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No, President Trump, the Paris Agreement Does Not Let China and India Steal Our Coal Jobs

Zibago

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No, President Trump, the Paris Agreement Does Not Let China and India Steal Our Coal Jobs
By Jonathan ChaitShare
Trump was never going to support the Paris climate agreement because a collective-action problem is one of the concepts he is unable to grasp. Paris is built around ameliorating a problem affecting the entire world. Trump only understands zero-sum logic. His speech announcing his decision to exit the agreement fell back on the nationalistic rhetoric of denouncing foreign plunder.

The deal is “a massive redistribution of wealth from the U.S. to other countries,” he insisted. China “can do whatever they want for 13 years,” he insisted. The agreement “doesn’t eliminate coal jobs, it ships them out of the country,” to developing countries, which will get an “economic edge” over America.

Trump’s description of the agreement is so wildly at odds with reality that one must begin by reestablishing some basic foundation of reality. The first attempt to create a transnational climate agreement, the Kyoto Accord, applied exclusively to industrialized countries, on the grounds that they accounted for most of the carbon dioxide emissions. Eventually, this approach proved unrealistic, in part because the rapid industrialization of developing countries — especially China, with India following along — meant that developing countries must be brought in. The industrialized world has to rapidly decarbonize, and emerging economies have to create greener paths to industrialization.

So any agreement to limit climate change has to be international. And any agreement by necessity is going to treat developing countries differently than developed countries. The United States emits several times more carbon dioxide per capita than India or China, and enjoys a dramatically higher standard of living.

It was never realistic to expect an agreement that would persuade those countries to reduce their carbon intensity from current levels, given that those levels are so much lower. Indeed, for many years this has been the conservative argument against doing anything about climate change. Getting developing countries to reduce emissions would “keep the poor in the dark,” consigning the starving masses of Asia and Africa to grinding poverty. (Conservatives care oh so much about Third World Poverty, as everybody knows.) Paris had to fail because it was too harsh on China and India.

These predictions have been nullified. They failed because they all denied the possibility of technological progress, instead assuming coal would remain the only affordable electricity source. Instead, green energy sources have actually grown competitive with fossil fuels. In places like India, solar is now considerably cheaper than coal.

Trump has reversed the only objection to Paris. It is no longer too harsh on India and China. Now it is too lax, allowing them to luxuriate in endless supplies of beautiful coal while our own people are denied the bounties of this wondrous fuel:

China will be allowed to build hundreds of additional coal plants. So, we can’t build the plants, but they can, according to this agreement. India will be allowed to double its coal production by 2020. Think of it. India can double their coal production.
China is canceling plans to build new coal plants, and its coal use has already begun to decline. Trump’s assertion that Paris does not impose any commitments upon China until 2030 is likewise false; the country has pledged a massive buildup of zero-emission energy and is following through. India is doing the same thing, and its coal industry is in free fall, in part because running existing coal plants there costs more money than building new solar ones. Meanwhile, coal plants have shut down in the United States not because of the Paris agreement but because other energy sources, especially but not exclusively natural gas, cost less to produce.

To call Trump’s speech a pack of lies is to grant him the probably undeserved compliment of assuming he knows better. The entire case was false — the facts, the logic, the understanding of what the agreement he opposes is even attempting to do.

TAGS:
 
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The Donald would no doubt yell: "Fake news" ?
[... not letting political agende be hindered by facts]
:whistle:
:rolleyes1:
Climate change is a hoax by gloabalists you jihadi,anti-life commie :D
 
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Climate change is a hoax by gloabalists you jihadi,anti-life commie :D
Nuclear glowball-ists?
glow-ball-in-hand-psd77821.png
 
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A globalist super saiyan
hqdefault.jpg
my spicy headlined Alex Jones show

The Death of Globalism is Here, Trump Blows Paris Accord Out of the Water

thread got stuck in auto moderation :mad:

guess I'll just pollute your thread and post it here.


In 'murrican politics, he's no worse than Jenk on the left, Jenk is kind of the Alex Jones of the left lol

watch both innings to properly enjoy the game :partay:
 
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my spicy headlined Alex Jones show

The Death of Globalism is Here, Trump Blows Paris Accord Out of the Water

thread got stuck in auto moderation :mad:

guess I'll just pollute your thread and post it here.


In 'murrican politics, he's no worse than Jenk on the left, Jenk is kind of the Alex Jones of the left lol

watch both innings to properly enjoy the game :partay:
This guy?
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/funny-alex-jones-clip-compilation.488798/
He is a lunatic
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/alex-jones-trial-ends_us_59024d96e4b0bb2d086c2f0c
 
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No, President Trump, the Paris Agreement Does Not Let China and India Steal Our Coal Jobs
By Jonathan ChaitShare
Trump was never going to support the Paris climate agreement because a collective-action problem is one of the concepts he is unable to grasp. Paris is built around ameliorating a problem affecting the entire world. Trump only understands zero-sum logic. His speech announcing his decision to exit the agreement fell back on the nationalistic rhetoric of denouncing foreign plunder.

The deal is “a massive redistribution of wealth from the U.S. to other countries,” he insisted. China “can do whatever they want for 13 years,” he insisted. The agreement “doesn’t eliminate coal jobs, it ships them out of the country,” to developing countries, which will get an “economic edge” over America.

Trump’s description of the agreement is so wildly at odds with reality that one must begin by reestablishing some basic foundation of reality. The first attempt to create a transnational climate agreement, the Kyoto Accord, applied exclusively to industrialized countries, on the grounds that they accounted for most of the carbon dioxide emissions. Eventually, this approach proved unrealistic, in part because the rapid industrialization of developing countries — especially China, with India following along — meant that developing countries must be brought in. The industrialized world has to rapidly decarbonize, and emerging economies have to create greener paths to industrialization.

So any agreement to limit climate change has to be international. And any agreement by necessity is going to treat developing countries differently than developed countries. The United States emits several times more carbon dioxide per capita than India or China, and enjoys a dramatically higher standard of living.

It was never realistic to expect an agreement that would persuade those countries to reduce their carbon intensity from current levels, given that those levels are so much lower. Indeed, for many years this has been the conservative argument against doing anything about climate change. Getting developing countries to reduce emissions would “keep the poor in the dark,” consigning the starving masses of Asia and Africa to grinding poverty. (Conservatives care oh so much about Third World Poverty, as everybody knows.) Paris had to fail because it was too harsh on China and India.

These predictions have been nullified. They failed because they all denied the possibility of technological progress, instead assuming coal would remain the only affordable electricity source. Instead, green energy sources have actually grown competitive with fossil fuels. In places like India, solar is now considerably cheaper than coal.

Trump has reversed the only objection to Paris. It is no longer too harsh on India and China. Now it is too lax, allowing them to luxuriate in endless supplies of beautiful coal while our own people are denied the bounties of this wondrous fuel:

China will be allowed to build hundreds of additional coal plants. So, we can’t build the plants, but they can, according to this agreement. India will be allowed to double its coal production by 2020. Think of it. India can double their coal production.
China is canceling plans to build new coal plants, and its coal use has already begun to decline. Trump’s assertion that Paris does not impose any commitments upon China until 2030 is likewise false; the country has pledged a massive buildup of zero-emission energy and is following through. India is doing the same thing, and its coal industry is in free fall, in part because running existing coal plants there costs more money than building new solar ones. Meanwhile, coal plants have shut down in the United States not because of the Paris agreement but because other energy sources, especially but not exclusively natural gas, cost less to produce.

To call Trump’s speech a pack of lies is to grant him the probably undeserved compliment of assuming he knows better. The entire case was false — the facts, the logic, the understanding of what the agreement he opposes is even attempting to do.

TAGS:

But if what they are saying about China and India's declining coal use is a non-issue then why was it not written into the agreement? Just add it in and Trump has no argument to make. Right now it is a 13 year amnesty. The US already has declining coal use. It's not like we are going to start opening new ones. We just aren't going to rush to close old ones if other large users have no reason to rush.

Let's all hope fusion is around the corner.
 
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why don't you watch a few full shows and see what he's actually talking about as opposed to clip compilations from clearly ideologically driven partisan websites like huffpost ?

you might still find him a tinfoil hat wearing right wing lunatic but at least your opinion would be better informed then.

either way, he's very entertaining, and he has a lot of things right, he's even had Hamid Gul on to talk about stuff... (deja vu)

.. if he wasn't right about stuff that people resonated with, Colbert and all the rest of them big league guys wouldn't be concentrating their firepower on him the way they are with Tuck Buckford etc, which are hilarious too.

also, I never switched off the TV when Syed Anwar and Inzy would be thrashing our weak daal khor bowlers.

----------------------------------------

here's that Hamid Gul interview:

@Zibago
 
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It's not like we are going to start opening new ones.
Mr Trump just said i am bringing coal back
why don't you watch a few full shows and see what he's actually talking about as opposed to clip compilations from clearly ideologically driven partisan websites like huffpost ?
I have listened to few of his shows on terrorism they are no different from Bill o Reilly the only difference is Billy didnt claim that obama wants to ship people in hobbit homes or Hillary was giving birth to aliens :D
either way, he's very entertaining,
To a degree true that fight with Piers Morgan was very entertaining :D
.. if he wasn't right about stuff that people resonated with, Colbert and all the rest of them big league guys wouldn't be concentrating their firepower on him the way they are with Tuck Buckford etc, which are hilarious too.
His strange behavior makes him a target for comedians
 
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I have listened to few of his shows on terrorism they are no different from Bill o Reilly the only difference is Billy didnt claim that obama wants to ship people in hobbit homes or Hillary was giving birth to aliens :D
He's clearly taking the piss with the crooked h vid there.

Satire and going into a frenzy is part of his act.

Alex actually has a more nuanced view about geopolitics and terrorism, he goes after what he calls the "islamicists and wahhabiists" and blames saudi arabia for it, and he's right there.

the saudis are the problem.

To a degree true that fight with Piers Morgan was very entertaining :D
Piers got his highest ratings ever that night.

His strange behavior makes him a target for comedians
His epic rants are epic. Here's a couple.



:lol:
 
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