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What to do in a Fight or Flight situation

H. Dawary

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So I came across this video and wanted to discuss but also wanted to hear some thoughts in return.

First things first, watch this video first and then we will discuss...



and take a look at this chart...
Situational_Awareness2_0.jpg




So what happened...? Perhaps many of you have not been in this type of situation, but this is a classic fight or flight situation.

Person 1 (P1) is the guy with the cap
Person 2 (P2) is the capless guy

P1 approached P2 in an aggressive manner and got into his personal space, threateningly. At this point both P1 and P2 are in level 4 (High Alert).

Now by law (not sure in your country), you are legally allowed to strike a person down if they are within your personal space in this manner.

The optimal choice for P2 could have been to strike first, or take a step back and tell P1 to back off. Should P1 continue to approach, then necessary force is then required until P1 is neutralised.

But I would like to ask all, what in your opinion is the best course of action in such a situation when reason has gone out the window?
 
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He did the right thing to nullify the threat. Great work.

In the US, until someone uses force on you or attempts to (pulls a gun, weapon, or tries to swing,) you cannot physically attack someone.
That is only inside the US. Outside, they kill people in the name of preventive/pre-emptive strikes.
 
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He did the right thing to nullify the threat. Great work.

In the US, until someone uses force on you or attempts to (pulls a gun, weapon, or tries to swing,) you cannot physically attack someone.

Wow! Are you serious? How about if you keep backing off while holding your hand out telling them to back off, I am sure there would be justification then...? if still not then I suppose run at that point LOL.

That is only inside the US. Outside, they kill people in the name of preventive/pre-emptive strikes.

Kill? That is a bit too much...
 
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Different strategies for different people.
If he were taliban, he would have blown himself & takes that guy with him.
P 1 was agressive. He goes in your territory Then you Just head down, asking him to cool or say fake sorry, & punch him hard at right moment. This risk is worth.
 
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Different strategies for different people.
If he were taliban, he would have blown himself & takes that guy with him.
P 1 was agressive. He goes in your territory Then you Just head down, asking him to cool or say fake sorry, & punch him hard at right moment. This risk is worth.

Forget Taliban lol

Wouldn't the optimal choice be to avoid violence as best as possible until it is fully necessary. Both P1 and P2 are at level 4 (High Alert). If I were P2, I would keep P1 away from my personal space as best as I could and back off, but if they are relentless then violence is unfortunately in my opinion then necessary.
 
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Person B gave him a chance to hit first its not good. He could have been killed in first attack if intention was to kill.

So its always better to strike first.

However all the sympathies of the audience will be with person b definitely cuz he is the victim now and has every right to strike back with full force . The fight and escalation ladder lies in 2nd persons hands now.

But i gotta admit if player B struck first that would have been the right move.

But mostly in nature weak parties tend to strike first miscalculated strikes and then the responder who is almost always stronger gets his chance
 
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He did the right thing to nullify the threat. Great work.

In the US, until someone uses force on you or attempts to (pulls a gun, weapon, or tries to swing,) you cannot physically attack someone.

Pretty much if somebody takes a swing at you they just gave you the green light to hit them enough times to send them to the ground. A jury in an assault case would applaud you.

HOWEVER I think he kicked the guy while he was on the ground and that's a HUGE no-no. The jury would roast you alive for that.
 
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Pretty much if somebody takes a swing at you they just gave you the green light to hit them enough times to send them to the ground. A jury in an assault case would applaud you.

HOWEVER I think he kicked the guy while he was on the ground and that's a HUGE no-no. The jury would roast you alive for that.
A person on the ground can get back up and then beat. One has to neutralise the threat fully and ensure that one is safe
 
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:mod:LONG POST INCOMING::mod:

I have talked about this at length, it's not as easy as to ask someone "what would you do" your fight or flight reflex is centuries of genetic coding it's not something you can do away with.

For instance lest start with the startle response that every animal has:

Startle response exists in all animals and anyone with any martial arts training or military background will tell you that having a startle response is a good thing. In a survival situation the animal part of your brain "the amygdala" takes over and the startle is actually because of a sudden flood of adrenaline in your body, this flood can cause the fight, flight or freeze response.

During this time your nose will flare to allow more oxygen to enter the body and supply your muscles the burst needed, your heart will pump faster in order to get all that oxygen rich blood to the muscle groups that need them, your eyes will tunnel vision, your hearing becomes acute and in certain scenarios you may lose control of your bowls as your body sheds excess fluids and "weight" in order to become faster in case you need to retreat!

Examples of stimuli:

Auditory:

Visual / tactile: Stimuli:

You will see that in both videos there are extreme response and delayed responses depending on the persons "Situational Awareness" at the time. In extreme responses the person will flinch backwards, close their eyes, their nostrils will flare to allow more air to enter the body, their hands will automatically retract to the chest ready to protect the vital parts of the body and in micro seconds their eyes will track the perceived threat, this all happens in seconds!

In animals:


Another example for lack of situational awareness, lack of stimuli lack of startle flinch mechanism:
18j566gfdnabnjpg.jpg


Here you can see people who had "situational awareness" at the time, saw the bat coming and their bodies took action to avoid the threat, this ranges from ducking 0.5 seconds to 2 seconds, primal flinch "hands covering head/face" 0.3 to 0.5 seconds and no response, bat to the face.

Another example of ZERO situational awareness vs. someone with awareness of his or her surroundings!
09BatMan_xp-master768.jpg


Martial Artist Tony Blaur did a fascinating study on startle response and create a tactical response program for Law Enforcement called SPEAR: Spontaneous Protection Enabling Accelerated Response. He talks about his findings in this video:


PART 1...
 
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Part 2...

Too much stimuli and adrenaline can actually be toxic and open up calcium receptors in the hearts muscle tissues which in turn stop the heart from contracting correctly which leads to Ventricular Fibrillation in which the heart stops contracting and just dances around your body like jelly on a plate: See video for example


Now lets come on to the subject of personal safety:

This is one subject I am very passionate about so I would like to add my two cents if I may! Personal safety and security is down to common sense. It's all down to situational awareness, to begin with, followed by impact factors and your capacity and ability to respond to the threat.

Unfortunately, there are not a lot of areas left in our world where you are immune to threats to your personal safety. With increases in crime such as theft, rape, terrorism and assault, it is in our best interest to pay attention.

This post is not covering the entire subject of self-defence, it may give you some food for thought. It is also important to mention that whilst however no one is totally immune from possibly becoming a victim of a crime, learning how to be more alert and aware of your surroundings and keeping an eye out for signs of trouble is a good start.

As any good self-defence trainer will tell you, the best self-defence is to avoid the situation entirely. So let's get started, first, we are going to look at how the mind of criminal works and then compare this to the thought process of the victim:

The mental process of a criminal are broken into three simple steps:
crime-triangle-final-simple.gif

1. First, a target is selected

2. A plan is made

3. The crime is committed


A victim is at a disadvantage because they have to go through a four step process:

1. They have to be aware of their surroundings 2. They have to evaluate the situation 3. They have to think of a counter plan 4. Finally, take action on the plan.

As a potential victim goes through these four steps, they are running through the phases of the “personal safety spectrum”.

This system is a simplified version of the “Cooper Colour Code” which is named after the person who developed it, Colonel Jeff Cooper of the United States Marine Corps, the colour code was designed to teach US Marines about maintaining mental readiness and how to respond to threats based on severity and exposure.

The personal safety spectrum, which is what I am going to be talking about is a more simplified version designed for personal safety awareness:

Here is the list of the conditions “phases” of the personal safety spectrum:

1. Condition Grey: In a safe place such as your home, and are not concerned with your surroundings.

2. Condition Yellow: When you are outside driving or walking down the street, you should be in Yellow condition. You should be taking in information, assessing risks. The reason you upgrade from condition grey to yellow is because you have left the comfort of a controlled environment, such as your “home” and as such have a greater need to pay attention to the environment around you.

For example:

You are proceeding down a sidewalk, a person approaches and asks “what time is it”? At this point, most people will look at their watch, this is actually a common distraction technique used to cause inattention to your surroundings.

3. Condition Red: In this condition you should be ALERT, look at the person/threat and decide what you will do and your decision, the act upon that decision. Once you are ready to act, you upgrade to Condition Green.

4. Condition Green: When you see an individual approaching you and decide you don’t wish contact, change your direction by moving away from the individual.

5. Condition White: This is a state of panic and you don’t know what to do.

So you can see, that it pays to be alert and aware of your surroundings as you may never know what may be around the corner. For example, if somebody approaches you, there are four things you need to be thinking about:

1. Hands: Where are their hands and what are they doing with their hands. 55% of our communication is through body language, for example: if someone makes a fist, chances are they are going to hit someone with it. But if they don’t have anything in their hands, then you should start looking for the second thing which is weapons.

2. Weapons: Guns, Knives or anything within that person's reach that can be used against you. Also known as a weapon of opportunity.

3. Friends and Associates: Is the person alone or is he in a group? Remember that many crimes are committed in pairs.

4. Escape: Finally consider your options to escape, where are you going to run to, are you boxed in, are you blocking the exit of the suspect? Remember that cornered criminals are more likely to use violence, so keep this in mind when considering an escape route.

Non verbal pre-attack indicators:

Humans like animals give out non verbal unconscious signals to display intent and emotions such as compassion, love, anger, hostility. These signals, leaked out of the unconscious facet of the criminal mind and displayed via body language.

This video shows a few pre attack indicators to watch out for:


Guard your personal space, When approached by someone whom you do not trust always try to keep him/her outside of what is referred to as your “Intimate space”, simply put, keep strangers who approach you and you don’t trust at an arms length. There are three kinds of Spaces you need to be concerned with when it comes to personal safety:

68cfbf_71957d4bc7cb4c3582fe796397e8b918~mv2.webp


1. Intimate Space: 0-1.5 Feet (The only people you should allow into your intimate space are people you trust such as your friends and family)


2. Personal Space: 1.5 Feet – 4 Feet (This is the ideal range to deal with strangers, it makes it difficult for someone to try and grab your clothing, or throw a punch. You should always try to maintain a distance out of “arms reach” when dealing with strangers you may feel are a threat. This space should allow you enough of a gap to quickly run through the four steps to be able to protect yourself.

3. Social Space and public space: 4 Feet – 12 Feet ( This is the distance you should aim to keep from people in public, remember that even at 4 Feet, you are still maintaining the “Arms length” distance from a potential threat.

Observation: This is a very important skill to learn and develop, not only will help keep you safe, it can also help when completing a FIR and if you notice anything out of the ordinary during your day to day activities such as a suspicious car or package, or even an unusual smell coming from something unexpected you can report it to the authorities.

https://www.samaa.tv/video/2017/02/cctv-footage-of-gun-attack-on-police-van/

Three simple rules:

  1. Stay Alert: Referred to as Situational Awareness
  2. Avoid Risky Situations: No need to be a Hero
  3. Trust Your Instincts: If it does not feel right…avoid it
Responding to an Attack or Robbery:

Robbery: First, decide if you are being robbed or attacked

If you are being robbed…do not resist

Give the robber what he or she wants

Remember…your goal is to avoid injury

Do not carry anything of value that you are not willing to lose

Second, if you are being attacked…decide NOW how you are going to respond: Safety in these situations is a personal choice, because only you can decide how to respond

Points to Consider if Being Attacked

  1. What is the intent of the suspect?
  2. Determine if a weapon is involved
  3. Is there one suspect or two?
  4. How do you normally respond to threats?
  5. What is your physical ability?
  6. Where is the suspect trying to take you?
  7. Do you really want to go(fight)?

If you don't know any real self-defence and have never had any martial arts training I would strongly recommend looking into Tony Blauer's SPEAR system. It is a very good bridge skill and is taught to police all over the world:


Other good self defence martial arts include Karate, Brazilian jiu-jitsu & Krav Maga, although I cannot vouch for the quality of trainers in Pakistan.

JUST REMEMBER WHATEVER YOU DO, YOUR GOAL HERE IS SURVIVAL

After an Attack or Robbery:

  • Do not feel guilty or embarrassed
  • Go to a safe place to report the crime
  • Preserve all physical evidence
  • Call the police IMMEDIATELY
  • Remember…you can do everything right and still become the victim of a crime
In Summary: Remember that there are five colour codes of mental awareness/response in the personal safety spectrum. It is very important that you keep in mind that awareness and avoidance are the best self-defence strategies. If you can avoid the risk, it is better than mitigating or managing the impact later on.

Maintain an awareness of your surroundings, “if it doesn't feel right” trust your instincts and do not hesitate. If you cannot avoid the situation, then mentally prepare, have a plan and execute with full conviction and purpose. Practice these skills on a day to day basis when travelling to and from work or going shopping, ultimately, the more aware you are, the more likely you will prevent an attack.

(c) Rescueranger 2020 - All Rights Reserved - :agree:
 
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A person on the ground can get back up and then beat. One has to neutralise the threat fully and ensure that one is safe

Kicking somebody with your shoes on is "assault and battery with a dangerous weapon". You may as well have hit him with a baseball bat while he was on the ground.

You don't want to go before a jury and try and explain that while you had an unarmed guy (the same relative size as you BTW) down on the ground you were clubbing him to make sure he didn't get up. You'd have to prove he intended serious bodily harm to you. Good luck to that.
 
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I think I'm America you cannot assault first. You will be charged if you assault first. Be alert and let the other guy assault and then respond with massive force.
 
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Part 2...

Too much stimuli and adrenaline can actually be toxic and open up calcium receptors in the hearts muscle tissues which in turn stop the heart from contracting correctly which leads to Ventricular Fibrillation in which the heart stops contracting and just dances around your body like jelly on a plate: See video for example


Now lets come on to the subject of personal safety:

This is one subject I am very passionate about so I would like to add my two cents if I may! Personal safety and security is down to common sense. It's all down to situational awareness, to begin with, followed by impact factors and your capacity and ability to respond to the threat.

Unfortunately, there are not a lot of areas left in our world where you are immune to threats to your personal safety. With increases in crime such as theft, rape, terrorism and assault, it is in our best interest to pay attention.

This post is not covering the entire subject of self-defence, it may give you some food for thought. It is also important to mention that whilst however no one is totally immune from possibly becoming a victim of a crime, learning how to be more alert and aware of your surroundings and keeping an eye out for signs of trouble is a good start.

As any good self-defence trainer will tell you, the best self-defence is to avoid the situation entirely. So let's get started, first, we are going to look at how the mind of criminal works and then compare this to the thought process of the victim:

The mental process of a criminal are broken into three simple steps:
crime-triangle-final-simple.gif

1. First, a target is selected

2. A plan is made

3. The crime is committed


A victim is at a disadvantage because they have to go through a four step process:

1. They have to be aware of their surroundings 2. They have to evaluate the situation 3. They have to think of a counter plan 4. Finally, take action on the plan.

As a potential victim goes through these four steps, they are running through the phases of the “personal safety spectrum”.

This system is a simplified version of the “Cooper Colour Code” which is named after the person who developed it, Colonel Jeff Cooper of the United States Marine Corps, the colour code was designed to teach US Marines about maintaining mental readiness and how to respond to threats based on severity and exposure.

The personal safety spectrum, which is what I am going to be talking about is a more simplified version designed for personal safety awareness:

Here is the list of the conditions “phases” of the personal safety spectrum:

1. Condition Grey: In a safe place such as your home, and are not concerned with your surroundings.

2. Condition Yellow: When you are outside driving or walking down the street, you should be in Yellow condition. You should be taking in information, assessing risks. The reason you upgrade from condition grey to yellow is because you have left the comfort of a controlled environment, such as your “home” and as such have a greater need to pay attention to the environment around you.

For example:

You are proceeding down a sidewalk, a person approaches and asks “what time is it”? At this point, most people will look at their watch, this is actually a common distraction technique used to cause inattention to your surroundings.

3. Condition Red: In this condition you should be ALERT, look at the person/threat and decide what you will do and your decision, the act upon that decision. Once you are ready to act, you upgrade to Condition Green.

4. Condition Green: When you see an individual approaching you and decide you don’t wish contact, change your direction by moving away from the individual.

5. Condition White: This is a state of panic and you don’t know what to do.

So you can see, that it pays to be alert and aware of your surroundings as you may never know what may be around the corner. For example, if somebody approaches you, there are four things you need to be thinking about:

1. Hands: Where are their hands and what are they doing with their hands. 55% of our communication is through body language, for example: if someone makes a fist, chances are they are going to hit someone with it. But if they don’t have anything in their hands, then you should start looking for the second thing which is weapons.

2. Weapons: Guns, Knives or anything within that person's reach that can be used against you. Also known as a weapon of opportunity.

3. Friends and Associates: Is the person alone or is he in a group? Remember that many crimes are committed in pairs.

4. Escape: Finally consider your options to escape, where are you going to run to, are you boxed in, are you blocking the exit of the suspect? Remember that cornered criminals are more likely to use violence, so keep this in mind when considering an escape route.

Non verbal pre-attack indicators:

Humans like animals give out non verbal unconscious signals to display intent and emotions such as compassion, love, anger, hostility. These signals, leaked out of the unconscious facet of the criminal mind and displayed via body language.

This video shows a few pre attack indicators to watch out for:


Guard your personal space, When approached by someone whom you do not trust always try to keep him/her outside of what is referred to as your “Intimate space”, simply put, keep strangers who approach you and you don’t trust at an arms length. There are three kinds of Spaces you need to be concerned with when it comes to personal safety:

68cfbf_71957d4bc7cb4c3582fe796397e8b918~mv2.webp


1. Intimate Space: 0-1.5 Feet (The only people you should allow into your intimate space are people you trust such as your friends and family)


2. Personal Space: 1.5 Feet – 4 Feet (This is the ideal range to deal with strangers, it makes it difficult for someone to try and grab your clothing, or throw a punch. You should always try to maintain a distance out of “arms reach” when dealing with strangers you may feel are a threat. This space should allow you enough of a gap to quickly run through the four steps to be able to protect yourself.

3. Social Space and public space: 4 Feet – 12 Feet ( This is the distance you should aim to keep from people in public, remember that even at 4 Feet, you are still maintaining the “Arms length” distance from a potential threat.

Observation: This is a very important skill to learn and develop, not only will help keep you safe, it can also help when completing a FIR and if you notice anything out of the ordinary during your day to day activities such as a suspicious car or package, or even an unusual smell coming from something unexpected you can report it to the authorities.

https://www.samaa.tv/video/2017/02/cctv-footage-of-gun-attack-on-police-van/

Three simple rules:

  1. Stay Alert: Referred to as Situational Awareness
  2. Avoid Risky Situations: No need to be a Hero
  3. Trust Your Instincts: If it does not feel right…avoid it
Responding to an Attack or Robbery:

Robbery: First, decide if you are being robbed or attacked

If you are being robbed…do not resist

Give the robber what he or she wants

Remember…your goal is to avoid injury

Do not carry anything of value that you are not willing to lose

Second, if you are being attacked…decide NOW how you are going to respond: Safety in these situations is a personal choice, because only you can decide how to respond

Points to Consider if Being Attacked

  1. What is the intent of the suspect?
  2. Determine if a weapon is involved
  3. Is there one suspect or two?
  4. How do you normally respond to threats?
  5. What is your physical ability?
  6. Where is the suspect trying to take you?
  7. Do you really want to go(fight)?

If you don't know any real self-defence and have never had any martial arts training I would strongly recommend looking into Tony Blauer's SPEAR system. It is a very good bridge skill and is taught to police all over the world:


Other good self defence martial arts include Karate, Brazilian jiu-jitsu & Krav Maga, although I cannot vouch for the quality of trainers in Pakistan.

JUST REMEMBER WHATEVER YOU DO, YOUR GOAL HERE IS SURVIVAL

After an Attack or Robbery:

  • Do not feel guilty or embarrassed
  • Go to a safe place to report the crime
  • Preserve all physical evidence
  • Call the police IMMEDIATELY
  • Remember…you can do everything right and still become the victim of a crime
In Summary: Remember that there are five colour codes of mental awareness/response in the personal safety spectrum. It is very important that you keep in mind that awareness and avoidance are the best self-defence strategies. If you can avoid the risk, it is better than mitigating or managing the impact later on.

Maintain an awareness of your surroundings, “if it doesn't feel right” trust your instincts and do not hesitate. If you cannot avoid the situation, then mentally prepare, have a plan and execute with full conviction and purpose. Practice these skills on a day to day basis when travelling to and from work or going shopping, ultimately, the more aware you are, the more likely you will prevent an attack.

(c) Rescueranger 2020 - All Rights Reserved - :agree:

Very great post, your information and knowledge is much appreciated. I hope you don't mind, but in the near future I will ask some more questions regarding this... Once again, thank you for the information.
 
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