asset to Islam. You see what I am going to say is very specfic, subtle but very important point to note. Nations states are legal constructs. That is they are man made and always are premised on land and defined borders. The soveirgnty of that state only covers the land or geography within those borders.

This concept of nation state places it at direct confrontation with Islam which is a global faith and it's loyalty is to the brotherhood of Muslims and not territorial limit of geography. It knows no borders. Your Muslim brotherhood trumps all other aspects. So a Pakistani, Lahori Sikh is second to you then a Bosnian Muslim on other side of the world.

When Muslims come under attack on other side of the world you would be required to go defend them. Pakistan therefore becomes a napak. Pakistan Army thus merely a tool of the state of Pakistan and not Islam.

A great example was 2001 when USA demanded Taliban to hand over OBL. They refused. He was a Muslim brother. That was all there was to it and this led to US invasion and rest of it. However what did Pakistan do? If Pakistan placed Muslim brotherhood first it would have stood by the Taliban but instead Pakistan Army become a instrument of the Americans.

Can you see my point?
You sound like a communist.

I think your understanding of Islam is a bit weak.

Islam does not exist in an abstract form without any relation to reality.

It is at these times that I can see why Islam wasn't just revealed fully and completely in one go upon a king instead it was revealed over two decades and different situations.

After the treaty of hudaibiya, Muslims had agreed to return any Muslim who would come from makkah whilst the opposite wouldn't be required. A famous narration has a Muslim who barely made it escaping torture but had to be given back over (knowing well he'd be tortured again). It was done to honour the treaty. Muslims hated to do it but it was done. Allah made for those people a way when the escaping Muslims decided to form a community near one of the trade routes used by makkans.

The first priority was given to the medina city which was directly ruled by RasulAllah pbuh. The treaty protected the Muslims of that place. Not all Muslims everywhere. But it was honoured. Once that society was strong enough and the situation permitted, they made effort to help others. But before that, the matter was handled with intelligence.

The point is that Islam isn't as simple and black and white as some would like to project.

With regards to Pakistan, the slogan 'pakistan ka matlab kya, la ilaha ill Allah' is how Muslims see it. Pakistan is the primary base that has to be protected and strengthened to whatever degree possible. Once that is achieved sufficiently, then other actions and policies may follow.

So Islam didn't necessarily demand that Pakistan invite destruction upon itself for Afghanistan.

The citizens are required to follow the leadership in matters of state affairs. The leadership is required to act in the best interest of the Muslims whilst prioritising the people under their control.

Each shepherd responsible for their flock.


Lastly, for a Muslim, Allah has to be number one. If you put your country above Islam (which is submission to Allah), than you worship your country. Your country is a shareek/partner of Allah and that negates la ilaha il Allah.

Again, it's a lot more complicated than what some say but one must remember the complexity is not just just on the religion's side but also that of the nation state.

A nation is not a person with one mind and interest. A nation has within it different groups of people. One group's idea of nation may be compatible with one but not the other. In democracies the interest is defined by the majority voters - regardless of whether the minority is being oppressed or not.

A contemporary example could be the Indian Muslim may suddenly find themselves under a group that is increasingly defining patriotism as being more hindu like. You have slogans (and policies encouraging) 'ghar wapsi'. Should the Muslims of India revert back to Hinduism because the majority defines it as being in the interest of the state?
Salaam

Is that why your fondling your beard in Lahore and not fighting the oppressor who is killing Muslims women and children in Gaza while desecrating Al-Aqsa?

The obligation/authority of external warfare and fighting is upon the state. The Muslim does his/her duty by paying taxes that goes towards the maintenance of the armed forces of the country.

The decision regarding when and how to use the resources of the state towards some goal resets with the leaders, not ordinary people.

 

[El Sidd]

I was bored at some small European airport reading Panama paper fallout. Got dragged in here by @PakSword simplicity

 

[Big Tank]

Joined PDF back in 2010. My brother who had joined the Army was active here prior to his call letter, while I used to spectate him browsing around the discussions. He abandoned his account which I held for 3 years until I made this one in 2013.

10 years back, I remember asking very dumb questions like *whY dONt wE hAve aN aiRcrAfT cArEEr PlX*

PDF Awaam at that time was highly sophisticated and discussions on topics used to be on topic, rarely we'd go offtopic. I was 16 at that time and received great answers which led me to the understandings of how ACs work.

I also remembering reading those bizzare adventures of our member Batman vs IRGC agents trying to assassinate him for his role in exposing Iran at PDF haha. Not being offensive but it was hell of a gem in those days.

Anyway, since 2013 am a Major because I rarely get involved in debates. I prefer reading more than speaking

 

[Goritoes]

Meri ek ID nakli hai, Mai hockey ka buhat bara khiladi tha , ek din @WebMaster ko meri fake ID pe gussa a gaya tu unho ne meri hockey stick se meri fake ID ko ban kerdia.

 

[Reichsmarschall]

I always liked aircrafts but didn't know about them so I took to internet to learn about Paf and inadvertently I made a mistake of watching IAF vs PAF video on Dailymotion. The Indian creator showed sukhois as some sort of alien tech and severely exaggerated it's capabilities. So I was worried about how our falcons will address that threat, I was doing perusing the net looking for an answer and came across this forum and never looked back.
This was the first thread that i ever read.

China's new 'carrier killer' for Pakistan's JF-17 Thunder fighter

The CM-400AKG is not an anti-ship weapon; its flight profile and propulsion suggest that it is more along the lines of an anti-radiation weapon than anything else. If Pakistan wish to invest in heavy-duty anti-shipping capabilities, it should consider purchasing the air-launched YJ-12 (with a...

defence.pk

 

[baqai]

when i was a kid i was fascinated by airforce, always wanted to be pilot, got into computers and started playing flight sims at very early age, got specs at very early stage (i think grade 4 or 5) and for me the only way of "flying fighter" was through flight sims, I think i was around 14 when i stumbled across this site and got registered just to share my enthusiasm and passion, never looked back, not used to post a lot but used to absorb a lot of information. As for my user name, well it's my sir name.

 

[fitpOsitive]

I joined due to her.
Per aakhir main woh bhi saba load Wali nikli.

 

[rambro]

To have a deeper understanding of a complete racist's mind.

 

[IbnAbdullah]

Salaam

To have a deeper understanding of a complete racist's mind.

How's that project going?

 

[newb3e]

i hated indians but then as i grew up started working i realized India is our external enemy but internally we are being destroyed by Alpha Mafia and no one is talking about it

 

[Sharma Ji]

My problem is Indians. I try my best not to dislike Indian Muslims but the moment they try to suck their Government balls and abuse Pakistan just to prove their patriotism is what pisses me off. My problem is not Hindus but Indians.

Dislike for Indians is very commonplace around here... thank you for your candour anyway.

"For every Muslim it's Islam and Islam only. In Islam if your nation comes for you first then that is big problem."

^yep, and although it may work in Islamic countries, this (along with other theological differences) is the main source of contention and conflict between Indian muslims and everyone else (not just HIndus)

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On Topic: I joined to learn about Pakistan, and, if possible, though exceedingly rare these days, have some conversations with Pakistanis about stuff.