Wings Of The Red Star "The Foxbat Deception"

[Zabaniyah]

A detailed history of the development of the MiG-25 "Foxbat", as well as it's implications

 

[Super Falcon]

good figther jet but never sold to any country i think it is good in interceptor role but i think F 16 was superior in that era aginst foxbat which made this programme little fail

 

[John Doe]

good figther jet but never sold to any country i think it is good in interceptor role but i think F 16 was superior in that era aginst foxbat which made this programme little fail

Didn't the Russians sell the Foxbat to the Indian Air Force?

And as far as the F-16's superiority over the Foxbat, when the IAF flew it's FOxbat over Lahore, no F-16 could intercept it, right?
Read the whole story below:

Vayu Sena - IAF MiG-25R incursion over Pakistan in 1997

 

[bandit]

Didn't the Russians sell the Foxbat to the Indian Air Force?

And as far as the F-16's superiority over the Foxbat, when the IAF flew it's FOxbat over Lahore, no F-16 could intercept it, right?
Read the whole story below:

Vayu Sena - IAF MiG-25R incursion over Pakistan in 1997

I guesss it flew over Islamabad and made the sonic boom to make a point that no Pkistani aircraft can touch it there.

Too bad it was retired, atleast had a nuisance value.

Last May (1997), an Indian Force (IAF) Mikoyan MiG-25RB Foxbat-B reconnaissance aircraft created a furore when the pilot flew faster than Mach 2 over Pakistani territory following a reconnaissance mission into Pakistan airspace. The Foxbat broke the sound barrier while flying at an altitude of around 65,000 feet, otherwise the mission would have remained covert, at least to the general public. The Pakistan Government considered the breaking of the sound barrier as deliberate: to make the point that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has no aircraft in its inventory which can come close to the cruising height of the MiG-25 (up to 74,000 feet).

However, from one of PAF's Forward Operating Bases, radar traced the intruder and the F-16As scrambled. Sources in the PAF said that there was no need to intercept a plane flying at the altitude of 65,000 feet as the F-16 can reach an operating ceiling of 55,000 feet.

India denied the incident but Pakistan's Foreign Minister, Gohar Ayub Khan, believed that the Foxbat photographed strategic installations near the Capital, Islamabad. Interestingly, the two countries signed a 'Prevention of Air Space Violations' agreement in April 1991, which recognized that PAF and IAF aircraft operate near each other's airspace. The agreement permitted overflights and landings by military aircraft, but certainly not airborne reconnaissance.

The Indian Foxbat for the unbelievers

 

[Birbal]

Good reconnaissance aircraft. But the Mig-31 completely superseded it as the ultimate interceptor aircraft.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Didn't the Russians sell the Foxbat to the Indian Air Force?

They sold it to a lot of Air Forces around the world besides the IAF.

And as far as the F-16's superiority over the Foxbat, when the IAF flew it's FOxbat over Lahore, no F-16 could intercept it, right?

It is because the MIG25 was at best a rocket similar to the F104 that was operated by the PAF. Tt could fly at high altitudes and at very fast speeds making it very hard to intercept the plane. If the aircraft was engaged 1 on 1 against the F16, there is a very low probability that the MIG25 would have won the duel as the F16 was much more agile. The Americans and the Israelis were smart, they found it much more effective to design missiles that were much faster than this plane.

I guesss it flew over Islamabad and made the sonic boom to make a point that no Pkistani aircraft can touch it there.

Too bad it was retired, atleast had a nuisance value.

That was than, we are talking about the present. Now the PAF pilot would need to cue up the target on his JHMCS and let rip the AMRAAM, the MIG25 could outrun an aircraft but there is no way it can outrun an AIM120C. MIG25 was retired because it added no strategic value to IAF's doctrine, those days were long gone when the MIG25 could fly high and fast over Pakistan's territory and get away with it.

 

[bandit]

They sold it to a lot of Air Forces around the world besides the IAF.

He wasn't asking a question....

It is because the MIG25 was at best a rocket similar to the F104 that was operated by the PAF. Tt could fly at high altitudes and at very fast speeds making it very hard to intercept the plane. If the aircraft was engaged 1 on 1 against the F16, there is a very low probability that the MIG25 would have won the duel as the F16 was much more agile. The Americans and the Israelis were smart, they found it much more effective to design missiles that were much faster than this plane.

Why would a Mig-25 do a one-on-one with an F-16?
That is not its strength. There are better planes Like MKI and Mig-29'savailable to handle F-16's in superior numbers.

That was than, we are talking about the present.

We were talking about than, Mig-25 has already been retired, unless you wanna send some F-16's shooting AIM's at museums now

Now the PAF pilot would need to cue up the target on his JHMCS and let rip the AMRAAM, the MIG25 could outrun an aircraft but there is no way it can outrun an AIM120C. MIG25 was retired because it added no strategic value to IAF's doctrine, those days were long gone when the MIG25 could fly high and fast over Pakistan's territory and get away with it.

Of course, lets assume the hypothetical situation with JHMCS and AIM120.
AIM 120C TOP Speed is Mach 4. Avereage speed is lower.. (Even lower while climbing)
Foxbat Top speed is Mach 3.2 .

The foxbat would already be 20,000 feet higher than the F-16 firing the AIM-120 and flying away at 3.2 Mach, how much chance do you believe the AIM 120 has catching up to the foxbat while having to climb 20000 feet lower than Mach 4 obviously?

Owned

 

[Birbal]

It is because the MIG25 was at best a rocket similar to the F104 that was operated by the PAF. Tt could fly at high altitudes and at very fast speeds making it very hard to intercept the plane. If the aircraft was engaged 1 on 1 against the F16, there is a very low probability that the MIG25 would have won the duel as the F16 was much more agile. The Americans and the Israelis were smart, they found it much more effective to design missiles that were much faster than this plane.

The Mig-25 wasn't designed for combat with fighters and entered service 8 years before the F-16. Still, I wouldn't be so sure about how it would fair against an F-16. In Operation Desert Storm, the Mig-25 was the one Iraqi aircraft that caused major problems for the coalition air forces, and only 2 of them were lost to F-15s while shooting down 1 F-18.

That was than, we are talking about the present. Now the PAF pilot would need to cue up the target on his JHMCS and let rip the AMRAAM, the MIG25 could outrun an aircraft but there is no way it can outrun an AIM120C. MIG25 was retired because it added no strategic value to IAF's doctrine, those days were long gone when the MIG25 could fly high and fast over Pakistan's territory and get away with it.

Yeah not happening. Considering the altitude difference and the fact that the AIM-120 would have to accelerate to overtake the Mig-25, you won't be able to get a hit unless you line things up very well. The only reason the Mig-25 was retired was that the operations costs were no longer justified and satellites made much more sense.

 

[Zabaniyah]

The MiG-25 wasn't meant for dog-fights. MiG-25 was a high speed, high altitude interceptor, whereas the F-16 is a multi role fighter. Big difference!

All the MiG-25 can do is move in a straight line while moving at Mach 2.5. It's all about speed, along with data link transfers.

 

[harpoon]

Mig 25 was made to intercept 'Valkyre' which never reached production line.

 

[Birbal]

Mig 25 was made to intercept 'Valkyre' which never reached production line.

But the Valkyrie related A-12 and then SR-71 did enter service. The Mig-25 was able to intercept it, sort of. The SR-71 would manage to enter somewhat into Soviet airspace before having to turn away. The Mig-25 interceptions would have to be carefully setup to avoid running out of fuel and make sure they would get a lock. Then they put the Mig-31 in service and that mean't an end to the SR-71 for good.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Of course, lets assume the hypothetical situation with JHMCS and AIM120.
AIM 120C TOP Speed is Mach 4. Avereage speed is lower.. (Even lower while climbing)
Foxbat Top speed is Mach 3.2 .

The foxbat would already be 20,000 feet higher than the F-16 firing the AIM-120 and flying away at 3.2 Mach, how much chance do you believe the AIM 120 has catching up to the foxbat while having to climb 20000 feet lower than Mach 4 obviously?

Are you certain that the MiG-25 can maintain a constant velocity of Mach 3.2? Seems like we have a lot of Wikipedia fans

 

[nForce]

Are you certain that the MiG-25 can maintain a constant velocity of Mach 3.2? Seems like we have a lot of Wikipedia fans

That is not the cruising speed.thats the top speed.If a Mig-25 does a mach 3.2 for sustained time period then the whole engine has to be changed after that.I vaguely remember such a case where perhaps an Egyptian or Syrian Mig-25 escaped some Israeli jets by doing a mach 3 ride.

---------- Post added at 05:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:32 PM ----------

Hope you all will enjoy this video.A Mig-25 flying as high as almost 3 times of the height of Mount Everest.

 

[Zabaniyah]

^^^Yeah, that was my point.

I already watched it. Very beautiful vid!

 

[bandit]

Are you certain that the MiG-25 can maintain a constant velocity of Mach 3.2? Seems like we have a lot of Wikipedia fans

I thought people would reason out that for themselves but, oh well.

The MiG has to sustain the top speed of 3.2 probably 20 miles or so to escape an AIM 120 fired from below in a chase mode. Doesn't really matter if it goes loitering after that now does it?
OTOH the AIM would have to sustain a greater speed to climb and chase the MiG, get it?