China’s new military helicopter with innovative design makes 1st flight

[lcloo]

WE probably can guess what it looks like by looking back at past Zhuhai Air shows and Tianjin International Helicopter Expositions.

 

[SD 10]

WE probably can guess what it looks like by looking back at past Zhuhai Air shows and Tianjin International Helicopter Expositions.

can someone post those pics?

 

[lcloo]

These are some of the displays.

 

[lcloo]

And this one is the most unconventional helicopter design. It has rotor blades and fixed wing, a kind of hybrid.

 

[Deino]

PLA in market for Russian Ka-52K heavy attack helicopters

China has struggled to come up with its own combat choppers for its new amphibious assault ships.

amp.scmp.com

A heavy helicopter, corrosion resistant against sea water, and has an ejection seat. The variant China is allegedly seeking to purchase can lift off with a weight of 12.2 tons.

It’s a platform that has great potential for further development and probably best place for China to start with its own heavy lift helicopter to keep up with the US.

Not really??? You are believing Minnie Chan, who is since years the probably most unreliable „source“ on Chinese military news, who’s posting and claiming wrong things more than she’s right??? Really not!!

 

[FuturePAF]

Not really??? You are believing Minnie Chan, who is since years the probably most unreliable „source“ on Chinese military news, who’s posting and claiming wrong things more than she’s right??? Really not!!

I figured the SCMP was a decently reliable source. Well, I guess we will find out with time.

 

[FuturePAF]

These are some of the displays.

View attachment 834616View attachment 834617View attachment 834618

The third picture looks like the Sikorsky-Boeing Defiant design. If design elements from that design are applied to the Ka-52; a single rear facing pusher propeller along with shrouded main rotors it could produce on of the most fastest and slower signature helicopters in operation.

Considering the US’ FARA requirement, a similar common scout/attack/transport platform as the defiant design could give the PLA marines and army’s heliborne cavalry the ability to close the OPDA loop at their adversaries much quicker.

An example would be such a design of attack and transport helicopters being deployed at Hotan, to rapidly reach Ladakh in the event of armed hostilities.

Also, All the real world experience from Ukraine would a long way into addressing any flaws in the design of the Ka-52 and the tactics used to employ them.

Currently the Ka-52’s max altitude is 5500 meters and the Indian Apaches top out at 6100 meters. The highest mountain in Ladakh is 7750 meters high. If an An upgraded design based on the Ka-52, could exceed achieve higher altitudes, maybe not in the 7700-8000 meter range but more then the Apache, it would open up more opportunities of maneuver for them as well as potentially Pakistan if it acquired the platform.

And this one is the most unconventional helicopter design. It has rotor blades and fixed wing, a kind of hybrid.

View attachment 834621

Probably better to just go with what is proposed for the AEW variant of the Osprey then this odd design.

Btw, considering the Z-19 doesn’t seem to be employed as heavily as the Z-10, and may lose out on future contracts, could it be possible we may see the Z-19 have its signature reduced to be similar to the Invictus 360 FARA design, and the made optionally manned, or solely unmanned. It would probably be the largest unmanned helicopter and could therefore probably have the longest range. Making it ideal to put in risky scouting missions.

 

[S10]

PLA in market for Russian Ka-52K heavy attack helicopters

China has struggled to come up with its own combat choppers for its new amphibious assault ships.

amp.scmp.com

A heavy helicopter, corrosion resistant against sea water, and has an ejection seat. The variant China is allegedly seeking to purchase can lift off with a weight of 12.2 tons.

It’s a platform that has great potential for further development and probably best place for China to start with its own heavy lift helicopter to keep up with the US.

Given how poorly Ka-52 performed in Ukraine, I don't think the deal will materialize.

 

[FuturePAF]

Given how poorly Ka-52 performed in Ukraine, I don't think the deal will materialize.

The original Su-27s China procured in the 90s became the foundation upon which the Flanker fleet of China started. Procuring the 12 ton capable Ka-52 is only a starting point. Improved derivative designs should be a given if China heads in this direction.

 

[Deino]

PLA in market for Russian Ka-52K heavy attack helicopters

China has struggled to come up with its own combat choppers for its new amphibious assault ships.

amp.scmp.com

A heavy helicopter, corrosion resistant against sea water, and has an ejection seat. The variant China is allegedly seeking to purchase can lift off with a weight of 12.2 tons.

It’s a platform that has great potential for further development and probably best place for China to start with its own heavy lift helicopter to keep up with the US.

This is the problem ...

 

[Beast]

The original Su-27s China procured in the 90s became the foundation upon which the Flanker fleet of China started. Procuring the 12 ton capable Ka-52 is only a starting point. Improved derivative designs should be a given if China heads in this direction.

Ka-52 is no Su-27. Don't be delusion. Su-27 is a proven design with long range and big but retains high agility airframe. Serving in many nation while Ka-52 has how many export and serve in how many countries?

 

[FuturePAF]

Ka-52 is no Su-27. Don't be delusion. Su-27 is a proven design with long range and big but retains high agility airframe. Serving in many nation while Ka-52 has how many export and serve in how many countries?

The Ka-52 may not be operated by a lot of countries but other Kamov designs have been exported, including to China. These other designs were acquired when they were the preferred platform for the role, particularly in the naval domain. The capabilities of the Ka-52K as reported in an article from Janes last year are of Russia’s first naval attack Helicopter.

A 12 ton naval attack helicopter is more of a niche requirement then an air superiority 4th generation fighter. Having said that only Egypt and Russia operates the Ka-50/52.

@Deino
Sure, all of it is speculation if the news reports by SCMP and a Hong Kong based tv channel’s (Phoenix tv) video of a factory tour are to be believed.

It has been a number of year since the Z-10 became operation with the PLA, but If the PLAN and the PLA marines don’t adopt the 8 ton Z-10 onboard the Type 075 LHD, it maybe due to them looking for a more suitable platform (initially imported and probably eventually an indigenous derivative) to provide air support to their troops.

One issue with PLA watching is alot of projects are only revealed when they are in the prototype stage. The scale model of the coaxial rotor design may just be another model for an arms expo or air show, or maybe a hint of an active projects possibly like the stealth Z-20 design.

 

[Beast]

The Ka-52 may not be operated by a lot of countries but other Kamov designs have been exported, including to China. These other designs were acquired when they were the preferred platform for the role, particularly in the naval domain. The capabilities of the Ka-52K as reported in an article from Janes last year are of Russia’s first naval attack Helicopter.

A 12 ton naval attack helicopter is more of a niche requirement then an air superiority 4th generation fighter. Having said that only Egypt and Russia operates the Ka-50/52.

@Deino
Sure, all of it is speculation if the news reports by SCMP and a Hong Kong based tv channel’s (Phoenix tv) video of a factory tour are to be believed.

China already operate their own Z-10 onboard LHD and LDP. PLA is not interested in KA-52. So far no firm interest from PLANAF for it.

 

[FuturePAF]

China already operate their own Z-10 onboard LHD and LDP. PLA is not interested in KA-52. So far no firm interest from PLANAF for it.

You maybe right, but speculation amongst western PLA watchers still seems to be their is an interest in the Ka-52. Like I said, they maybe wrong, but why do you think they hold this view? is there a requirement that may-52 meets that the z-10 does not?

Also, some of these PLA watchers aren’t just amateur military observers, but from think tanks and former western military members.

 

[lcloo]

The Ka-52 may not be operated by a lot of countries but other Kamov designs have been exported, including to China. These other designs were acquired when they were the preferred platform for the role, particularly in the naval domain. The capabilities of the Ka-52K as reported in an article from Janes last year are of Russia’s first naval attack Helicopter.

A 12 ton naval attack helicopter is more of a niche requirement then an air superiority 4th generation fighter. Having said that only Egypt and Russia operates the Ka-50/52.

@Deino
Sure, all of it is speculation if the news reports by SCMP and a Hong Kong based tv channel’s (Phoenix tv) video of a factory tour are to be believed.

It has been a number of year since the Z-10 became operation with the PLA, but If the PLAN and the PLA marines don’t adopt the 8 ton Z-10 onboard the Type 075 LHD, it maybe due to them looking for a more suitable platform (initially imported and probably eventually an indigenous derivative) to provide air support to their troops.

One issue with PLA watching is alot of projects are only revealed when they are in the prototype stage. The scale model of the coaxial rotor design may just be another model for an arms expo or air show, or maybe a hint of an active projects possibly like the stealth Z-20 design.

I am seeing that the need of heavy armed manned attack helicopter is losing its priority if China's UCAV programe is gaining pace in development, especially in AI mode.

Large, fast and steath unmanned fixed wing and rotor wing drones can easily take over the roles of heavy attack helicopters of current days.

I believe the out-come of vulnerability of attack helicopters to manpad and short range SAMs in Russian-Ukraine war may shape the development of future attack helicopters or rotor wing drones.

3 weeks from now in Zhuhai Airshow, we should be able to see new toys from AVICopter and other research institutions/universities. May be from there we can see clearer the future development trend of attack helicopters in China.