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Pervez Hoodbhoy's Secular Delusion

those Mullahs you guys hate so much are your own reflection after all

really? are we calling for beheading and declaring people worth killing for whatever reason?
They have prematurely tried to usurp the conversation and brainwash our children and women, but now the state has taken severe actions against them. They remain a small, toxic number of people, they can easily be crushed.

In a society like Pakistan, an atheistic revolution is simply impossible. These charlatans are no better than the USSR in its heyday, which visited terrible oppression on Afghans, and forced Pakistan's hand.

Pakistan is probably the one society in the world most immune to communist rhetoric, we have a bitter history with these people, and are very proud of having taken down the USSR at its height.

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wow is afghanistan under true islamic sharia after this jihad? are you going to live there or thinking of moving there in the future?
 
@Psychic @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Desert Fox @The Accountant @Hassan_Ishtiaq
Just thank you!

true you have no life in west it work till you drop dead.
Nothing wrong with working hard, especially the Germans 70 years ago worked really hard to re-build Germany. But the current generation tends to woke socialist "work ethics" and this will not end well. And people here have a problem with alcoholism too, during Corona some of my colleagues were really in trouble mentally. You know why? No discos allowed to open. They cannot sustain their work ethics if there is no weekend to drink and party.
Actions speak louder than words.
They really do. And no one of us would live in the West you would accuse us that we don't know the system here.

Pakistan's present condition can be seen by everyone.
Woke WESTERN INFLUENCED POLITICIANS who also send their kids abroad destroyed the country with their cronies and feudal lords. The common village Muslim has nothing to do with that. But you know that. Pakistani liberals and the politicians worship their white masters like a Hindu worships his idols.

We all know what makes the headlines everyday, and we all know that most terrorists in ISIS or Al Qaeda are from Arab Countries or other Islamic countries.
Yes, evil Muslims everywhere!

Like I said, actions speak louder than words. The fact that most Islamists on this forum are people living in western countries really tells you something about which system has been successful and which has failed in the modern era.
Why are you using words like Islamists? Brainwashed much? Most people in this forum live abroad we are speaking English to each other btw. The West has a superior economy due to economic freedom. Our clan and family socialist system is the main reason why we are lacking behind and not our religion. Economic policies implemented by whom? Woke liberals trained in the WEST! Most Pakistanis came to the west in a time where the markets were free and the borders open, not because of gay marriages or feminism.

The nuclear family systems still exist actually. They're the very basis of the right in west. Societies are simply more cut into different groups.
Nuclear family is declining in the West. You have single mothers and divorcees everywhere. There is also a "German" anglicism for this: Patchwork Family
The power of the clergy. We do have clergy. And they do have power.
No need for a clergy in Islam. Islam is the religion without intermediators. Green Turban Halva Khoors not needed.

and yet muslim countries today are rife with crime, poverty and war
Economic policies are responsible for that.

You see a correlation here?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ease_of_doing_business_index

Our problems are not religious ones. That's for sure. But people worshipping the West without questioning and analyzing the real reasons behind that is just plain stupid and shows your inferiority complex.
 
Although i agree with you that these leaders were/are residues of European colonialism; its just a case of Liberal Secular West disposing of one stooge in favor of another or when that particualr leader and country have long since become politically expedient. In the end, no matter how one looks at it; secular west has blood on its hands of millions of innocents, as much as our Pakistani liberals would like us to believe in its alleged moral "superiority".
Look at the results of disposing off these people(who weren't good). Its only death, destruction and misery for those countries and permanent enslavement.
 

Pervez is at it again! Hoodbhoy, like all Westernized modernists, recycles the same few talking points ad nauseam.

1. Islam is backwards. Western secularism is the answer!
2. Islamic education makes people dumb. Western secular education makes people smart!
3. Islamic institutions are associated with terrorism. Western secular institutions are associated with prosperity and progress!

That pretty much summarizes everything Hoodbhoy has ever written in his life.

Such simplistic points might have impressed Western-intoxicated dullards 50 years ago. But it is embarrassing for him to keep trotting out the same lines in this day and age, now that most people are acutely aware of the empty promises of Western "enlightenment."

How ironic that Pervez sings the praises of "critical thinking," yet he is unable to think critically about whether "parroting" the liberal secularism of the West will yield prosperity and happiness for Pakistan or any Muslim country.

For those of us living in the enlightened secular West, we can only chuckle at the child-like naivete of anyone who thinks the West is a utopia all should aspire to.

Turn to any news channel to see American cities literally burning to the ground as protests rage. Watch the violent divisions ripping the country apart. All these violent protesters enjoyed a liberal secular education without the influence of the scary molvi boogey monster of Hoodbhoy's imagination.

The average American is thousands of dollars in debt, lives pay check to check, slogging endless hours at a job he hates, the only thing he looks forward to is the weekend, where he will probably sit in front of his laptop and watch Netflix or order some junk he doesn't need from Amazon. He is living the "perfect" life of obedient, senseless consumerism his secular education has so perfectly prepared him for!

Think of the caricatures of the depressed consumerist alone in his apartment with no family, no faith, no future. Believe it or not, that caricature is the reality for the majority.

And those who do get married, they fare no better. What kind of love can you have for someone you know has been loved and dumped by a dozen (two dozen?) others before you? This is the living nightmare produced by Western secular values. Marriage is seen as such a dead end that most are now opting to avoid it entirely. Many children grow up completely cut off from at least one parent. Many have no clue who their fathers even are! Forget about extended family and the comfort, joy, and support that comes with it.

Liberal secularism not only destroys the akhira with its militant atheism. It also destroys every human aspect of what makes life of the dunya beautiful -- committed love, a happy and devoted family, the sense of purpose that comes with serving one's Creator. These are luxuries most Westerners no longer even know about, let alone enjoy.

But liberal secularism at least brings prosperity and that counts for something, right? No, even this is not true. Many countries have accepted the devil's offer of sacrificing religion and traditional values for the promise of material progress. But Iblis, of course, is a liar.

What amazing progress does a secular country like Romania enjoy? What booming riches does a secular country like Mexico enjoy? What economic advancement does a secular country like Liberia enjoy?

If religion is regressive and secularization and secular education are the path to economic progress, why is it that so many 100% secularized countries have languished for decades at the bottom of the development list?

In reality, the secularization of these countries only serves the Western imperial masters who suck these countries dry, usurping their resources and cheap labor in exchange for advancement that never comes.

It is the oldest trick in the book.

But it is a trick that is made more effective when the Western-educated elites of those countries peddle propaganda to the masses, trying to convince the people -- on behalf of their Western masters -- to abandon their religion, abandon their traditional values, abandon deen.

Elites like Hoodbhoy have tried playing this trick on the Muslims for long enough. But no one is falling for it anymore.

It is time for these old propagandists to retire.

"Whoever makes himself blind against the mention/remembrance [dhikr] of al-RaHmān, We assign for him a devil who accompanies him all the time. And they (the devils) prevent such people from the (right) way, while they deem themselves to be on the right path. Until when such a person will come to Us, he will say (to the devil), “If only there were the distance of East and West between me and you, because you were the worst companion!" And (it will be said to such people,) “Since you were wrongdoers, it will never benefit you today that you are sharing the punishment with each other.” [Quran 43:36-39]






@Alternatiiv @Hiraa @truthfollower

@AUz @The Accountant
and yes islamic republic of pakistan is free of these problems.
 
Yes hoodhoys is delusional and these textbooks from pakistan on physics are work of art
forcing down the throat of children their nonsense religious ideas which has no proof whatsoever
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Yes hoodhoys is delusional and these textbooks from pakistan on physics are work of art
forcing down the throat of children their ideas of nonsense religious ideas which has no proof whatsoever
Can I have the title of the book or the book cover?

Religious nonsense? Says the idol worshipping Hindu. What a time to be alive!
 
So forcing kids to learn about LGBTQ+ rights and forcing them to learn that it is perfectly fine for two men to love each other does not fall under the category of forcing? LoL at your delusions
no one is perfect
 
Although i agree with you that these leaders were/are residues of European colonialism; its just a case of Liberal Secular West disposing of one stooge in favor of another or when that particualr leader and country have long since become politically expedient. In the end, no matter how one looks at it; secular west has blood on its hands of millions of innocents, as much as our Pakistani liberals would like us to believe in its alleged moral "superiority".
Iraq, Syria and Libya were Soviet satellites actually - each country adopted DICTATORSHIP model of leadership and championed communism by extension.

Look at Bashar al-Assad for instance; is he even capable of empathy and remorse? What has he learned from Syrian Civil War? Nothing.

Pinning the blame of everything bad in this world on the Liberal Secular West is something I do not condone in personal capacity. This is a pathway to inciting hatred against the Western Hemisphere by and large, and will fuel extremism by extension. This is not a solution to our problems.

Google "Salafi Jihadism."

WE need to understand that EVERY superpower has distinct values and philosophy and will want to expand its influence in other countries. Each will be ruthless and cannot be trusted.

Islamic countries continue to play into hands of EVERY superpower by and large unfortunately. This is WHY there are divisions in the Pan-Islamic bloc as well as lack of brotherhood.

REPEAT of my previous statements:

WEST is not perfect; not even close. Muslims should be weary of Western philosophies which contradict Islam.

Unfortunately; hardly any society is perfect in this day and age; decay everywhere.

Islamic countries need to adopt a political system which should pave way for those individuals to be eligible for 'elections' who are well-versed in Islam as well as have scientific mindset. These are the kind who can fix DECAY in a society and steer it forward in the manner it should be in theory.

However, that is not the case in practice.

Modern-age politics is dominated by morally bankrupt ELITES and MONEY in many countries including Pakistan.

I will give you another food for thought:


The issue of putting an individual (or an entity) on the PEDESTAL; lack of emphasis on "critical thinking."
 
If muslims of Punjab were second class citizens then non muslims were 3rd class citizens of Punjab. First class chali gayi second class first ban gayi and 3rd class second

lol there is no 3rd class.
 
While I agree that creativity must be nurtured for our society to be all that it can be, our society also needs to reaffirm its foundational cornerstone to maintain a common framework to build upon. In this way we need children to know all aspects of who we are as a people, as a nation, and to what common beliefs we can turn to seek social harmony, equality, and justice.

These detractors of the changes to the curriculum need to propose changes that respect the core goal of the path the reforms are trying to make, while finding ways that encourage the creativity and an inquisitive mind. Perhaps they should fund libraries and require children be allowed to take out any book from the library and be given time in school to be read and ask the teachers about it. Building a science museum each each city where kids can take a trip to will allow kids to wonder and persue the field of it interests them. Funding Children’s programming on television is a very effective way to encourage children to be creative and ask questions.

In the mean time, we have a literacy crisis that undermines civic participation and basic employability among the vast majority of the work force.

Northern Europe (Protestant Europe) reconciled this when it set out circa 1500 to be industrious. They don’t call it the Protestant work ethnic for nothing. One of Niall Ferguson’s 6 killer apps that enabled the west to beat the rest. This curriculum should be geared to building the Muslim work ethic, Fisibillah, for the sake of Allah.

BTW, of the other 5 killer apps; Pakistan has a consumer society. It needs to leave in creativity encouraging education and give enough funding as the economy improves to reinforce the Scientific method. There need to be a reform to the legal system so that property rights and ease of doing business improve to world standards. There is a need to fund health care and the pharmaceutical industry do that we can produce ad even develop our own treatments to our own health problems, and finally we need to improve rule of law so that contracts can be enforced quickly and so that business can get on with the business of competition with enough other to keep ever improving.


The Chinese have had great success educating the population by rout memorization but have limited creativity, which they are trying to reconcile.


If any further proof of why the foundations of society need to be reinforced and what unchecked liberal philosophy can do to a society, one need only look at the works of Chris Hedges. He documents how the Democratic party in the US has betrayed the working class due to there liberal illusions.

 
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