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UN Backs Probe into Legality of US Drone Strikes and Civilian Casualties

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US drone attacks in Pakistan: UN backs probe into civilian casualties
By AFP
Published: June 7, 2012

I see indiscriminate killings, injuries of civilians in any circumstances as human rights violations, says Navi Pillay.

ISLAMABAD: The UN human rights chief on Thursday called for a UN investigation into US drone strikes in Pakistan, questioning their legality and saying they kill innocent civilians.

UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay made the remarks at the end of a four-day visit to the country, where US drone strikes have on average targeted militants once every four days under US President Barack Obama.

Islamabad is understood to have approved the strikes on al Qaeda and Taliban targets in the past. But the government has become increasingly energetic in its public opposition as relations with Washington have nosedived.

“Drone attacks do raise serious questions about compliance with international law,” Pillay told a news conference in Islamabad.

“The principle of distinction and proportionality and ensuring accountability for any failure to comply with international law is also difficult when drone attacks are conducted outside the military chain of command and beyond effective and transparent mechanisms of civilian or military control,” she said.
She said the attacks violate human rights.

“I see the indiscriminate killings and injuries of civilians in any circumstances as human rights violations.”
The UN human rights chief provided no statistics but called for an investigation into civilian casualties, which she said were difficult to track.

“Because these attacks are indiscriminate it is very, very difficult to track the numbers of people who have been killed,” she said.

“I suggested to the government that they invite the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Summary or Arbitrary Executions and he will be able to investigate some of the incidents.”

She said UN chief Ban Ki-moon had urged states to be “more transparent” about circumstances in which drones are used and take necessary precautions to ensure that the attacks involving drones comply with applicable international law.

“So therefore I stress the importance of investigating such cases and ensuring compensation and redress to the victims.”

Washington releases few details about its covert drone programme in Pakistan but on Wednesday US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta described them as self-defence and promised that they would continue to target al Qaeda in Pakistan.

US drone attacks in Pakistan: UN backs probe into civilian casualties – The Express Tribune

This comes on the heels of the Amnesty International statement:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/war-ag...sty-says-obl-raid-drone-strikes-unlawful.html

@Solomon 2:

I believe this puts to rest your theory that there is any kind of 'covert UNSC authorization for US military operations inside Pakistan', and that UNSCR 1373 somehow authorizes US military operations inside Pakistan.
 
Unfortunately, the US has such an influence over the UN and the international scene that nothing more than a few words and documents is going to happen. Panetta's statement today comes as no surprise.
 
GENEVA: A UN investigator has called on the Obama administration to justify its policy of assassinating rather than capturing al Qaeda or Taliban suspects, increasingly with the use of unmanned drone aircraft that also take civilian lives.

Christ of Heyns, UN special rapporteur on extra-judicial, summary or arbitrary executions, urged Washington to clarify the basis under international law of the policy, in a report issued overnight to the United Nations Human Rights Council.

The 47-member Geneva forum is to hold a debate later on Tuesday. The US military has conducted drone attacks in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen, in addition to conventional raids and air strikes, according to Heyns, a South African jurist serving in the independent post.

"Disclosure of these killings is critical to ensure accountability, justice and reparation for victims or their families," he said in a 28-page report. "The (US) government should clarify the procedures in place to ensure that any targeted killing complies with international humanitarian law and human rights and indicate the measures or strategies applied to prevent casualties, as well as the measures in place to provide prompt, thorough, effective and independent public investigation of alleged violations."

Citing figures from the Pakistan Human Rights Commission, he said US drone strikes killed at least 957 people in Pakistan in 2010 alone. Thousands have been killed in 300 drone strikes there since 2004, 20 percent of whom are believed to be civilians.

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton last week defended Washington's use of drone strikes, days after one killed one of al Qaeda's most powerful figures in Pakistan, Libyan-born AbuYahya al-Libi.


UN investigator decries US use of killer drones - geo.tv
 
Mr. Heyns didn't "decry" the use of drones. I suspect he's quite aware that he is making a "power play" on behalf of the Secretary-General, attempting to change the declared justification from one of NATO self-defence to Pakistan's failure to comply with UNSCR 1373.

For some reason I don't fathom the U.S. doesn't want to go in that direction. Instead, Secretary of State Clinton is hinting that the U.S. could recognize Haqqani-controlled FATA as a separate state and war against it on that basis: link
 
Washington's silence creates doubt on deaths

Justin Elliott
June 23, 2012

Numbers of civilians killed in air strikes do not add up, writes Justin Elliott, of ProPublica.

NEW YORK: A senior United States official said last month the number of civilians killed in drone strikes in Pakistan under the US President, Barack Obama, was in the ''single digits''. But last year, other US officials said drones in Pakistan killed about 30 civilians in just a year-long stretch under Mr Obama.

Both claims cannot be true.


A centrepiece of Mr Obama's national security strategy, drone strikes in Pakistan are credited by the administration with crippling al-Qaeda but criticised by human rights groups and others for being conducted in secret and killing civilians. The underlying facts are often in dispute and claims about how many people died and who they were vary widely.

Given the uncertainty, ProPublica decided to find out if the Obama administration's own claims have been consistent.

It collected claims by the administration about deaths from drone strikes in Pakistan and compared each not to local reports but other US administration claims. The numbers sometimes do not add up. Setting aside the discrepancy between official and outside estimates of civilian deaths, our analysis shows the administration's figures quoted over the years raise questions of credibility.

There have been 307 American drone strikes in Pakistan since 2004, according to a New America Foundation count. Just 44 occurred during the Bush administration. President Obama has greatly expanded the use of drones to attack suspected members of al-Qaeda, the Pakistani Taliban, and other groups in Pakistan's remote north-west region.

Obama officials generally do not comment by name on the drone strikes in Pakistan, but they frequently talk about it to reporters on condition of anonymity. Often those anonymously sourced comments have come in response to outside tallies of civilian deaths from drone attacks, which are generally much higher than the administration's own figures.

The outright contradiction we noted above comes from two claims made about a year apart:

April 22, 2011: McClatchy reports US officials claim ''about 30'' civilians died between August 2009 and August 2010.

May 29, 2012:The New York Times reports that, according to a senior Obama administration official, the number of civilians killed in drone strikes in Pakistan under President Obama is in the ''single digits''.

Other anonymous administration claims about civilian deaths are possible but imply conclusions that seem improbable.

Consider: April 26, 2010:The Washington Post quotes an ''internal CIA accounting'' saying that ''just over 20 civilians'' have been killed by drones in Pakistan since January 2009.

August 11, 2011:The New York Times reports that CIA officers claim zero civilians were killed since May 2010.

August 12, 2011 CNN quoted a US official saying there were 50 civilians killed over the years in drone strikes in Pakistan.

If this set of claims is assumed to be accurate, it suggests that the majority of the 50 total civilian deaths occurred during the Bush administration - when the drone program was still in its infancy. In the entire Bush administration, there were 44 strikes. During the Obama administration through to August 12, 2011, there were 222.

So according to this set of claims more civilians died in just 44 strikes under Bush than did in 222 strikes under Obama.

Consider also these three claims, which imply two lengthy periods when zero or almost zero civilians were killed in drone strikes:

September 10, 2010:Newsweek quotes a government estimate that ''about 30'' civilians were killed since the beginning of 2008.

April 22, 2011: McClatchy reports that US officials claim ''about 30'' civilians died in the year between August 2009 and August 2010.

July 15, 2011: Reuters quotes a source familiar with the drone program as saying ''about 30'' civilians were killed since July 2008.

It is possible all these claims are true. But if they are, it implies the government believes there were zero or almost zero civilian deaths between the beginning of 2008 and August 2009, and zero deaths between August 2010 and July 2011. Those periods comprise a total of 182 strikes.

The administration has rejected in the strongest terms outside claims of a high civilian toll from the drone attacks. Those outside estimates also vary widely.

A count by Bill Roggio, editor of the website the Long War Journal, which bases its estimates on news reports, puts the number of civilians killed in Pakistan at 138. The New America Foundation estimates that, based on press reports, between 293 and 471 civilians have been killed in the attacks. The Bureau of Investigative Journalism in London, which draws on a wider array of sources including researchers and lawyers in Pakistan, puts the number of civilians killed at between 482 and 832.

The authors of the various estimates all emphasise that their counts are imperfect. There are likely multiple reasons for the varying counts of civilian deaths from drone strikes in Pakistan.

The attacks are executed remotely in often inaccessible regions. And there's the question of who US officials are counting as civilians. A story last month in The New York Times reported Mr Obama adopted a policy that ''in effect counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants''.

There are also ongoing debates in the humanitarian law community about who the US may legitimately target with drone strikes and how the CIA is applying the principle of proportionality - which holds attacks that may cause civilian deaths must be proportional to the level of military advantage anticipated.

In a rare public comment on drone strikes, Mr Obama told an online town hall meeting in January that the drones had not caused ''a huge number of civilian casualties''.

When giving their own figures on civilian deaths, administration officials are often countering local reports. In March last year, for example, Pakistanis including the country's army chief accused a US drone strike of hitting a peaceful meeting of tribal elders, killing about 40 people. An unnamed US official rejected the accusations, telling the Associated Press: ''There's every indication that this was a group of terrorists, not a charity car wash in the Pakistani hinterlands.''

The Los Angeles Times reported unnamed US officials said last year ''they are confident they know who has been killed because they watch each strike on video and gather intelligence in the aftermath, observing funerals for the dead and eavesdropping on conversations about the strikes''.

The United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, Navi Pillay, said during a visit to Pakistan this month there should be investigation of killings of civilians by drones and that victims should be compensated. The US has given compensation to victims of airstrikes in Afghanistan but there are no reports of victims of drone strikes in Pakistan being compensated.

Since the various administration statements over the years were almost all quoted anonymously, it's impossible to go back to the officials in question to ask them about contradictions.

Asked about the apparent contradictions, a National Security Council spokesman, Tommy Vietor, said: ''[We] simply do not comment on alleged drone strikes.''



Read more: Washington's silence creates doubt on deaths
 
Instead, Secretary of State Clinton is hinting that the U.S. could recognize Haqqani-controlled FATA as a separate state and war against it on that basis: link
Any unilateral US declaration of this kind would have no international legal basis or justification, and any US actions subsequent to such a declaration, utilizing said declaration as their basis, would be continue to be illegal under international law.

The only way for the US to obtain legal cover for such a declaration or its current illegal drone strikes is to obtain a fresh UNSC resolution expanding the authority given to NATO to undertake military action in Afghanistan, to cover Pakistan and/or parts of Pakistan.
 
Any unilateral US declaration of this kind would have no international legal basis or justification, and any US actions subsequent to such a declaration, utilizing said declaration as their basis, would be continue to be illegal under international law.

The only way for the US to obtain legal cover for such a declaration or its current illegal drone strikes is to obtain a fresh UNSC resolution expanding the authority given to NATO to undertake military action in Afghanistan, to cover Pakistan and/or parts of Pakistan.

The only way? How about a simple, bilateral MoU between Pakistan and USA?
 
Any unilateral US declaration of this kind would have no international legal basis or justification, and any US actions subsequent to such a declaration, utilizing said declaration as their basis, would be continue to be illegal under international law.
Just because AM says so, check.
 
The only way? How about a simple, bilateral MoU between Pakistan and USA?
The comment was made conditional to the lack of a bilateral understanding between the US and Pakistan.

Just because AM says so, check.
Nope, because the UN would have to recognize any such state and grant legitimacy to any actions, especially military, that would violate the sovereignty and territorial integrity of a UN Member State.

Unilateral US declarations of the kind being suggested would have no basis and legitimacy under existing international law and the UN Charter.
 
Mr. Heyns didn't "decry" the use of drones. I suspect he's quite aware that he is making a "power play" on behalf of the Secretary-General, attempting to change the declared justification from one of NATO self-defence to Pakistan's failure to comply with UNSCR 1373.

For some reason I don't fathom the U.S. doesn't want to go in that direction. Instead, Secretary of State Clinton is hinting that the U.S. could recognize Haqqani-controlled FATA as a separate state and war against it on that basis: link

Its USA/ISAF's failure to control the Afghan Border..If they secure the border,nobody will go there from Pakistan...simple..
 
The comment was made conditional to the lack of a bilateral understanding between the US and Pakistan.
......................

As long as that conditionality is explicitly expressed, and eventually proven to not exist. Just making sure.
 
US drone attacks in Pakistan: UN backs probe into civilian casualties
By AFP
Published: June 7, 2012

I see indiscriminate killings, injuries of civilians in any circumstances as human rights violations, says Navi Pillay.

ISLAMABAD: The UN human rights chief on Thursday called for a UN investigation into US drone strikes in Pakistan, questioning their legality and saying they kill innocent civilians.

UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay made the remarks at the end of a four-day visit to the country, where US drone strikes have on average targeted militants once every four days under US President Barack Obama.

Islamabad is understood to have approved the strikes on al Qaeda and Taliban targets in the past. But the government has become increasingly energetic in its public opposition as relations with Washington have nosedived.

“Drone attacks do raise serious questions about compliance with international law,” Pillay told a news conference in Islamabad.

“The principle of distinction and proportionality and ensuring accountability for any failure to comply with international law is also difficult when drone attacks are conducted outside the military chain of command and beyond effective and transparent mechanisms of civilian or military control,” she said.
She said the attacks violate human rights.

“I see the indiscriminate killings and injuries of civilians in any circumstances as human rights violations.”
The UN human rights chief provided no statistics but called for an investigation into civilian casualties, which she said were difficult to track.

“Because these attacks are indiscriminate it is very, very difficult to track the numbers of people who have been killed,” she said.

“I suggested to the government that they invite the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Summary or Arbitrary Executions and he will be able to investigate some of the incidents.”

She said UN chief Ban Ki-moon had urged states to be “more transparent” about circumstances in which drones are used and take necessary precautions to ensure that the attacks involving drones comply with applicable international law.

“So therefore I stress the importance of investigating such cases and ensuring compensation and redress to the victims.”

Washington releases few details about its covert drone programme in Pakistan but on Wednesday US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta described them as self-defence and promised that they would continue to target al Qaeda in Pakistan.

US drone attacks in Pakistan: UN backs probe into civilian casualties – The Express Tribune

This comes on the heels of the Amnesty International statement:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/war-ag...sty-says-obl-raid-drone-strikes-unlawful.html

@Solomon 2:

I believe this puts to rest your theory that there is any kind of 'covert UNSC authorization for US military operations inside Pakistan', and that UNSCR 1373 somehow authorizes US military operations inside Pakistan.

Drone strikes threaten 50 years of international law, says UN rapporteur | World news | guardian.co.uk

n response to a report by Heyns to the UN Human Rights Council this week, the US put out a statement in Geneva saying there was "unequivocal US commitment to conducting such operations with extraordinary care and in accordance with all applicable law, including the law of war".
 
Drone strikes threaten 50 years of international law, says UN rapporteur | World news | guardian.co.uk

"In response to a report by Heyns to the UN Human Rights Council this week, the US put out a statement in Geneva saying there was "unequivocal US commitment to conducting such operations with extraordinary care and in accordance with all applicable law, including the law of war".

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/war-ag...trikes-civilian-casualties.html#ixzz1ycc5apSM

What else is the criminal (US) going to do other than issue statements defending its crimes?

The fact remains however that the UN and various other organizations are questioning the legality of US drone strikes and the fact that they might constitute human rights violations and war crimes. There is no UN resolution or international legal statute that the US has offered as credible legal justification for its actions.

As long as that conditionality is explicitly expressed, and eventually proven to not exist. Just making sure.
Currently there is no bilateral MOU between the US and Pakistan governing US drone strikes or other military operations inside Pakistani territory, therefore my comment earlier is applicable and US drone strikes are illegal under international law.
 
..................
Currently there is no bilateral MOU between the US and Pakistan governing US drone strikes or other military operations inside Pakistani territory, therefore my comment earlier is applicable and US drone strikes are illegal under international law.

It would be more accurate to say that currently there is no bilateral MOU between the US and Pakistan governing US drone strikes or other military operations inside Pakistani territory in the public domain, and therefore a determination of whether US drone strikes are illegal under international law cannot be decided at present. USA says they are legal: Pakistan contends they are illegal.
 
Nope, because the UN would have to recognize any such state and grant legitimacy to any actions -
No, and no. That's not true, not in the smallest bit. If you want to contradict me, cite fact, law, and precedence and stop making things up. I'm not one of the hoi polloi to be bamboozled by a smooth talking bureaucrat wearing a suit.

Its USA/ISAF's failure to control the Afghan Border..If they secure the border,nobody will go there from Pakistan...simple..
Sure, it's not the fault of the Afghans or Pakistanis to secure their mutual border, no sir, no sir, that can never be....
 
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