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India-Russia move towards co-production of defence equipment
h_51779062_468.jpg

Sushma Swaraj: “Russia and India these ties are based on mutual trust”. Source: EPA
India and Russia were moving away from a mere buyer-seller relationship in the defence hardware segment, and moving increasingly towards co-production of defence hardware, India’s external affairs minister Sushma Swaraj said.

Nilova Roy Chaudhury, RIR
June 2, 2015
Russia and India are increasingly moving towards joint-production of military equipment, and away from a typical buyer-seller relationship, indicating a significant level of improvement and mutual trust in bilateral relation, Sushma Swaraj, India’s Minister of External Affairs said. She was speaking at a press conference on Sunday highlighting the foreign policy achievements of the Narendra Modi government’s first year in office.

“Our military-technical cooperation with Russia was based on a ‘buyer-seller’ relationship – they sold arms, and we bought them,” she said. “But this (cooperation) has now changed. Russia has decided to produce weapons in India, as well as to jointly manufacture arms with us, transferring the corresponding technologies.”

India has been increasingly seeking co-production of defence equipment and transfer of technology, including sophisticated technologies like building fighter jets, submarines, missiles and tanks, as part of the government’s ‘Make in India’ initiative. The defence sector is a major area in which the government hopes to make a success of manufacturing in the ‘Make in India’ programme.


India keen to build frigates jointly with Russia


Talking about bilateral relations in general, Ms. Swaraj said that between “Russia and India these ties are based on mutual trust”. “Russia is our time-tested friend,” Swaraj added.

She was reiterating the view of successive Indian governments towards Russia since the beginning of this century, particularly, when the relationship was upgraded to the status of a strategic partnership (in 2000) and subsequently to a “Special and Privileged Strategic Partnership,” in 2010.

Before and during his recent visit to Moscow, Indian President Pranab Mukherjee also spoke glowingly about Russia being India’s “time-tested friend,” which always firmly stood by India.

The two countries have an Intergovernmental Commission on Military Technical Cooperation (IRIGC- MTC) co-chaired by Russian and Indian Defence Ministers, meeting annually.

India began manufacturing military equipment provided under a Russian license back in 1967, when India’s defence aircraft manufacturer Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) assembled the first MiG-21 in the country.

In 1998, Russia and India jointly manufactured a supersonic cruise missile, BrahMos, (named after the rivers Brahmaputra and Moskva), which has been inducted into the Indian armed forces.

India and Russia are currently engaged in negotiations to set up a joint-venture for the production of Ka-226T multi-purpose helicopters. Both India and Russia are also planning to subsequently export the co-produced BrahMos and Ka-226T to third countries.

Negotiations are on to explore the possibility of jointly building multi-role fighter jets, (possibly the Su 35 MKI) needed by the Indian Air Force (IAF), in India. India recently bought 36 Rafale fighter aircraft from France, out of an original list of 126.

India’s Defence Minister Manohar Parikkar said last week that the IAF did not need 126 aircraft, and indicated that, after the 36 Rafale aircraft, the IAF’s needs would be met with foreign collaboration, but made in India.


Read section:
Defence and Security

Joint manufacture and co-production of military hardware has been an ongoing feature of bilateral relations, over several decades.

The Modi government has opened up the defence sector to foreign direct investment, with a 49 per cent cap, which allows private and foreign investment into its defence manufacturing sector. It is encouraging large private Indian companies, and some foreign ones, to set up base in this country and manufacture defence equipment jointly.

India has been one of the world’s largest buyers of military hardware over the past decade and would like to begin some “import substitution.” The bulk of India’s military hardware in the past came from the USSR and, when the Soviet Union broke up, the bilateral relationship developed a few wrinkles, with problems particularly relating to defence spares and timely delivery of equipment, cost overruns and so on. However, since the turn of the century, the relationship appears back on track, a senior official said, and “the problems between old friends” has been largely sorted out.

“The level of trust between both countries is very high,” the official said.

Negotiations are now on, an official source told RIR, to jointly manufacture hardware in India and then export the equipment, including the iconic BrahMos missile, to third countries once domestic needs are met. Vietnam is among the countries that have expressed a desire to buy the BrahMos, the source said.
 
All rumours ...Once again .... But Su35 mki is not luxury but necessity for national security . After we bought only 36 rafale for whopping 7 billion dollars .

Su 35 is the most advanced air superiority 4++ gen fighter available today . Many new avionics modifications will make this fighter best among the world for years to come

India-Russia move towards co-production of defence equipment
h_51779062_468.jpg

Sushma Swaraj: “Russia and India these ties are based on mutual trust”. Source: EPA
India and Russia were moving away from a mere buyer-seller relationship in the defence hardware segment, and moving increasingly towards co-production of defence hardware, India’s external affairs minister Sushma Swaraj said.

Nilova Roy Chaudhury, RIR
June 2, 2015
Russia and India are increasingly moving towards joint-production of military equipment, and away from a typical buyer-seller relationship, indicating a significant level of improvement and mutual trust in bilateral relation, Sushma Swaraj, India’s Minister of External Affairs said. She was speaking at a press conference on Sunday highlighting the foreign policy achievements of the Narendra Modi government’s first year in office.

“Our military-technical cooperation with Russia was based on a ‘buyer-seller’ relationship – they sold arms, and we bought them,” she said. “But this (cooperation) has now changed. Russia has decided to produce weapons in India, as well as to jointly manufacture arms with us, transferring the corresponding technologies.”

India has been increasingly seeking co-production of defence equipment and transfer of technology, including sophisticated technologies like building fighter jets, submarines, missiles and tanks, as part of the government’s ‘Make in India’ initiative. The defence sector is a major area in which the government hopes to make a success of manufacturing in the ‘Make in India’ programme.


India keen to build frigates jointly with Russia


Talking about bilateral relations in general, Ms. Swaraj said that between “Russia and India these ties are based on mutual trust”. “Russia is our time-tested friend,” Swaraj added.

She was reiterating the view of successive Indian governments towards Russia since the beginning of this century, particularly, when the relationship was upgraded to the status of a strategic partnership (in 2000) and subsequently to a “Special and Privileged Strategic Partnership,” in 2010.

Before and during his recent visit to Moscow, Indian President Pranab Mukherjee also spoke glowingly about Russia being India’s “time-tested friend,” which always firmly stood by India.

The two countries have an Intergovernmental Commission on Military Technical Cooperation (IRIGC- MTC) co-chaired by Russian and Indian Defence Ministers, meeting annually.

India began manufacturing military equipment provided under a Russian license back in 1967, when India’s defence aircraft manufacturer Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) assembled the first MiG-21 in the country.

In 1998, Russia and India jointly manufactured a supersonic cruise missile, BrahMos, (named after the rivers Brahmaputra and Moskva), which has been inducted into the Indian armed forces.

India and Russia are currently engaged in negotiations to set up a joint-venture for the production of Ka-226T multi-purpose helicopters. Both India and Russia are also planning to subsequently export the co-produced BrahMos and Ka-226T to third countries.

Negotiations are on to explore the possibility of jointly building multi-role fighter jets, (possibly the Su 35 MKI) needed by the Indian Air Force (IAF), in India. India recently bought 36 Rafale fighter aircraft from France, out of an original list of 126.

India’s Defence Minister Manohar Parikkar said last week that the IAF did not need 126 aircraft, and indicated that, after the 36 Rafale aircraft, the IAF’s needs would be met with foreign collaboration, but made in India.


Read section:
Defence and Security

Joint manufacture and co-production of military hardware has been an ongoing feature of bilateral relations, over several decades.

The Modi government has opened up the defence sector to foreign direct investment, with a 49 per cent cap, which allows private and foreign investment into its defence manufacturing sector. It is encouraging large private Indian companies, and some foreign ones, to set up base in this country and manufacture defence equipment jointly.

India has been one of the world’s largest buyers of military hardware over the past decade and would like to begin some “import substitution.” The bulk of India’s military hardware in the past came from the USSR and, when the Soviet Union broke up, the bilateral relationship developed a few wrinkles, with problems particularly relating to defence spares and timely delivery of equipment, cost overruns and so on. However, since the turn of the century, the relationship appears back on track, a senior official said, and “the problems between old friends” has been largely sorted out.

“The level of trust between both countries is very high,” the official said.

Negotiations are now on, an official source told RIR, to jointly manufacture hardware in India and then export the equipment, including the iconic BrahMos missile, to third countries once domestic needs are met. Vietnam is among the countries that have expressed a desire to buy the BrahMos, the source said.
Dude where is the source ?
 
All rumours ...Once again .... But Su35 mki is not luxury but necessity for national security . After we bought only 36 rafale for whopping 7 billion dollars .

Su 35 is the most advanced air superiority 4++ gen fighter available today . Many new avionics modifications will make this fighter best among the world for years to come


Dude where is the source ?
RUssia india report
 
All rumours ...Once again .... But Su35 mki is not luxury but necessity for national security . After we bought only 36 rafale for whopping 7 billion dollars .

Su 35 is the most advanced air superiority 4++ gen fighter available today . Many new avionics modifications will make this fighter best among the world for years to come


Dude where is the source ?

It became so AFTER IAF opted for 6 Rafales? because as far as i can remember when the project was of 126 planes Rafale were the best back then.
Please, i am not trying to troll or humiliate anyone but do have to point out the fast changing standards for "the best plane in the world"
 
All rumours ...Once again .... But Su35 mki is not luxury but necessity for national security . After we bought only 36 rafale for whopping 7 billion dollars .

Su 35 is the most advanced air superiority 4++ gen fighter available today . Many new avionics modifications will make this fighter best among the world for years to come


Dude where is the source ?
SU 30 MKI is almost comparable to SU 35,if these are upgraded to "Super" SUkhoi standard there is no need for SU 35s.
 
India wont go for Su 35.

A MRCA is MRCA. A LRCA or HRCA cant take its place.

We need Meduim Weight Fighters and India will definitely order more than 36 Rafales.

So bottom line is India wont go for Su 35.


However it will definitely go for Super MKI.
 
I thought Indian are moving towards European/American Technology b/c of high maintenance cost of SUs and Migs.
Anyways Su-MKI is a potent platform. If Indian can rectify maintenance issues, it could prove more viable than Rafales, just a thought.
 
It became so AFTER IAF opted for 6 Rafales? because as far as i can remember when the project was of 126 planes Rafale were the best back then.
Please, i am not trying to troll or humiliate anyone but do have to point out the fast changing standards for "the best plane in the world"
You are quite right in pointing that what is best today may not be tomorrow.
However in this case (Comparing Rafale with Su 35), it must be kept in mind that both are in different category (weight class), correspondingly when we talk of IAF's requirement of a medium weight category plane, Rafale suited the requirements in best possible manner.
& (speaking from threat perception pov), i'm sure, planners would've factored threats posed by JF 17, J-10 A/B and J-11 immediately and future upgrades vis a vis Rafale (As a weapon system) and its upgrade potential.
 
You are quite right in pointing that what is best today may not be tomorrow.
However in this case (Comparing Rafale with Su 35), it must be kept in mind that both are in different category (weight class), correspondingly when we talk of IAF's requirement of a medium weight category plane, Rafale suited the requirements in best possible manner.
& (speaking from threat perception pov), i'm sure, planners would've factored threats posed by JF 17, J-10 A/B and J-11 immediately and future upgrades vis a vis Rafale (As a weapon system) and its upgrade potential.

Understandable! :)
What was amazing was some members simply forgetting these little details that matter the most and simply labeling Rafale and now Su-5 the best fourth or 4.5 generation plane just based on IAF acquisition plans.

However the little details you have pointed to are the things that matter!
 
The need is to get LCA Mk2 on the road with AESA. Get 300+ of these little monsters. 272 of MKIs and Rafales. Then roadmap it that Rafale, Jaguar, Mig 27 replaced with AMCA and MKI with PAKFA. And replace LCA with a single engine stealth fighter. Hopefully, we will develop the AMCA with a naval airplane mode in mind.
 
Understandable! :)
What was amazing was some members simply forgetting these little details that matter the most and simply labeling Rafale and now Su-5 the best fourth or 4.5 generation plane just based on IAF acquisition plans.

However the little details you have pointed to are the things that matter!
Sharing a small story (i'm re-collecting from memory and will hence take the liberty of putting it in my own words)
A group of press reporters asked Air Chief Marshal: which is the best fighter?
ACM (not willing to go into technicalities of the matter) decided to answer as follows:
He said: Assume yourself as a buyer in market for a car, you put the same question to yourself and ask which is the best car in market for you. You obviously will factor for your requirements (such as family size, use, travel habits etc) and most importantly your budget, to decide what is best for you.
Now assume you want your car to race with your neighbor's every weekend. Then you'll have to take into account his car, his capacity to finance upgrades etc. This is what is Dynamic threat perception or simply put maintaining competitive edge.
Further if you know that there is a little chance of race if you can have cordial relations with neighbor, you needn't spend all that much. this is called Peace Dividend.
Needless to say what is best for you may not be even suitable for someone else.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS: The word BEST is quite loosely used (especially here on forum). Sometimes when i think peacefully, may be one thing is better than other but as they tell in Mathematics lessons BEST is only an asymptote!
:cheers:
 
SU 30 MKI is almost comparable to SU 35,if these are upgraded to "Super" SUkhoi standard there is no need for SU 35s.

U are mistaken my comment or I quoted incomplete. Su35 MKI will be far more superior to super sukois. And talks are going on for 2 years

It became so AFTER IAF opted for 6 Rafales? because as far as i can remember when the project was of 126 planes Rafale were the best back then.
Please, i am not trying to troll or humiliate anyone but do have to point out the fast changing standards for "the best plane in the world"

No no its okay . I can understand where u are coming from to this conclusion.

The thing is Russian source on MMRCA finally vindicated at the time talks with French was going on for 126 rafale. The same Russian source said two su35 are already in India for 2 years trails are going on for upgraded version with full stealth features . Some of them will go to Super sukois . So I belive India and Russians are working of SU35 .Which they call it as su35 S . With more Air to ground role than multi role MKI .

So let's wait . Looks like Russians are very confident in Su30/35 platform . India still needs 80 some fighters for multi role . So having Super sukois and Su35 S would form back bone of out deep strike missions deep into China . Present MKI won't get enough for any reasonable offence inside Chinese airspace .
 
It became so AFTER IAF opted for 6 Rafales? because as far as i can remember when the project was of 126 planes Rafale were the best back then.
Please, i am not trying to troll or humiliate anyone but do have to point out the fast changing standards for "the best plane in the world"

SU cannot replace Rafael,one is a air superiority aircraft & other is a multirole one
 
SU cannot replace Rafael,one is a air superiority aircraft & other is a multirole one
Many time i have read we are going for 350 flankers . Maybe 80 of them are su35mki.right now su35 is best air superiority .eventually 35mki will be much better

Why the Indian Air Force has a high crash rate
SOURCE : RUSSIA & INDIA REPORT

AP10012315959_468.jpg


More than 200 Sukhoi Flankers currently form the core of the Indian Air Force’s strike element, for a planned force of over 272 Su-30 fighter-bombers. India received the initial batch of Sukhois in 2002. The first of these aircraft crashed in 2009, and since then five more have crashed.

Now let’s look at the Sukhois in other air forces.

The People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) has 150 Flankers of Russian origin and 229 Chinese knockoffs. That’s a total of 379 aircraft, for an eventual figure of 400 Russian made Flankers, derivatives and illegal copies. And yet the PLAAF has lost fewer Sukhoi in crashes. Are the Chinese Sukhois better maintained, better built or are Chinese pilots simply playing it safe? More on that in a moment.

The Russian Air Force has a total of 438 Flankers. Again, the Russian Sukhois don’t tumble out of the air at a rate close to the IAF’s. Similarly, there have been no reports of Flankers of the Vietnamese and Indonesian air forces being involved in crashes.

Why the Flanker force matters

The IAF calls the Su-30 its “air dominance” fighter for a good reason. The arrival of the Sukhoi has decisively tilted the balance of power in favour of the IAF in the region. The Flanker’s super-maneuverability, its armoury of advanced beyond visual range missiles and extraordinary range of 3000 km (extendable to 8000 km with aerial refuelling) are aspects that make it the wolf of the skies.

The Su-30 is also equipped with synthetic aperture radar (SAR), which gives it greater long-range reconnaissance capabilities. Armed with the SAR pod, the IAF Sukhois are known to engage in aggressive patrols along the China-India and India-Pakistan borders.

Considering the Flanker’s hunter killer reputation, anyone who questions its capability is clearly living under a rock.

So what explains the loss of six IAF Flankers in crashes? Let’s go into the various probable causes and also dissect the theories floating out there.

Crash No.1: 30 April 2009

The first ever Su-30MKI crashes in the Pokhran region, Rajasthan. The IAF’s Court of Inquiry establishes Wing Commander Vishwas Munje mistakenly switched off the warplane’s fly-by-wire system.

Crash No.2: 30 November 2009

Sukhoi crashes near Jaisalmer, Rajasthan, after a fire warning. An IAF investigation attributes it to accidental ingestion of a foreign object in the engine intake.

Crash No.3: 13 December 2011

Aircraft crashes 20 km from Pune. IAF says the crash is due to a malfunction in the fly-by-wire system.

Crash No.4: 19 February 2013

Aircraft’s right wing explodes over Pokhran, shortly after completing a training mission.

Crash No.5: 14 October 2013

Fly-by-wire system malfunctions yet again and the Sukhoi goes down near Pune. Russian experts blame pilot error but the IAF says the Court of Inquiry is yet to pinpoint exact reason.

Crash No.6: 19 May 2015

Su-30MKI flying from Tezpur in Assam develops a technical snag and the pilot is forced to abandon the aircraft. Cause is yet to be established.

Now that you have a good idea of what exactly happened in those six crashes, let’s look at the possible reasons why jet fighters crash in India.

Possible reason No.1: Intense training

The IAF is one of the few air forces in the world that conduct intense, year-round training. Benjamin Lambeth of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace says the IAF trains for a “high intensity, high stakes” conflict. Keeping in mind the possibility of a two-front war, the IAF puts its pilots and aircraft through the wringer.

Mock air combat can involve hundreds of aircraft flying thousands of kilometres. During such a war game in 2013, Sukhois flew 1800-km bombing missions from Chabua in Assam to the western front, with mid-air refuelling. In fact, IAF pilots are known to lead missions over 10 hours in their Sukhois.

Such training places a great deal of stress on aircraft, pilots and air crews, which means potentially more accidents. But that’s the way the IAF trains for war. In fact, a former air force chief has gone on record that he would rather lose pilots during training than during war.

The strategy has been amply rewarded. In the 1971 War, for instance, the IAF was able to conduct a wide range of missions – troop support; air combat; deep penetration strikes; para-dropping behind enemy lines; feints to draw enemy fighters away from the actual target; bombing; and reconnaissance.

In contrast, the Pakistan Air Force, which was solely focused on air combat, was blown out of the subcontinent’s skies within the first week of the war. Those PAF aircraft that survived took refuge at Iranian air bases or in concrete bunkers, refusing to offer a fight.

Similarly, the PLAAF has nearly 2,000 planes, but only a fraction of the peace-time accident rate. According to Foreign Policy, this suggests Chinese pilots are not spending sufficient time in the air or training under pressure. “(Chinese) pilots are neither trusted nor properly trained. Drills are regimented, centrally controlled, and divorced from realistic combat conditions.”

A PLAAF fighter pilot would most likely be reprimanded if he deviated from the flight plan set by his commanders. Losing a plane would be cause enough for a court martial.

Thankfully, the IAF does not believe in having robots but values superior training and innovativeness. IAF pilots have truly internalised what Sergei Dolgushin, a Russian Air Force ace with 24 victories in WWII, said is a prerequisite to be a successful fighter pilot: “A love of hunting, a great desire to be the top dog”.

Possible reason No.2: Harsh environment

Harsh is normal in India. Tropical India is an unforgiving environment for any aircraft. The hot air means aircraft engines produce less thrust and the wing produce less lift compared to similar aircraft flying in European skies. Sun baked runways are also known to impact landing safety. These are factors IAF pilots have to live with.

Bird hits are another huge factor in aircraft accidents over India. The IAFattributes around 10 per cent of accidents to bird hits. Most IAF bases are located near populated areas, where birds are a constant menace.

The situation has got so dire that the IAF last year issued global bids to four companies for 45 bird detection and monitoring radar systems to be installed at airports and air bases across India.

Possible reason No.3: Missing trainers

According to figures released by the Ministry of Defence in March 2013, the IAF was losing the equivalent of one fighter squadron (approximately 18 fighters) in accidents every two years. This was primarily because of the lack of adequate number of trainers.

Rookie fighter pilots begin on basic trainers, then move on to intermediate jet trainers (IJTs) before finally graduating to advanced jet trainers (AJTs). These three stages are critical elements of fighter pilot training and any shortcuts will certainly lead to disaster.

But what was happening was that in the absence of an AJT, rookie pilots were moving straight from the IJT to frontline warplanes such as the MiG-21. The upshot – young pilots died at an alarming rate.

With the induction of the Swiss Pilatus basic trainer and Hawk AJT from Britain, the crashes have come down – but not stopped.

Possible reason No.4: Shoddy maintenance

India is notorious for its ‘chalta hai’ or ‘it’ll be alright’ attitude. In this backdrop, shoddy maintenance could well be a factor. Although the IAF is known for its high standards, those standards are largely of its pilots; maintenance crews may not share that quality. Of late, there have been a number of incidents reported widely in the media about IAF ground crew involved in all sorts of serious crimes. The IAF should look at establishing an elite division of ground crews to service its high-end aircraft.

Possible reason No.5: Depleted air force

The IAF’s fleet strength is currently down to 34 squadrons or around 600 warplanes. The sanctioned number is 42 squadrons. In a country as vast as India, with multiple threats, such depletion in fighter aircraft means fewer aircraft have to perform more missions to get the same job done. It also means less down time in maintenance hangars. This is where India quickly needs to induct more locally built Tejas interceptors and more locally assembled Su-30s.

Silver lining

The good news is that aircraft crashes in the IAF have shown a declining trend over the last three years. From a high of 30 in fiscal 2011-12, they declined to six in 2012-13 and an equal number in 2013-14.

The IAF is now looking to improve overall fleet serviceability. The air force recently told a parliamentary committee that fleet-wide serviceability stood at 60-65 per cent, but could be increased to 77-80 per cent, provided spares were made available.

During a visit to Bangalore in December, IAF chief ACM Arup Raha said: “Budgets remain a constraint, especially the revenue budget, to maintain spares for the aircraft to maintain high operational readiness.”

While the IAF is clearly doing its best under the circumstances, it needs to do better. Bringing the crash rate down to US or European air force levels should be the goal. Losing a Sukhoi each year is akin to burning Rs 350 crore in cash


Same source . Shedding some lights on flanker accidents.
 

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