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TIK "History" vs. Real History

Desert Fox

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So as many who are familiar with my posts on this forum are aware I have posted TIK's videos a few times.

And the guy does his research which is PHENOMENAL to say the least and I have enjoyed many of his videos (Stalingrad series, although I do have some points I could criticize him on)

However, for someone who claims to be an unbiased researcher/WW2 history enthusiast/proponent of unbiased truth/"historian" (and whatever else he or his followers claim him to be) he has been disingenuous and biased on many accounts but recently he seems to have gone off the rails with this whole historically inaccurate and false strawman of "everyone who isn't a Liberal Democrat/Capitalist is a Socialist Mass Murderer" and of course "anyone who disagrees with me is a Socialist".

He's basically taking the establishment's position, the position of the elites, and thus the safe position. There is nothing daring and commendable about taking the position of the majority, because it's the easiest and safest thing to do.

By bashing Germans and repeating the same old holocaust/"zhe ebil Germans" narrative TIK is beating the pulpified carcass of a dead horse, one that countless many "historians" have already beaten countless times.

He is disingenuous because he's aware of the facts but deliberately fools his audience and the little personality cult following he has garnered.

And anyone who disagrees with him and his cult followers is attacked by them not unlike a mob of AntiFa Bolsheviks.

And he is aware of the facts which is apparent to anyone who has watched his videos and noticed his contradictory narrative where in one video he says one thing but in the next he pushes a narrative that conflicts with the other when in actuality both facts compliment each other.

For example in his latest video "Fate of Soviet Prisoners" he states that the Germans deliberately starved Soviet POW's whom they were morally responsible to protect implying that they had the means to do so.

But in other videos he states (quoting sources) that the Wehrmacht "suffered severe logistical and food shortages which hampered its ability to conduct war effectively as well as feed the populations within its occupied territories".

Logically and if one were honest one would conclude that the Whermacht's main objective was to knock out its main adversaries and achieve victory (whatever form that victory might have taken in the eyes of its leadership) and to use every means towards that end, which included not being a humanitarian organization that deprives it's own soldiers of limited food supplies and resources to feed 4 million POW's whilst fighting a war on multiple fronts against industrially equal or superior powers with more resources at their disposal than it..

Hitler had as much moral responsibility over Soviet POW's as Winston Churchill had over the 4 million civilians he starved to death in 1943 during the Bengal Famine when he confiscated their food to feed White Greeks and British soldiers.

quote-i-hate-indians-they-are-a-beastly-people-with-a-beastly-religion-winston-churchill-219053.jpg

Churchill was a truly humanitarian
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...-more-villain-than-hero-in-britain-s-colonies

TIK deliberately ignored the fact that Hitler did attempt to reach some form of agreement with the Soviets on treatment of POW's which Stalin turned down because in his view "any Soviet soldier who surrenders is a traitor", and Stalin did indeed prove his words when in 1945 German camps containing Soviet POW's who were "liberated" by the Red army were executed, tortured or sent packing to Siberia in cattle cars.

Thus not only Stalin didn't care about his own soldiers in German captivity, he meted out the same treatment to German POW's in his captivity. Therefore to expect Hitler to babysit Soviet POW's at the expense of his own soldiers after this is to be unrealistic and illogical especially from the modern, mechanistic and secular warfare perspective where only cold ruthless logic prevails and not vague concepts of "morality" which are religious in origin.

British historian Robert Conquest explains in his book Stalin: Breaker of Nations, the Soviets adamantly refused to cooperate:

"When the Germans approached the Soviets, through Sweden, to negotiate observance of the provisions of the Geneva Convention on prisoners of war, Stalin refused. The Soviet soldiers in German hands were thus unprotected even in theory. Millions of them died in captivity, through malnutrition or maltreatment. If Stalin had adhered to the convention (to which the USSR had not been a party) would the Germans have behaved better? To judge by their treatment of other 'Slav submen' POWs (like the Poles, even surrendering after the [1944] Warsaw Rising), the answer seems to be yes. (Stalin's own behavior to [Polish] prisoners captured by the Red Army had already been demonstrated at Katyn and elsewhere [where they were shot]."

Another historian, Nikolai Tolstoy, affirms in The Secret Betrayal:

"Hitler himself urged Red Cross inspection of [German] camps [holding Soviet prisoners of war]. But an appeal to Stalin for prisoners' postal services received a reply that clinched the matter: 'There are no Soviet prisoners of war. The Soviet soldier fights on till death. If he chooses to become a prisoner, he is automatically excluded from the Russian community. We are not interested in a postal service only for Germans'."

But TIK won't mention this because he's a disingenuous propagandist. He's peddling the same old mainstream garbage you can find on the History channel. If I want to hear the same old garbage propaganda I can just watch mainstream TV.

In more than one video now TIK has repeatedly also used the already debunked canard of "National Socialism = Marxist Socialism because of the word Socialism therefore National Socialism is a Marxist ideology" (this is how low TIK has sunk because of his disingenuity).

Anyone with basic political science knowledge and knowledge of European history from the last 2-300 years, particularly of WW2 (as TIK specializes in but twists facts to further an agenda) knows that the first ideology is a Folkish & Nationalistic ideology while the second is an Internationalist & materialistic ideology (to put it in a nutshell).

Just because the word "Socialism" is in "National Socialism" doesn't mean Hitler is now a Communist/Marxist. Socialism predates Marx and the term itself was used by numerous people with different meanings. For Marx what he called socialism was just a phase before Communism was achieved.

For Hitler and other Right wingers their Socialism was derived from the Catholic Social Doctrine (based in religious morality, ironically for TIK who claims to be proponent of moralism whilst championing capitalism) or from Oswald Spengler's Prussian Socialism which was attributed to the German Chancellor Otto von Bismarck when he made reforms that helped the workers against the mistreatment of employers. Hitler even states in Mein Kampf that the Christian Social movement of Dr. Karl Lueger, the mayor of Vienna when Hitler resided there during his homeless years, influenced his future political planning. Whereas Hitler calls Marx a devil. TIK extensively quotes Mein Kampf which further proves that he is disingenuous and selectively chooses quotes to push his own agenda.

TIK also extensively quoted from Hitler's Second Book in his video "The Real Reason why Hitler HAD To start WW2" yet did he not mention Hitlers admiration of America's founding fathers and its then racially selective immigration policy, of the British Race theorist Houstin Stewart Chamberlin, and of the American racial theorist Madison Grant who was personally close to President Theodore Roosevelt?

This leads me to believe that TIK is being disingenuous and pushing a agenda that is biased and partial rather than neutral and genuinely interested in the truth.

@Nilgiri @Psychic @LeGenD @Army research @The Sandman
 
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@Desert Fox

Yes I have been following this issue with TIK for a while now. It's just his perspective on it...it has both merit and flaw.

I would say it stems from the larger issue of trying to fit in very diverse ranging systems (both theory and application) into broad left/right or liberal/conservative semantics...because human psyche is naturally inclined to have a binary system in conflict etc.

By doing this we lose the larger picture that often the friend of your friend does not have to be your friend in the end (and the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend etc).

In this TIK case specifically, the issue I feel that's biggest (that everyone kind of discusses in the comments when they are angry with some take he has on it) is the definition of left and right to begin with.

The traditional "european/euro-centric" take on it is you have communism as the left and anti-communism as the right. This allows for both libertarian style conservatives AND authoritarian anti-communist systems to both share space on the right of the spectrum (the latter being labelled "far-right" etc). It was quite different within Europe before the rise of Hitler as well....but historians saw a driving need for the strict binary to in effect suppress any nuanced argument/analysis of what had just happened....so the convention has become the standard definition in a way.

This is not true however with the north american sensibility on the topic...where the left is identified with govt authoritarianism (whatever its hue) and the right with libertarianism. It is actually the more disciplined logical system in my opinion. Hence a Nazi-style party in say the US would in the traditional (esp pre WW2) sense be on the left of the spectrum there....but conventionally (because of the influence from Europe in the discourse during and after WW2) is taken for granted as the "far right" in using the european model of definition. This debate (traditional regional definition vs conventional euro-world definition) is now resurfacing as the conservative movement pushes back against the application of the Nazi moniker now increasing in the left.

TIK is an example of an exception to this rule in that he is introducing more of this north american sensibility...but he is British (European)...so it sort of comes off as weird for many (esp those that have no real idea of say US politics and its formation etc)

This is very much in the end just like how you mention what "socialism" as a word even originates from and its changing meaning etc depending on the era. I mean the fundamental thing the "north american" sensibility on the left-right thing misses out upon when applying to Europe in WW2....is that there is key difference in the economic approach past the over-sweeping govt control aspect of such found in both Hitler and Stalin. For example though Hitler was a firm believer in the means of production owned/controlled by the state...it was more through a controlling interest (rather than managing interest)...i.e the market still had its role and scope to exist as the default mechanism for determining price etc. Compare this to GOSPLAN where every product (down to toothbrush and shoe) had a production target and monolithic categorisation.

So there is no real strict application of both systems broadly to the other....and this is just the european vs north american definitions and conventions.....there are many more in rest of the world and different variables and degrees even within Europe and NA. I mean often the govt control (but not micromanaged sort) of means of (some depending on degree and policy argument) production is simply labelled some kind of free market socialism.....whereas that would be absolutely unthinkable for a communist to call as socialist....i.e there is even this degree of which end of the rope you are viewing things from and many simply assume something a bit different to their ideal is in the "middle" and in "compromise" with the other end....but really its not.

Its a long un-ending argument to be honest. I'm kind of glad that TIK actually brought it up for people to think about.....more people do need to think about it and then realise, it just depends on context and what the definition even is (in the convention you grew up with)...and does it have to be strictly binary one etc....and if so what are the pros and cons of doing so...and can other logical forms of the same concept exist....what are they? Whichever you personally subscribe to, its important to be cognisant of what's out there.....both for argument and agreement.
 
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@Desert Fox There is one topic which isn't discussed much & usually brushed under carpet 'mass rapes by Red Army' when they walked into Germany.

Add deliberate firebombing of Dresden (of little to no military value) by the Allies just to kill civilians.

There is long list actually of not-kosher topics that are brushed aside or even suppressed....if you look at volume of discourse of those compared to other more publicised/published aspects of the war.

But then again its all part of winners write history etc.
 
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The traditional "european/euro-centric" take on it is you have communism as the left and anti-communism as the right. This allows for both libertarian style conservatives AND authoritarian anti-communist systems to both share space on the right of the spectrum (the latter being labelled "far-right" etc). It was quite different within Europe before the rise of Hitler as well....but historians saw a driving need for the strict binary to in effect suppress any nuanced argument/analysis of what had just happened....so the convention has become the standard definition in a way.
The European take is the original one and true to meaning: those who want to claim the title of anti-left should at least have some semblance of the original Right, the Right which is genuine conservative, with the exception of the Liberals/Libertarians who historically were considered on the left until recently where the discourse has increasingly become one of economics thanks to the cold war as well as American domination post cold war.
This is not true however with the north american sensibility on the topic...where the left is identified with govt authoritarianism (whatever its hue) and the right with libertarianism. It is actually the more disciplined logical system in my opinion. Hence a Nazi-style party in say the US would in the traditional (esp pre WW2) sense be on the left of the spectrum there....but conventionally (because of the influence from Europe in the discourse during and after WW2) is taken for granted as the "far right" in using the european model of definition. This debate (traditional regional definition vs conventional euro-world definition) is now resurfacing as the conservative movement pushes back against the application of the Nazi moniker now increasing in the left.
I think this is due to the economics being at the forefront therefore government control over the market vs. free market capitalism/less government control/oversight or none at all.

Within the context of the USA it certainly does make sense where the founding ideology (Liberalism) has more in common with Marxism in its individualism/universalistic and materialistic worldview and the pursuit of establishing a worldly utopia through less overtly repressive means.

In this case the struggle isn't between "conservatives" and the left but rather Free Market Materialists vs. Class Warfare Materialists.

American conservatives haven't conserved anything (not the conservative culture, not marriage, not the family, not the traditional geners, not the sense of community, not the jobs, not even the borders), same thing with the British and the Anglo-American sphere in general.

Besides championing Israeli wars for a good 3 decades they have very little to show for, and the recent populism/nationalism has more mainland European tinge to it than the individualism/economism of Liberalism which is why subversives like Jordan Peterson and this TIK fellow are trying their best to sap that energy away from a true and genuine Right arising by pushing this bogus "radical individualism" trope once again, the same radical individualism which landed "conservatives" and the entire west in this predicament in the first place in the face of a highly collective and united left
TIK is an example of an exception to this rule in that he is introducing more of this north american sensibility...but he is British (European)...so it sort of comes off as weird for many (esp those that have no real idea of say US politics and its formation etc)
In an attempt to equate Nazi Germany to Communism he's also dragging every other socio-political-economic system into this black and white categorization.

He is displaying the stereotypical Anglo-Saxon arrogant "I know what's best for the world" attitude and he's degrading/oversimplifying everything to economics of "if it's not complete free market then it's in the same boat as Marxist socialism" completely disregarding the philosophical differences of the various political systems. He's trying to pull off a Jordan Peterson.

It all started with him veering off the path of making unbiased historical battle videos to trying to equate wartime Nazism with Soviet Communism because of state emergency powers and atrocities, both actual and alleged. By this definition Abraham Lincoln Lincoln was also a socialist because he suspended Habeas corpus and had anyone who criticized the Norths war imprisoned for the duration of the American civil war. Winston Churchill is also a socialist because he ordered the confiscation of food from Bengal which caused the famine that killed 4 million people.

Some notable comments on his recent video (there's more. He's getting flak from alot of people across the political spectrum it seems):

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He denies that he's a Libertarian (AnCap) but then goes on about the "individual" and free cooperation between individuals.

But fact is that within any given society, before the term "socialism" was ever coined, till today, people never did and still don't "cooperate freely". Can an Indian general just walk right into Pakistan into the head quarters of the ISI and the Pakistani security will just allow him? Sure in theory he can, but in reality there are such things as group (National) interests which every human being is subject to and we have no choice or else societies would fall apart.
 
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The European take is the original one and true to meaning: those who want to claim the title of anti-left should at least have some semblance of the original Right, the Right which is genuine conservative, with the exception of the Liberals/Libertarians who historically were considered on the left until recently where the discourse has increasingly become one of economics thanks to the cold war as well as American domination post cold war.

I think this is due to the economics being at the forefront therefore government control over the market vs. free market capitalism/less government control/oversight or none at all.

Within the context of the USA it certainly does make sense where the founding ideology (Liberalism) has more in common with Marxism in its individualism/universalistic and materialistic worldview and the pursuit of establishing a worldly utopia through less overtly repressive means.

In this case the struggle isn't between "conservatives" and the left but rather Free Market Materialists vs. Class Warfare Materialists.

American conservatives haven't conserved anything (not the conservative culture, not marriage, not the family, not the traditional geners, not the sense of community, not the jobs, not even the borders), same thing with the British and the Anglo-American sphere in general.

Besides championing Israeli wars for a good 3 decades they have very little to show for, and the recent populism/nationalism has more mainland European tinge to it than the individualism/economism of Liberalism which is why subversives like Jordan Peterson and this TIK fellow are trying their best to sap that energy away from a true and genuine Right arising by pushing this bogus "radical individualism" trope once again, the same radical individualism which landed "conservatives" and the entire west in this predicament in the first place in the face of a highly collective and united left

In an attempt to equate Nazi Germany to Communism he's also dragging every other socio-political-economic system into this black and white categorization.

He is displaying the stereotypical Anglo-Saxon arrogant "I know what's best for the world" attitude and he's degrading/oversimplifying everything to economics of "if it's not complete free market then it's in the same boat as Marxist socialism" completely disregarding the philosophical differences of the various political systems. He's trying to pull off a Jordan Peterson.

It all started with him veering off the path of making unbiased historical battle videos to trying to equate wartime Nazism with Soviet Communism because of state emergency powers and atrocities, both actual and alleged. By this definition Abraham Lincoln Lincoln was also a socialist because he suspended Habeas corpus and had anyone who criticized the Norths war imprisoned for the duration of the American civil war. Winston Churchill is also a socialist because he ordered the confiscation of food from Bengal which caused the famine that killed 4 million people.

Some notable comments on his recent video (there's more. He's getting flak from alot of people across the political spectrum it seems):

View attachment 571816View attachment 571817
View attachment 571819View attachment 571818

View attachment 571821View attachment 571814View attachment 571822


He denies that he's a Libertarian (AnCap) but then goes on about the "individual" and free cooperation between individuals.

But fact is that within any given society, before the term "socialism" was ever coined, till today, people never did and still don't "cooperate freely". Can an Indian general just walk right into Pakistan into the head quarters of the ISI and the Pakistani security will just allow him? Sure in theory he can, but in reality there are such things as group (National) interests which every human being is subject to and we have no choice or else societies would fall apart.

Yes he has not done a cursory study of other people's positions and how their concepts and definitions come about.....all the while imposing his shaky definition, glossing over the fine print, (as you point out in certain poignant parts contrasting the mistreatment of soviet POWs versus the lack of food already present among the germans) as the one over-arching one. So its quite unfair....and of course people correctly take him up on it and challenge him.

I'm just giving what his perspective likely is (and people like him)....doesn't mean I agree with it....but it can be important to know why they think that way.

Like you said, he is better at the military analysis rather than the political one. His economic analysis is mixed bag.

Most people I watch with any seriousness, I tend to prefer to mostly use as gateways for further research (rather than simply accept their word on it) into things that interest me that I didnt know before.... given everyone has their bias that may or may not be immediately apparent.

Most people don't really want to do this, they just want quick immediate answers without putting any work in....and thus they become easy puppets in the end for whatever agenda.
 
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Add deliberate firebombing of Dresden (of little to no military value) by the Allies just to kill civilians.

There is long list actually of not-kosher topics that are brushed aside or even suppressed....if you look at volume of discourse of those compared to other more publicised/published aspects of the war.

But then again its all part of winners write history etc.
There are whole lot of events which are brushed under carpet but thanks to modern printing press & motion picture truth has been atleast reserved though not spoken and discussed.
 
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I'm just giving what his perspective likely is (and people like him)....doesn't mean I agree with it....but it can be important to know why they think that way.
Of course. That wasn't my intention if anything I said came off that way. And i definitely agree that it is better to have open discourse provided it's a constructive dialogue where all sides are open to hearing out the other.

Most people I watch with any seriousness, I tend to prefer to mostly use as gateways for further research (rather than simply accept their word on it) into things that interest me that I didnt know before.... given everyone has their bia
Same here.
 
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Of course. That wasn't my intention if anything I said came off that way. And i definitely agree that it is better to have open discourse provided it's a constructive dialogue where all sides are open to hearing out the other.


Same here.

Just for others reading my friend :).... we have talked on this extensively after all.
 
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