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Opinion: Pakistan must become an authoritarian state to progress

Aspen

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I posted this in the Musharraf thread but I'm gonna post it here too

Musharraf was right about Judiciary , Lawyers e.t.c . Time has proved it .

Pakistan needs to be ruled by the military and it has always been better this way. Military knows how to run this country with an iron fist and that is when Pakistan as a nation will progress.

Democracy only works in countries where your population is intelligent enough to make sensible decisions. If your awaam is foolish and easily manipulated, democracy is a like a bomb waiting to go off. Putting decisions in the hands of your foolish awaam will ruin your nation and criminals will loot a weak democracy and corrupt it to the core. Politicians are so busy trying to gain power for themselves that they will make up fake scandals to create opposition. These criminal politicians will do everything they can to prevent, block, and slow down the gov't from implementing obvious and basic reforms that will help the nation. Democracy in Pakistan is a curse that will hold this nation back from achieving its full potential. China would never have become China if it was a democracy.

Military should take full power of every aspect of the state of Pakistan and root out all these corrupt criminals and mafia with an iron fist.

Shoot everyone in the bhutto, sharif and zardari family.

Every transaction greater than 500Rs requires CNIC, or NTN. Every business need to register and get a proper license.

Karachi under federal rule. Hyderabad new capital of Sindh.

Hazara province.

South Punjab province. Create a new city adjacent to Multan that will act as the capital.

Spend 5% of GDP on health. Spend 5% of GDP on education.

New Pakistan requires a new constitution.

Pakistan is now a one party authoritarian state, with the government having total control.

Proceed to liquidate the old order, wipe out the political elite and acquire all their lands and buisnesses.

Televised hangings and amputations of criminals who laundered billions of rupees from the international exchequer on PTV and all the world to see.

Privatize steel mill

MRAP for soldiers on Durand line

Media ethics will be strictly enforced any journalist who is a repeat offender will get his license revoked and will do 5 years in prison

Tough action against international NGO's stepping outside their mandate

High taxes on property above a certain value

Decrease redtape for setting up business

A purge in judiciary against Iftikhar elements

Abolish feudalism

Capital Punishment for corrupt politicians and high level officials

Increase our lobbying in the Gulf, America and the EU
 
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I posted this in the Musharraf thread but I'm gonna post it here too



Pakistan needs to be ruled by the military and it has always been better this way. Military knows how to run this country with an iron fist and that is when Pakistan as a nation will progress.

Democracy only works in countries where your population is intelligent enough to make sensible decisions. If your awaam is foolish and easily manipulated, democracy is a like a bomb waiting to go off. Putting decisions in the hands of your foolish awaam will ruin your nation and criminals will loot a weak democracy and corrupt it to the core. Politicians are so busy trying to gain power for themselves that they will make up fake scandals to create opposition. These criminal politicians will do everything they can to prevent, block, and slow down the gov't from implementing obvious and basic reforms that will help the nation. Democracy in Pakistan is a curse that will hold this nation back from achieving its full potential. China would never have become China if it was a democracy.

Military should take full power of every aspect of the state of Pakistan and root out all these corrupt criminals and mafia with an iron fist.

Shoot everyone in the bhutto, sharif and zardari family.

Every transaction greater than 500Rs requires CNIC, or NTN. Every business need to register and get a proper license.

Karachi under federal rule. Hyderabad new capital of Sindh.

Hazara province.

South Punjab province. Create a new city adjacent to Multan that will act as the capital.

Spend 5% of GDP on health. Spend 5% of GDP on education.

New Pakistan requires a new constitution.

Pakistan is now a one party authoritarian state, with the government having total control.

Proceed to liquidate the old order, wipe out the political elite and acquire all their lands and buisnesses.

Televised hangings and amputations of criminals who laundered billions of rupees from the international exchequer on PTV and all the world to see.

Privatize steel mill

MRAP for soldiers on Durand line

Media ethics will be strictly enforced any journalist who is a repeat offender will get his license revoked and will do 5 years in prison

Tough action against international NGO's stepping outside their mandate

High taxes on property above a certain value

Decrease redtape for setting up business

A purge in judiciary against Iftikhar elements

Abolish feudalism

Capital Punishment for corrupt politicians and high level officials

Increase our lobbying in the Gulf, America and the EU
If only army was made of angels with no fallacies of their own.
 
I posted this in the Musharraf thread but I'm gonna post it here too



Pakistan needs to be ruled by the military and it has always been better this way. Military knows how to run this country with an iron fist and that is when Pakistan as a nation will progress.

Democracy only works in countries where your population is intelligent enough to make sensible decisions. If your awaam is foolish and easily manipulated, democracy is a like a bomb waiting to go off. Putting decisions in the hands of your foolish awaam will ruin your nation and criminals will loot a weak democracy and corrupt it to the core. Politicians are so busy trying to gain power for themselves that they will make up fake scandals to create opposition. These criminal politicians will do everything they can to prevent, block, and slow down the gov't from implementing obvious and basic reforms that will help the nation. Democracy in Pakistan is a curse that will hold this nation back from achieving its full potential. China would never have become China if it was a democracy.

Military should take full power of every aspect of the state of Pakistan and root out all these corrupt criminals and mafia with an iron fist.

Shoot everyone in the bhutto, sharif and zardari family.

Every transaction greater than 500Rs requires CNIC, or NTN. Every business need to register and get a proper license.

Karachi under federal rule. Hyderabad new capital of Sindh.

Hazara province.

South Punjab province. Create a new city adjacent to Multan that will act as the capital.

Spend 5% of GDP on health. Spend 5% of GDP on education.

New Pakistan requires a new constitution.

Pakistan is now a one party authoritarian state, with the government having total control.

Proceed to liquidate the old order, wipe out the political elite and acquire all their lands and buisnesses.

Televised hangings and amputations of criminals who laundered billions of rupees from the international exchequer on PTV and all the world to see.

Privatize steel mill

MRAP for soldiers on Durand line

Media ethics will be strictly enforced any journalist who is a repeat offender will get his license revoked and will do 5 years in prison

Tough action against international NGO's stepping outside their mandate

High taxes on property above a certain value

Decrease redtape for setting up business

A purge in judiciary against Iftikhar elements

Abolish feudalism

Capital Punishment for corrupt politicians and high level officials

Increase our lobbying in the Gulf, America and the EU

Authoritarian rule has its share of problems as well. Recently we r getting blind by china's success but there r too many failures of authoritarian rules to ignore. For example iraq, iran, gulf states. Take the oil out of them and they will disolve within a year.

Who will guarantee that supreme leader will be working for interest of the nation.

Imagine someone like zardari or north koreas leader comes to power ...

Infact if u study deep a lot of problems are due to interventions in democracy. Sharief zardari altaf all are gift of armed forces and were never a true leaders. They were created to keep politicians fighting with each other.
 
Absolute authority is a disaster waiting to happen. It works in communist governments because of different reasons. Not so for our socio/religious/economic order.
 
Authoritarian rule has its share of problems as well. Recently we r getting blind by china's success but there r too many failures of authoritarian rules to ignore. For example iraq, iran, gulf states. Take the oil out of them and they will disolve within a year.

Who will guarantee that supreme leader will be working for interest of the nation.

Imagine someone like zardari or north koreas leader comes to power ...

Infact if u study deep a lot of problems are due to interventions in democracy. Sharief zardari altaf all are gift of armed forces and were never a true leaders. They were created to keep politicians fighting with each other.

Civilian government does not have the balls to do what is right for Pakistan. Military does.

Authoritarian rule is not perfect but it will be much better than being stuck in a ditch like right now.

Opposition parties will never act in the interest of Pakistan. They will block critical reforms needed for the country to succeed. We will never solve this problem as long as politicians are there to obstruct anyone and anything. Authoritarian control of the state is needed to abolish these criminal mafias and complete these essential reforms. There is no other way to do it.
 
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Democracy works only for very intelligent people with a lot of knowledge and information. Japan, Singapore and South Korea both used authoritarian governments to progress until where they are and some leave authoritarian model like Japan after the war and some still authoritarian like South Korea and Singapore. China too following these methods and abandon Soviet methods to mix Soviet philosophies of Marx and Stalin with Mao's philosophy and traditional Chinese ones such as Emperor's place as God's representation or in Chinese "son of heaven" to have heaven's mandate. Then after Mao, Deng Xiaoping learned somethings from Li Kuang Yu from Singapore and looked at South Korea. Other countries which have not managed to improve much but is very authoritarian is only Vietnam. Everyone else is like democratic in west or just more corrupt and starting from more poor state so can never match Europe or America. It is impossible to catch up because this game is fixed against poor countries. Only chance is to organize your entire country and people in a clever way that suits your culture and then adopt and immediately take all knowledge and technology until you can compete. Otherwise forever poor. Capitalist world will never share knowledge and technology for free and Europeans already used gun to murder and steal their way in past to get enough advantage and early head start when it comes to modern technology. European enlightenment and abandoning religion is first to this and allowed them first abilities to colonize the world. Now today.

For example Iran is country with the knowledge in science and technology if they can cooperate with world. USA does not allow them to do this so it's not fair. Like everyone else can trade, cooperate, and share work but Iran is alone with only some friendly countries who can sometimes sneak cooperation with it when USA is not looking. If they are allowed to do this, they will be just like China in development and economy but of course very different culture which is good. China goes against all USA wishes and makes itself into biggest enemy but in the past USA thinks it is too weak and poor and backwards. Today it is called biggest threat to all humans and countries and all writing is full of negative aspects only. It's almost illegal to think and talk of countries like Russia, China, or Iran in any positive way because they are different.

Pakistan also similar example because it has some smart people and if organized properly it can really progress faster. Of course it's up to rest of world to cooperate and trade and make our own partnership so we don't only can listen to Europe/USA on how to do everything. How can we ever compete with them? Will be like university students with access to all knowledge and material and money to buy books competing with year 7 students with no money and the university kids do not let you cooperate or get rich enough to afford books. It doesn't matter if university kids are actually dumb and you are smart. You will never reach them. Like working a Mcdonalds for $15/hour and hoping after 40 years you can buy a nice house and car but in 40 years time when you save $1 million that house and car become $20 million.
 
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Solution to our problems is not that we need a dictatorship.
Our Democratic system is messed up hotchpotch of colinial era system and modifications to it.
We have not transformed into a modern state.
Heck we cant even get rid if colonial provinces and legacy.
Get rid of provinces. Make Divisions and districts empowered.
Elected Divisional Governers with strong local bodies. Along with directly elected president having handpicked cabinet. And let us see how Pakistan is held back.
with this confused system and constitution, We cannot become developed even in 100 years. MNAs MPAs governere Country sized provinces, DCOs and ACs on district level, weak prime minister blackmailed by elected cabinet etc etc etc.
What a Hot Mess this is
 
Democracy works only for very intelligent people with a lot of knowledge and information. Japan, Singapore and South Korea both used authoritarian governments to progress until where they are and some leave authoritarian model like Japan after the war and some still authoritarian like South Korea and Singapore. China too following these methods and abandon Soviet methods to mix Soviet philosophies of Marx and Stalin with Mao's philosophy and traditional Chinese ones such as Emperor's place as God's representation or in Chinese "son of heaven" to have heaven's mandate. Then after Mao, Deng Xiaoping learned somethings from Li Kuang Yu from Singapore and looked at South Korea. Other countries which have not managed to improve much but is very authoritarian is only Vietnam. Everyone else is like democratic in west or just more corrupt and starting from more poor state so can never match Europe or America. It is impossible to catch up because this game is fixed against poor countries. Only chance is to organize your entire country and people in a clever way that suits your culture and then adopt and immediately take all knowledge and technology until you can compete. Otherwise forever poor. Capitalist world will never share knowledge and technology for free and Europeans already used gun to murder and steal their way in past to get enough advantage and early head start when it comes to modern technology. European enlightenment and abandoning religion is first to this and allowed them first abilities to colonize the world. Now today.

Exactly. Every country that is a "democracy" today had to use authoritarian leadership to get to a point where they were developed enough to allow a democracy. Installing a democracy before your population catches up is a recipe for disaster. The efficiency of an authoritarian government to take action quickly and without opposition is worth whatever downsides it has. An authoritarian government is the only way to catch up to developed powers. China would never have caught up to America if China was a democracy. Pakistan's best years were during military rule. Civilian governments have been the worst years of Pakistan. Nobody can deny this.

Solution to our problems is not that we need a dictatorship.
Our Democratic system is messed up hotchpotch of colinial era system and modifications to it.
We have not transformed into a modern state.
Heck we cant even get rid if colonial provinces and legacy.
Get rid of provinces. Make Divisions and districts empowered.
Elected Divisional Governers with strong local bodies. Along with directly elected president having handpicked cabinet. And let us see how Pakistan is held back.
with this confused system and constitution, We cannot become developed even in 100 years. MNAs MPAs governere Country sized provinces, DCOs and ACs on district level, weak prime minister blackmailed by elected cabinet etc etc etc.
What a Hot Mess this is

You are proving my point exactly why we need an authoritarian government.

How the hell do you think are going to be able to implement even a single one of these reforms with a civilian government? Opposition will block all of them even though they are essential for Pakistan to reform.

You need an authoritarian government to implement these reforms. There is no other way to do it.

If we want to bring back democracy after these reforms are done, so be it. But until then, Pakistan needs a major revolution in government to fix the damage that has been done to this nation.

Indeed what a Hot Mess this is
 
Civilian government does not have the balls to do what is right for Pakistan. Military does.

Authoritarian rule is not perfect but it will be much better than being stuck in a ditch like right now.

Opposition parties will never act in the interest of Pakistan. They will block critical reforms needed for the country to succeed. We will never solve this problem as long as politicians are there to obstruct anyone and anything. Authoritarian control of the state is needed to abolish these criminal mafias and complete these essential reforms. There is no other way to do it.
  1. What balls? Bangladesh was created due to drunken army chief.
  2. Nawaz Sharif was son of Zia ul Haq imposed on us.
  3. MQM was created to counter PPP and Jamat in Karachi.
  4. MQM haqeqi was created by ISI to break MQM resulted in murders of thousands of Karachi guys and destruction of Karachi for 2 decades.
  5. Zardari was allowed to get into power by Musharaf to save his own a**.
  6. The balls shown by Musharaf after 9/11 resulted in not only lost of strategic depth in Afghanistan but also we had to entered into a foreign war cost us lives and economy. American themselves admitted that they couldn't believe the demands accepted by Musharaf as they were sure that Pakistan will not admit all the demands.
  7. Army is their to defend the country and should stick to the job. We respect and love them for this.
 
Exactly. Every country that is a "democracy" today had to use authoritarian leadership to get to a point where they were developed enough to allow a democracy. Installing a democracy before your population catches up is a recipe for disaster. The efficiency of an authoritarian government to take action quickly and without opposition is worth whatever downsides it has. An authoritarian government is the only way to catch up to developed powers. China would never have caught up to America if China was a democracy. Pakistan's best years were during military rule. Civilian governments have been the worst years of Pakistan. Nobody can deny this.

Yes or they have enlightenment back in 17th century era and then used military to take everything for free and also murdered hundreds of millions over several hundred years and take all their things by force. This is worse than learning from others and even copying their ideas. So what. Everyone at some stage must learn and copy until they master those rules and can break them and improve and invent. No one go from nothing and idiot to genius and inventor without some hard work and maybe "illegal" things. Illegal because the owners don't want you to compete with them on same level and create fake laws to protect those things they consider is their's but really belongs to nobody. Anyway I hope all humans can get wealthy and we can one day solve our energy and material problems and evolve to become better. Right now western countries just want to keep everything for themselves and call everyone names. Then north Africa and middle east refugees must escape to Europe because of poverty Europe is also some responsible and at least most wars totally responsible. 20 years ago I knew this will happen and after 2000, yes so many refugees must migrate even more than in the past. Situation will become much worse and I don't feel sorry for Europeans, they create so much of this mess without even realizing they have done and Americans too. For example to get into wars for Israel.
 
I posted this in the Musharraf thread but I'm gonna post it here too



Pakistan needs to be ruled by the military and it has always been better this way. Military knows how to run this country with an iron fist and that is when Pakistan as a nation will progress.

Democracy only works in countries where your population is intelligent enough to make sensible decisions. If your awaam is foolish and easily manipulated, democracy is a like a bomb waiting to go off. Putting decisions in the hands of your foolish awaam will ruin your nation and criminals will loot a weak democracy and corrupt it to the core. Politicians are so busy trying to gain power for themselves that they will make up fake scandals to create opposition. These criminal politicians will do everything they can to prevent, block, and slow down the gov't from implementing obvious and basic reforms that will help the nation. Democracy in Pakistan is a curse that will hold this nation back from achieving its full potential. China would never have become China if it was a democracy.

Military should take full power of every aspect of the state of Pakistan and root out all these corrupt criminals and mafia with an iron fist.

Shoot everyone in the bhutto, sharif and zardari family.

Every transaction greater than 500Rs requires CNIC, or NTN. Every business need to register and get a proper license.

Karachi under federal rule. Hyderabad new capital of Sindh.

Hazara province.

South Punjab province. Create a new city adjacent to Multan that will act as the capital.

Spend 5% of GDP on health. Spend 5% of GDP on education.

New Pakistan requires a new constitution.

Pakistan is now a one party authoritarian state, with the government having total control.

Proceed to liquidate the old order, wipe out the political elite and acquire all their lands and buisnesses.

Televised hangings and amputations of criminals who laundered billions of rupees from the international exchequer on PTV and all the world to see.

Privatize steel mill

MRAP for soldiers on Durand line

Media ethics will be strictly enforced any journalist who is a repeat offender will get his license revoked and will do 5 years in prison

Tough action against international NGO's stepping outside their mandate

High taxes on property above a certain value

Decrease redtape for setting up business

A purge in judiciary against Iftikhar elements

Abolish feudalism

Capital Punishment for corrupt politicians and high level officials

Increase our lobbying in the Gulf, America and the EU

I agree with above except rule by military. Pakistani military is liked being in Rawal Pindi and not Islamabad.
 
Exactly. Every country that is a "democracy" today had to use authoritarian leadership to get to a point where they were developed enough to allow a democracy. Installing a democracy before your population catches up is a recipe for disaster. The efficiency of an authoritarian government to take action quickly and without opposition is worth whatever downsides it has. An authoritarian government is the only way to catch up to developed powers. China would never have caught up to America if China was a democracy. Pakistan's best years were during military rule. Civilian governments have been the worst years of Pakistan. Nobody can deny this.



You are proving my point exactly why we need an authoritarian government.

How the hell do you think are going to be able to implement even a single one of these reforms with a civilian government? Opposition will block all of them even though they are essential for Pakistan to reform.

You need an authoritarian government to implement these reforms. There is no other way to do it.

If we want to bring back democracy after these reforms are done, so be it. But until then, Pakistan needs a major revolution in government to fix the damage that has been done to this nation.

Indeed what a Hot Mess this is

Which best year are you talking about man ?

Excet for Ayub military rule was disaster.

  1. We lost Bangladesh during army rule
  2. Kilashankoof culture was brought in by Zia's policy otherwise we were very peaceful country.
  3. In order to control politics ZIA brought artificial leader like Sharif into power.
  4. Musharaf is responsible for f**kup 9/11 that we had to fight for 2 decades in the name of war on terror.
the list can go on as long as you want.
 
But also keep in mind that revolution is very dangerous and unstable. You want to learn from China's mistakes in the past and avoid bad decisions and bad leaders. It's quite difficult because in early time of revolutions it is always anti-intellectual type people with only emotions and anger. CCP today is so different to CCP in 1960s and that also different to 1980s. Countries like Russia and China learned some hard lessons so worth study with open mind and unbiased attitude. This way maybe effective overhaul of political structure is possible with minimum disruption and no violence. Even Korea and Singapore's overhauls of politics had some violence and unstable but they both did better job than China which I guess had too many people of very different views. We had civil war and today continue to have ROC vs PRC political war.
 
  1. What balls? Bangladesh was created due to drunken army chief.
  2. Nawaz Sharif was son of Zia ul Haq imposed on us.
  3. MQM was created to counter PPP and Jamat in Karachi.
  4. MQM haqeqi was created by ISI to break MQM resulted in murders of thousands of Karachi guys and destruction of Karachi for 2 decades.
  5. Zardari was allowed to get into power by Musharaf to save his own a**.
  6. The balls shown by Musharaf after 9/11 resulted in not only lost of strategic depth in Afghanistan but also we had to entered into a foreign war cost us lives and economy. American themselves admitted that they couldn't believe the demands accepted by Musharaf as they were sure that Pakistan will not admit all the demands.
  7. Army is their to defend the country and should stick to the job. We respect and love them for this.

1. Bhutto was the fool who ignited it.
2. Sharif is civilian gov't
3. Military could have wiped out both
4. Karachi is a mess because its Karachi
5. Zardari is civilian gov't
6. Afghan war was a lose-lose situation
7. Military gov't has a a better track record
 
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