Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[araz]

I dont think mirrage 3/5 are going to stay for 15 years ... strike by thunders on feb 27th prooved that thunder r good strike fighters ... i think a delivery mechanisim must be under developed around thunder to be used for strategic role ...

The strike in dhotilands was with Mirages with JFTs providing escorts if my info is correct.
A

 

[Shabi1]

The ones that would be retired last should be updated whenever they receive their next overhauls. But these primarily are strike platforms so only need the systems upgrades specializing for this role, no need for multi role or air superiority specific systems as JF-17s are the new workhorses.

 

[Imran Khan]

Whatchu talking about? Pakistan continued to receive quite a bit through aid, including new hardware. Only F-16s took a hit. The US has started cutting aid only since last year, whereas the F-16 story is from 2016.

Nevertheless, India can stop M2K supplies to Pak. France and India have recently upgraded their defence cooperation after all, because France wants Indian help in protecting their overseas territories in IOR and the Pacific.

India can do jack arse

 

[The Accountant]

The strike in dhotilands was with Mirages with JFTs providing escorts if my info is correct.
A

On all the six locations ? I doubt that ... why would we miss a chance to check thunder capabilities in realistic world ?

 

[araz]

On all the six locations ? I doubt that ... why would we miss a chance to check thunder capabilities in realistic world ?

SOWs can currently only be carried by M3/5s.
A

 

[The Accountant]

SOWs can currently only be carried by M3/5s.
A

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paf-...range-smart-weapon-from-jf-17-thunder.607541/

The test was public in march ...

Rek is also part of thunder armament

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

On all the six locations ? I doubt that ... why would we miss a chance to check thunder capabilities in realistic world ?

I asked a PAF pilot. He said Mirage were main Strike packages. F 16s were main escorts. JF 17 kinda did both of them

 

[Path-Finder]

i would argue they need to see past blk3 to blk4 as well. Blk3 is mid-cycle maturity; i would suggest there are at least 3 more to follow thereafter.

BLK-4 maybe can spin into JF18 that is larger than JF 17 with conformal fuel tanks and more powerful engine, something along F16 in size, dimension and capabilities.

 

[denel]

BLK-4 maybe can spin into JF18 that is larger than JF 17 with conformal fuel tanks and more powerful engine, something along F16 in size, dimension and capabilities.

Absolutely. Many of our members have a tendency to take the status quo and live with it; that is not the case evolution is a mandatory aspect of R&D; look at Mirages - had these people taken on the challenge and embarked on parallel upgrade project; it would not only have translated into local Cheetahs but tonnes of other M3/5 users who would have signed on for similar convergence program; that funds could have fueled over into other works. I just shake my head when i write this - just dismay. I hope jf-17 does not become a victim of that short sightedness.

 

[Path-Finder]

Absolutely. Many of our members have a tendency to take the status quo and live with it; that is not the case evolution is a mandatory aspect of R&D; look at Mirages - had these people taken on the challenge and embarked on parallel upgrade project; it would not only have translated into local Cheetahs but tonnes of other M3/5 users who would have signed on for similar convergence program; that funds could have fueled over into other works. I just shake my head when i write this - just dismay. I hope jf-17 does not become a victim of that short sightedness.

No doubt, the shortsighted thinking and vision that led to passing up the opportunity on Cheetah is regrettable.

 

[MystryMan]

absolutely. my concern is as follows. if M3/5 continue to be around for a strategic avenue for next 15yrs - then why not take into account a move towards cheetah plus also get 9k50 engines instead if 9c;atlas had the licence manufacturing rights to it as well.

The other option which people will start to shout at me - would be getting newer airframes from IAI.

IS it still possible to get Cheetah variant. Are there any in storage? If existing airframes are not available, will it be cost prohibitive to revive/buy its production line?

 

[denel]

IS it still possible to get Cheetah variant. Are there any in storage? If existing airframes are not available, will it be cost prohibitive to revive/buy its production line?

It is still possible but it comes up to the question of ROI - If the intent is just for another 10 yrs or build a strategic deep strike off the Mirage 3 - then the concept of Super Cheetah (Cheetah + RD93/33) remains viable. Atlas did have entire rigs for building airframes; the blue prints are already at Kamra - I am wondering why were the Chengdu team not asked to assist in fabricating new airframes with newer materials - those will be much better vs trying to use frames which are already near exhaustion.

 

[TheTallGuy]

What Does Atlas Cheetah C Had/have which Pakistan ROSE I Mirages dont have ??

I am tired of cheetah cheetah none sense...Pakistan ROSE I Mirage was and is better then cheetah C avionics wise.

One should know about Joint collaboration between Israel & South Africa Atlas Cheetah had Elta Radar and Cockpit avionics of IAI Lavi. Atlas Cheetah Had IAI Kfir C2 Wings and strakes..Atlas Cheetah was equipped with (Derby) R-Darter and S-Darter(Python Mk 3) except for HMS which was introduced first time by South Africa and U-Darter 60 degree off bore-sight version. nothing else.

Now when PAF was collaborating with South Africa in 90s south africa was only able to provide Raptor I and Raptor 2. thats it South Africans were also afraid off Sanctions.

PAF ROSE 1 Mirages have same or Better GRIFO M3 Radar and equal Level of avionics as cheetah. South African couldn`t provide the needed missiles R-Darter at that time (Israel Export Controls) did not let us have any thing but PAF prevailed. Got The Mirage 3 ROSE I working just fine and dandy...

SO please we dont need to update Mirages to Cheetah C standard they are already better then Cheetah C.

 

[denel]

What Does Atlas Cheetah C Had/have which Pakistan ROSE I Mirages dont have ??

I am tired of cheetah cheetah none sense...Pakistan ROSE I Mirage was and is better then cheetah C avionics wise.

One should know about Joint collaboration between Israel & South Africa Atlas Cheetah had Elta Radar and Cockpit avionics of IAI Lavi. Atlas Cheetah Had IAI Kfir C2 Wings and strakes..Atlas Cheetah was equipped with (Derby) R-Darter and S-Darter(Python Mk 3) except for HMS which was introduced first time by South Africa and U-Darter 60 degree off bore-sight version. nothing else.

Now when PAF was collaborating with South Africa in 90s south africa was only able to provide Raptor I and Raptor 2. thats it South Africans were also afraid off Sanctions.

PAF ROSE 1 Mirages have same or Better GRIFO M3 Radar and equal Level of avionics as cheetah. South African couldn`t provide the needed missiles R-Darter at that time (Israel Export Controls) did not let us have any thing but PAF prevailed. Got The Mirage 3 ROSE I working just fine and dandy...

SO please we dont need to update Mirages to Cheetah C standard they are already better then Cheetah C.

new airframes, new materials, engines 9k50 etc. please read up on the specs. HMS had been introduced in the 70s's on original ZAF M3s. Cheetah was a complete re-worked aircraft which ROSE is not - it is just an upgrade on existing frame and engines.

 

[MystryMan]

It is still possible but it comes up to the question of ROI - If the intent is just for another 10 yrs or build a strategic deep strike off the Mirage 3 - then the concept of Super Cheetah (Cheetah + RD93/33) remains viable. Atlas did have entire rigs for building airframes; the blue prints are already at Kamra - I am wondering why were the Chengdu team not asked to assist in fabricating new airframes with newer materials - those will be much better vs trying to use frames which are already near exhaustion.

I asked this question because, if PAF only has M3/M5 for strike missions and qualified with SOW, and it doesn't see J-10 and JH-7 as bringing anything new to the table, then why not acquire something which is based on Mirage?

ROI means return on investment?