Modi govt to fast track 1.5 billion dollar deal : Army to get 197 light utility helicopters

[Indo-guy]

Narendra Modi govt to fast-track $1.5-bn deal, Army to get 197 light utility helicopters - Financial Express


The Modi government is set to fast-track a $1.5-billion deal to acquire 197 light utility helicopters (LUH) for the army. The award of the contract was stuck with the previous UPA government, the latest delay coming after the controversy over buying helicopters for VVIP use surfaced.
Sources told FE that a fresh request for proposal (RFP) for the chopper deal will be issued by the new government within a month's time. Defence minister Arun Jaitley has already been been briefed about the delayed/on hold projects, including the procurement of the LUHs.
Once the RFP process is competed, it would take another two to three years before the first helicopter is delivered. The delays in the previous rounds of bidding have already hurt the army badly as it has been searching for a modern helicopter to replace the aging Cheetah/Chetak helicopter. Most of these are already running on an extended lease of life and need immediate replacement.
With defence as one of the priority areas for the BJP-led government, it is widely expected to clear the policy logjam and speed up the award of critical projects including the much-delayed $20-billion medium multi-role combat aircraft or MMRCA deal.
The process to replace the Cheetah/Chetak helicopters – which undertake patrol, reconnaissance and evacuation missions in forward locations and high-altitude areas like Siachen – had been cancelled twice earlier by the UPA government and initiated afresh only to be put on hold again after the AgustaWestland row came to light where allegations were levelled that the deal was being designed to favour the Italian defence major.
As a consequence, the army had requested the ministry to delay the acquisition process and the Director General (Acquisition) had asked Eurocopter and Kamov to extend their bids offer till the end of 2013. Two rounds of trials of aircraft from these companies had already taken place at a substantial cost. The procurement of the 197 light helicopters has been dogged by technical problems as well. In 2003, India issued an RFP, estimating a deal worth $500-600 million to buy 60 helicopters outright, with the remaining 137 being built under licence by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL). Eurocopter's AS550 C3 Fennec and Bell Textron's 407 competed in the second and final round of summer trials, and in 2007 the process ended up completely derailed.
A new RFP out for a successor "Reconnaissance and Surveillance Helicopter programme" (RSH) went out in 2008, and testing was done in 2010. Sources confirmed "both the Eurocopter's Fennec and its competitor, the Russian Kamov Ka-226T, have not completely met the specifications". However, a technical panel has studied the deviations and made certain recommendations to the MoD. The decisions made have not been accepted by the Defence Acquisition Council, said the sources.
According to the last RFP issued by the MoD, initially 60 helicopters will be acquired off the shelf and the balance will be manufactured in India under licence by the HAL.
However, HAL has since claimed that it had developed its own LUH, and that the 3-tonne aircraft will roll off its assembly line by 2015. With the state-run company entering the fray, though still not a part of the RFP process, the entire process may take an interesting turn.

 

[Koovie]

Good going

 

[illusion8]

Which heli is / would be the front runner for this?.

@Abingdonboy, @sancho.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Narendra Modi govt to fast-track $1.5-bn deal, Army to get 197 light utility helicopters - Financial Express


The Modi government is set to fast-track a $1.5-billion deal to acquire 197 light utility helicopters (LUH) for the army. The award of the contract was stuck with the previous UPA government, the latest delay coming after the controversy over buying helicopters for VVIP use surfaced.
Sources told FE that a fresh request for proposal (RFP) for the chopper deal will be issued by the new government within a month's time. Defence minister Arun Jaitley has already been been briefed about the delayed/on hold projects, including the procurement of the LUHs.
Once the RFP process is competed, it would take another two to three years before the first helicopter is delivered. The delays in the previous rounds of bidding have already hurt the army badly as it has been searching for a modern helicopter to replace the aging Cheetah/Chetak helicopter. Most of these are already running on an extended lease of life and need immediate replacement.
With defence as one of the priority areas for the BJP-led government, it is widely expected to clear the policy logjam and speed up the award of critical projects including the much-delayed $20-billion medium multi-role combat aircraft or MMRCA deal.
The process to replace the Cheetah/Chetak helicopters – which undertake patrol, reconnaissance and evacuation missions in forward locations and high-altitude areas like Siachen – had been cancelled twice earlier by the UPA government and initiated afresh only to be put on hold again after the AgustaWestland row came to light where allegations were levelled that the deal was being designed to favour the Italian defence major.
As a consequence, the army had requested the ministry to delay the acquisition process and the Director General (Acquisition) had asked Eurocopter and Kamov to extend their bids offer till the end of 2013. Two rounds of trials of aircraft from these companies had already taken place at a substantial cost. The procurement of the 197 light helicopters has been dogged by technical problems as well. In 2003, India issued an RFP, estimating a deal worth $500-600 million to buy 60 helicopters outright, with the remaining 137 being built under licence by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL). Eurocopter's AS550 C3 Fennec and Bell Textron's 407 competed in the second and final round of summer trials, and in 2007 the process ended up completely derailed.
A new RFP out for a successor "Reconnaissance and Surveillance Helicopter programme" (RSH) went out in 2008, and testing was done in 2010. Sources confirmed "both the Eurocopter's Fennec and its competitor, the Russian Kamov Ka-226T, have not completely met the specifications". However, a technical panel has studied the deviations and made certain recommendations to the MoD. The decisions made have not been accepted by the Defence Acquisition Council, said the sources.
According to the last RFP issued by the MoD, initially 60 helicopters will be acquired off the shelf and the balance will be manufactured in India under licence by the HAL.
However, HAL has since claimed that it had developed its own LUH, and that the 3-tonne aircraft will roll off its assembly line by 2015. With the state-run company entering the fray, though still not a part of the RFP process, the entire process may take an interesting turn.

Good news, very good news! I had just read that the Cheetah/Cheetals were facing a terminal shortage of spare parts (specifically the rotor blades) meaning the fleet is on its way out one way or another and with the last RSH competition stuck in no mans land no replacement was forthcoming. This was one of the projects that urgently needed to be pushed through by the new govt.

Interesting that they are scrapping the old competition and re-tendering it. The fast-tracking promise is welcome but we'll have to wait and see how fast this really is because honestly the replacements needed to be in service years ago. With trails, evaluations and subsequent contract negotiations usually taking 2-3 years, let's see how many years/months this "fast tracked" process can shave off.

The HAL LUH project is a red herring in all this, they will deliver independently of the foreign LUH procurement so there's no way they should be allowed to take part in this bid as the final paragraph of this article outlines. There just isn't the time to wait until 2017 (at the earliest) for the LUH to be ready for operational service.

Which heli is / would be the front runner for this?.

@Abingdonboy, @sancho.

Hard to know really, the AS550 had come out on top in the last bid but I don't know with the years that have now passed if this is the best machine for the task anymore. I will first have to see who responds to the RFP before making my assessment.

 

[sancho]

Interesting that they are scrapping the old competition and re-tendering it. The fast-tracking promise is welcome but we'll have to wait and see how fast this really is because honestly the replacements needed to be in service years ago. With trails, evaluations and subsequent contract negotiations usually taking 2-3 years, let's see how many years/months this "fast tracked" process can shave off.

Mate, how can you make such an biased statement?

The whole article (if reliable, not sure about that) proves actually everything wrong what you said about the older MoD/DM wrt to this competition, or to BJP/Modis policies!!!

First of all, the scrapping and re-tendering of the competition is neither fastracking the competition, nor does it show the "decisiveness" that they promised and that you wanted to see. Instead of selecting 1 out of the 2 shortlisted, which has no relation to the alledged corruption issues, they seems to start a new competition with new evaluations, comercial bids and negotiations, most likely even new competitors (I'm sure the US vendors that quit the competition will urge to come back and join again), which logically delays a decision for quiet some time!

This part of the article should be interesting for you too:

after the AgustaWestland row came to light where allegations were levelled that the deal was being designed to favour the Italian defence major.
As a consequence, the army had requested the ministry to delay the acquisition process and the Director General (Acquisition) had asked Eurocopter and Kamov to extend their bids offer till the end of 2013

So not MoD or Antony delayed the deal / decision, wrt to the VIP helicopter issue, but IA did!

Based on this article, I would had expected an outrage of you (and others), for delaying the competition even further and for undecisiveness of the government / MoD, but you generously are looking away and did not started bashing BJP/Modi for the same things that you accused Antony for.

What's even more interesting for me is, that this article shows, that BJP might not simply take fast decisions, but is re-evaluating the earlier decisions, which as you know is what I said could happen in MMRCA as well!
They might be faster in deciding for an LUH or an MMRCA as a whole, but seems to want to do it based on their own evaluations and not based on the former MoDs.

Lets see what happens next and how reliable this article is...

Which heli is / would be the front runner for this?

Technically, the same as in the last 2 evaluations, the AS 550 Fennec of Airbus, but IF the competition will be rolled up completely from the start, it doesn't really matter anymore, since by the time the competition is done, HAL might have it's own LUH in production, which makes a foreign one pointless. The whole tender was only aimed on giving IA/IAF a ready and proven stopgap, till the indigenous LUH is available and mature enough, but with more delays, that simply is not the case anymore and we should fill the complete requirement of nearly 400 helicopters with indigenous once.

 

[ni8mare]

when this will be available?

 

[Abingdonboy]

Mate, how can you make such an biased statement?
The whole article (if reliable, not sure about that) proves actually everything wrong what you said about the older MoD/DM wrt to this competition, or to BJP/Modis policies!!!
First of all, the scrapping and re-tendering of the competition is neither fastracking the the competition, nor does it show the decisiveness that they promised and that you wanted to see. Instead of selecting 1 out of the 2 shortlisted, which has no relation to the alledged corruption issues, they start a new competition, they seems to start a new competition, with new evaluations, comercial bids and negotiations, most likely even new competitors (I'm sure the US vendors that quit the competition will urge to come back and join again), which logically delays a decision for quiet some time!

I know where you are coming from sir, and I'll be truthful my initial thought on just seeing the title was that the new GoI was simply going to fast track the induction of the AS550 (as the last GoI had done with the PC-7s as the need for them was so urgent). So on finding more details I am a little disappointed as this is going to be yet MORE waiting.

I am just rather pleased SOMETHING is happening, it was the endless inaction that I couldn't stand. I would have preferred if Antony had just scrapped the deal rather than continuing with delay after delay.

Anyway this move will take 2-3 years for a helo to be picked and then another 2 years for a helo to be in service- this is the standard timetable but this news mentions "fast tracking", yes details are not known but if either or both the selection/bid process or induction process is streamlined and the helos are in service a few years quicker then of course this is good news.

Technically, the same as in the last 2 evaluations, the AS 550 Fennec of Airbus, but IF the competition will be rolled up completely from the start, it doesn't really matter anymore, since by the time the competition is done, HAL might have it's own LUH in production, which makes a foreign one pointless. The whole tender was only aimed on giving IA/IAF a ready and proven stopgap, till the indigenous LUH is available and mature enough, but with more delays, that simply is not the case anymore and we should fill the complete requirement of nearly 400 helicopters with indigenous once.

I'm sorry but I don't agree. HAL will, at the earliest, be rolling out the first test bed of the LUH by mid/late 2015, they will have to make at least 2 more TPs and all 3 will have to undergo at least 2-3 years of test flying before attaining FOC then it will take another year or so for HAL to deliver the first LUH and the initial deliveries will be a trickle if the ALH program is any indication so by 2020 at most the forces would have received 50-60 brand new LUHs- just not enough. This is without encountering any unexpected delays that could crop up and often do with these Indian projects.

Under the foreign purchase 60 units will have to be delivered within 3 years of signing the deal so say the deal is signed by late 2015/early 2016- by 2020 the IA and IAF can have 120+ (foreign and HAL) LUHs in service.

The foreign LUH procurement is a must IMHO, to insulate the IA/IAF from any issues the HAL LUH my run into. If this was 2007/8 and HAL was promising their LUH by 2010 I would be advocating putting all 400+ orders on the HAL LUH but this is 2014, the HAL LUH is still only a promise and the IA and IAF are facing a terminal crunch on their Cheetahs/Cheetals meaning the ability to sustain India's presence at Siachin is under serious threat. HAL's answer to the IA/IAF over this? Cannibalise your older Cheetahs! This is no joke, they haven't said "wait we are developing a LUH that will be with you in a few years". The Indian Mil can't afford to wait for HAL on this matter- no way.

Based on this article, I would had expected an outrage of you (and others), for delaying the competition even further and for undecisiveness of the government / MoD, but you generously are looking away and did not started bashing BJP/Modi for the same things that you accused Antony for.
What's even more interesting for me is, that this article shows, that BJP might not simply take fast decisions, but is re-evaluating the earlier decisions, which as you know is what I said could happen in MMRCA as well!
They might be faster in deciding for an LUH or an MMRCA as a whole, but seems to want to do it based on their own evaluations and not based on the former MoDs.

Sir, the MMRCA and LUH deals are VERY different and as such I don't expect any such re-evaluation on the MMRCA front. The LUH deal was dealt with this way because it is tainted- as silly as the reasons are (an excluded bidder being under investigation holding up a procurement is utterly absurd) that is the truth. There is no such controversy around the MMRCA bid- at all. Additionally the motives of the Def Min in this case is to get the helos to the Indian Mil at last in as quick a manner as possible without the hint of controversy, if you extend this philosophy to the MMRCA bid this option is signing the Rafale deal SOON anything else would not have been recommended by the IAF when they made presentations to Modi and Jaitley. I am actually more confident than I have been for a few weeks on the Rafale being signed within a few months time now.

 

[sancho]

when this will be available?

First flight expected by next year, the question is how many changes in need then, before production can start and at what pace it could be delivered.

 

[Abingdonboy]

when this will be available?

2017/18 at the EARLIEST.

 

[ni8mare]

2017/18 at the EARLIEST.

so loooong time

 

[Abingdonboy]

so loooong time

Indeed......

 

[sancho]

I am just rather pleased SOMETHING is happening, it was the endless inaction that I couldn't stand.

We both would be happy if the Fennec would be selected and I had hoped for a change of the blacklisting procedure and a "real" fasttracking of this competition too, but none of the BJP supporters have voted for ANY CHANGE, but for CREDIBLE CHANGE! Now if we relate that to this competition and this article, you all must had wanted a fast decision between the 2 shortlisted helicopters and not this. Excusing the BJP if they delay things now as well, is definitely the right thing to do. Give credit for those who deserves is AND criticize those that needs to be criticized, even if you may have voted for them!

I'm sorry but I don't agree. HAL will, at the earliest, be rolling out the first test bed of the LUH by mid/late 2015, they will have to make at least 2 more TPs and all 3 will have to undergo at least 2-3 years of test flying before attaining FOC

That's speculation only and they plan to go directly for SP versions, but that needs to be seen after the first flight of course. However, the fact is, that the gap between HAL delivering their LUH, as well as evaluating, negotiating prizes fixing the contract, setting up the licence production with Indian partners and start producing a foreign might either be very small, or even not existing anymore.

Under the foreign purchase 60 units will have to be delivered within 3 years of signing the deal

Nope, the delivery of the first set is aimed at 3 years after the signature, similar to what is aimed in MMRCA, but the 60 is the total number that should be produced abroad, not the number of the first batch!

The Indian Mil can't afford to wait for HAL on this matter- no way.

It's not about waiting for HAL, which I am against as well, but if it still is worth to take a 2nd LUH instead of only the indigenous option, when both are expected in such a narrow gap.

Sir, the MMRCA and LUH deals are VERY different and as such I don't expect any such re-evaluation on the MMRCA front.

Only for the type of aircrafts, but not for the priorities (IA says they need LUH right now, just like IAF says they need MMRCAs right now), nor for the way the new MoD could take on such decisions in pending competition, ESPECIALLY, if they promised "decisiveness"!
When they now move away for this PR term to take their time to re-evaluate the competition, based on their own policy / priorities, it would be rather surprising if they wouldn't do it in the even more important and far more costly MMRCA!

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

wondering why not buying more Dhruv ,,, why going to foreign copter?

 

[Abingdonboy]

wondering why not buying more Dhruv ,,, why going to foreign copter?

ALH/Dhruvs are not in the same weight/performance category as the LUHs that the IA/IAF needs. The main issue is that the LUHs are the main means of supply for the highest and most remote bases on Siachin and these places are such that only a small and light helo (LUH) can land and operate from there. ALHs have been pushed into service as the Cheetah/Cheetals currently doing this job have decreased in number but some ALHs have been met with crashes and serious issues limiting them from doing this task- you just can't operate such large helos up there.

 

[Abingdonboy]

It's not about waiting for HAL, which I am against as well, but if it still is worth to take a 2nd LUH instead of only the indigenous option, when both are expected in such a narrow gap.

Sir, it most certainly is. As I've said the 2nd LUH deal (foreign) will insulate the IA/IAF from any potential delays/issues the HAL LUH program may run into. I'm hoping it doesn't but you and I are both smart enough to understand there is a pretty strong possibility this will happen. And why is this insulation so important you might ask, we are only talking about a few years? 1) the deal is already 3-4 years late 2) the current Cheetah/Cheetal fleet is facing a CRISIS, there aren't enough spares to go around and never will be again, the bird has been out of production for decades. HAL managed to get their hands on enough new parts (talking specifically about the Type 85 rotor blades) for 20 Cheetals but the IAF/IA had ordered 40 of these uprated helos, the remaining 20 will likely never be built now because these rotor blades cannot be found. As such the IA/IAF is facing a pretty desperate situation (that should never have arisen but that is neither here nor there) concerning their LUH fleet, one that no one can ignore nor downplay.

The Cheetal/Cheetah fleet falls below a certain number and you can kiss goodbye to the Siachin Glacier- that is the reality. Now in this context, don't you think it is better to go for the safe, proven and reliable option of a foreign LUH from a foreign OEM who you KNOW can deliver rather than HAL who's track record is, shall we say, dubious when it comes to delivering what they say in the timeframes they promise.

For you to understand where I am coming from with this call for a foreign LUH one needs to understand the crisis facing the current fleet of LUHs and unless you understand the peril that is facing that fleet you won't see things from my perspective. If you think the Cheetah/Cheetal fleet can go on for another 1-2 years should HAL LUH program run into difficulties you are WRONG.

Even IF the fast-tracked foreign LUH process saves 0 time and the first deliveries are only made around the same time the first HAL LUHs are set (right now, subject to change of course) it is a nice and dependable safety net to have should the worst/predictable (given HAL's history) happen. In this context $1.5BN to a nation like India is NOTHING.


There is a reason Modi/BJP have made this new bid for FOREIGN helos over placing all the eggs in HAL's basket with their LUH, one may have expected they would go for the Indian solution no? The IAF and IA both briefed Modi and Jaitley and you can bet your house they briefed both of them on the need for a foreign LUH above all else- regardless of what HAL say they can deliver.


Let's live in the real world sir, not some fantasy world where HAL delivers what they say when they say they will and where one has the luxury of time or taking a "wait and watch" approach.



I'm telling you, this is EXACTLY the same reason it was better to go for the PC-7s over the mythical HTT-40 1) HAL has a big mouth but nothing more than a wooden mock-up to show for a requirement that has been around for decades. 2) the needs of the forces are urgent and NOW, not some time in the distant future. 3) it is better to go for a product you can touch, test and evaluate today over a product with nothing but paper/projected specs coming sometime in the future.



I'm all for indigenous tech in the Indian military but ONLY if it doesn't compromise on the needs of the Indian Mil- that is paramount. I'm glad Modi/ the new GoI understands this.


Maybe it's time the MoD started penalising HAL for delays in delivering on its promises or making them sign legally binding contracts with set timetables that would include punishments for not delivering to the letter of these contracts as the MoD signs with foreign vendors? I don't know, that is a conversation for another place.