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Is the Pakistan army martial?

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Manas

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http://tribune.com.pk/story/444417/is-the-pakistan-army-martial/


Are Punjabi Muslims martial? Do they have a history of war and conquest or at least of resistance to conquest? I ask because there’s no evidence of their martial character in our history. No general, no subedar, no thanedar, no wazir, no bakhshi of the Mughal empire was a Punjabi Muslim so far as I know.
I might be wrong about this but there are only two Punjabi Muslims named in Mughal texts. The first is Kamaal Khan Gakkhar, who submitted (without fighting) to Akbar in 1576, according to Akbarnama. The second is Jalal Khan Gakkhar, an old man named among the victims by Jahangir in a skirmish with Afghans in 1620. A third reference is indirect, the name of the author of Shah Jahan’s Padishahnama is Shaikh Abdul Hamid “Lahori”. The Ain-e-Akbari has one joint reference to Janjuas and Awans, calling them tribes conquered by Afghans. There are of course Punjabi Hindus (mainly Khatris) who fought for the Mughals with distinction. Like Todar Mal, who led the sapping at the siege of Chittorgarh against the Sisodiya Rajputs, and also settled the revenue system for Akbar. Maathir ul Umara says Todar Mal was born in Lahore, though British scholars thought this was Laharpur in Awadh.
Where are the Punjabi Muslims? The fact is that the Punjabi Muslim is a convert mainly from the peasantry (Jat) which is not martial. General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani is Gakkhar, a caste that claims Rajput ancestry. The second Rohtas fort was built by Sher Khan Suri to pacify the Gakkhars. In his Tuzuk, Jahangir makes the remark in passing that the Gakkhars are warlike, but adds that they only fight among themselves. Meanwhile Rajput, Afghan, Maratha, Sikh, Jat (Hindu) and tribal Hindu generals all fought for and against Mughal armies. Rajputs had to be continually submitted by force, except for the loyal Kachwahas of Ambar (Jaipur). Right down to Aurangzeb, according to Maasir-e-Alamgiri, Mewar’s Sisodiyas and Marwar’s Rathors resisted the emperor. I clarify here that Muslims other than Punjabis fought the Mughals, and some very well.
Uttar Pradesh’s Rohilla Afghans were enemies of the Mughals and one of them (Najibud Daulah) ruled from Mughal Delhi for 10 years. Turkish-speaking Turani Sunnis and Farsi-speaking Irani Shias were the most important parties in the Mughal court. The former ranked as better fighters than the latter, who were better administrators. The fiercest Indian-origin Muslims were Shias, the Syeds of Barha (in Uttar Pradesh). The Maratha light cavalry was devastating and ended Muslim rule over India. The Sikhs captured Punjab and raided west up to Kabul and east up to the Doab. The Jats south of Delhi made life miserable for the later Mughals. Even the Baniya general Hemu showed martial character, almost ending Mughal rule before falling at the second battle of Panipat.
What exactly did the Punjabi Muslim do? Invaders who got past Peshawar could then only be stopped at Karnal or Panipat because they went through Punjab undisturbed. It is true that the armies of both Nadir Shah and Ahmed Shah Abdali were harassed in Punjab on their return with Mughal booty, but their attackers were Sikhs, not Muslims. Punjab was a quiet state. Punjabi Muslims neither rebelled against Mughal Delhi nor fought any invader whether Afghan or Persian. Was this because the Punjabi did not want to fight other Muslims? Not really, because he did not even resist being conquered easily by Sikhs.
It is the Englishman who 150 years ago gave the Punjabi Muslim a rifle and taught him how to use it. But this did not require any martial background. The British Bengal army was full of UP Brahmins (like Mangal Pandey). It is only after this formation of the modern regiments, that Punjabi Muslims are called martial by writers like GF MacMunn. After the English left, the record of Punjabi Muslims at war under their own generals is not sterling. I count one draw and one loss and I’m being charitable. Against the Pashtun Talib the record is not encouraging, despite the thousands of martyrs. Nadir Shah said of Indian Muslims after the battle of Karnal that they “know how to die, but not how to fight”.
This is fine and many states of India are not martial. Few soldiers were produced by Bengal’s Hindus for instance, and not many by Gujarat even today. But they don’t have the militant bombast of the Punjabi Muslim (who apparently equals 10 Hindus). I’m just wondering what this bombast is based on because I cannot figure it out.
Published in The Express Tribune, September 30th, 2012.
 
I have no idea or don't see a reason for the article to have been written. What was the logic behind the article ?? What was the Indian writer trying to say ??

He is writing about them by quoting the writings of others and did no research himself anything ??

Pathetic journalism at its best.

And as for the PA and its soldiers fighting the Taliban, they have been doing great and have fought bravely that is why these talibs are confined to the mountains or have crossed over to Afghanistan and living under someone else protection.

Mr. Aakar should not question these men while sitting across the border when he could not come to the front lines himself.

And as for Express tribune, the less said the better. Pathetic journalistic shop.
 
I have no idea or don't see a reason for the article to have been written. What was the logic behind the article ?? What was the Indian writer trying to say ??

He is writing about them by quoting the writings of others and did no research himself anything ??

Pathetic journalism at its best.

He gave his reason in the last paragrph of his article.

This is fine and many states of India are not martial. Few soldiers were produced by Bengal’s Hindus for instance, and not many by Gujarat even today. But they don’t have the militant bombast of the Punjabi Muslim (who apparently equals 10 Hindus). I’m just wondering what this bombast is based on because I cannot figure it out.

He too like indians in this forum takes swipe at the often repeated pakistani propaganda how pakistanis are martial and all while hindu indians are cowards , suggesting that Pakistanis especially punjabi muslims don't have historical or current achievements to base such boastful claims.
 
He gave his reason in the last paragrph of his article.



He too like indians in this forum takes swipe at the often repeated pakistani propaganda how pakistanis are martial and all while hindu indians are cowards , suggesting that Pakistanis especially punjabi muslims don't have historical or current achievements to base such boastful claims.

Kindly quote me a single official document of PA which says that one pak soldier is equal to 10 or that Indians are cowards. Just name one official document of the PA which says that.

If the Pak Army doesn't says such things officially, then the writer has no right to start with his non sense and utter BS.

And Pakistan Army is not made up of Punjabis only, its made up of other casts, thus taking a swipe at just one cast is not the decent and proper thing.
 
The Indo-Pakistani conflict in 1965 was fought over Kashmir and started without a formal declaration of war. The war began on August 5, the initial battles between India and Pakistan were contained within Kashmir involving both infantry and armor units with each country's air force playing major roles while the largest engagement of the war occurred in the Sialkot region. Pakistan's army had been able to withstand Indian pressure, but suffered great loses of some 3000 troops as our soldiers proved their abilities as one Pakistani soldier was equal to four Indian soldiers at that time.

from Pakistani army webpage

******* hilarious ...:lol::lol:

Pakistani Heroes and Fearless Warriors


officialy its 1 pak soldier equals 4 indian soldier , later it became 1 pakistani soldiers equals 10 indian soldiers ...:lol:
 
from Pakistani army webpage

******* hilarious ...:lol::lol:

Pakistani Heroes and Fearless Warriors


officialy its 1 pak soldier equals 4 indian soldier , later it became 1 pakistani soldiers equals 10 indian soldiers ...:lol:

Idiot, its talking about the numerical superiority, of 1 to 4. Read the whole para and then utter the BS.
 
I recommend you read this...
Awan (tribe) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

n according to this tribe's history...they Invaded India with the forces of Mehmood Ghaznavi.

John Henry Hutton has said of the Awans:
"They are exclusively Muslim and probably the descendants of some of the earlier Muslim invaders of the tenth century or earlier."

According to Philip Edward Jones:
"The Awan Tribe is perhaps the most heavily recruited tribe for the Pakistan Army."


..I say BS article coz the writer have no knowledge of the past

Lance Naik Sher Shah (VC) Awan (Recipient of the Victoria Cross, the highest recognition for valour “in the face of the enemy” that was awarded to British Empire personnel)

Subedar Hajji Fateh Khan Awan (Recipient of the Indian Order of Merit and the Italy Star)

Lieutenant General Abdul Qayyum (Former chairman of Pakistan Ordnance Factories, and former chairman of Pakistan Steel Mills. Recipient of the Hilal-i-Imtiaz, Pakistan’s second highest civilian award, and the highest medal award that can be given to those who have attained the rank of Lieutenant General)


Air Marshal Nur Khan (Commander in Chief of the Pakistan Air Force, 1965–69, Governor of West Pakistan, 1969–70, and recipient of the Hilal-i-Jurat, Pakistan’s second highest military award. A close relative of Malik Amir Mohammad Khan)

^^^^about This man President of Israel, Ezer Weizman, who was also the Commander of the Israeli Air Force and the Minister of Defense of Israel, wrote in his autobiography that: “He was a formidable fellow and I was glad that he was Pakistani and not Egyptian”.


and there are countless men who can rip indians apart anyday...

and last but not the least..Malik Abdullah Awan << this guy can beat down any Indian or non Indian(talking shi t about Pakistan) any day anywhere.. :azn:
 
Martial race theory is the biggest load of BS I have ever heard. All it was were a bunch of boot-licking Northern Indians and Pakistanis (which I am a part of) who helped the British conquer their own people like traitors of the land.

Pakistan's informal Martial race theory appeared out of the blue after the 1965 war, when the Govt of Pakistan lied to its people that they defeated India in the war, thus giving rise to these BS ideas again which had long been forgotten.
 
Only Pashtuns were known to fight war, rest were just conquered people by one or the other like Pashtuns, Turks, Arabs or Mongols.
 
I recommend you read this...
Awan (tribe) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

n according to this tribe's history...they Invaded India with the forces of Mehmood Ghaznavi.

John Henry Hutton has said of the Awans:
"They are exclusively Muslim and probably the descendants of some of the earlier Muslim invaders of the tenth century or earlier."

According to Philip Edward Jones:
"The Awan Tribe is perhaps the most heavily recruited tribe for the Pakistan Army."


..I say BS article coz the writer have no knowledge of the past

Lance Naik Sher Shah (VC) Awan (Recipient of the Victoria Cross, the highest recognition for valour “in the face of the enemy” that was awarded to British Empire personnel)

Subedar Hajji Fateh Khan Awan (Recipient of the Indian Order of Merit and the Italy Star)

Lieutenant General Abdul Qayyum (Former chairman of Pakistan Ordnance Factories, and former chairman of Pakistan Steel Mills. Recipient of the Hilal-i-Imtiaz, Pakistan’s second highest civilian award, and the highest medal award that can be given to those who have attained the rank of Lieutenant General)


Air Marshal Nur Khan (Commander in Chief of the Pakistan Air Force, 1965–69, Governor of West Pakistan, 1969–70, and recipient of the Hilal-i-Jurat, Pakistan’s second highest military award. A close relative of Malik Amir Mohammad Khan)

^^^^about This man President of Israel, Ezer Weizman, who was also the Commander of the Israeli Air Force and the Minister of Defense of Israel, wrote in his autobiography that: “He was a formidable fellow and I was glad that he was Pakistani and not Egyptian”.


and there are countless men who can rip indians apart anyday...

and last but not the least..Malik Abdullah Awan << this guy can beat down any Indian or non Indian(talking shi t about Pakistan) any day anywhere..
:azn:

Ok mr internet tough guy :P
 
Whoever Invaded India specially from Afghanistan their army was recruited from the Punjab, Afghan loterey came with lots of money and hired an army from Punjab before attacking India. This is how Mughals conquered India, this is how Shershah Suri built his empire so yes Punjabis specially the belt from Attock to Jehlum are martial by nature. this was there main profession since the land didnt produced much in those areas so in their free time they fought wars to supplement their income. This is why Punjabis have such a big influence not only in Pakistan where they are large in numbers compared to population but also in India where punjabis are smaller portion of their population. Those who fight can take a bigger piece of pie
 
from Pakistani army webpage

******* hilarious ...:lol::lol:

Pakistani Heroes and Fearless Warriors


officialy its 1 pak soldier equals 4 indian soldier , later it became 1 pakistani soldiers equals 10 indian soldiers ...:lol:

Can you stop your BS

"Pakistan's army had been able to withstand Indian pressure, but suffered great loses of some 3000 troops as our soldiers proved their abilities as one Pakistani soldier was equal to four Indian soldiers at that time."

thats what quote there. Did you try to read complete sentence or just stop at one soldier is equal to Four?
 


Can you stop your BS

"Pakistan's army had been able to withstand Indian pressure, but suffered great loses of some 3000 troops as our soldiers proved their abilities as one Pakistani soldier was equal to four Indian soldiers at that time."

thats what quote there. Did you try to read complete sentence or just stop at one soldier is equal to Four?

Plz don't feed the troll and other members should refrain from non sense and BS discussion.
 
Whoever Invaded India specially from Afghanistan their army was recruited from the Punjab, Afghan loterey came with lots of money and hired an army from Punjab before attacking India. This is how Mughals conquered India, this is how Shershah Suri built his empire so yes Punjabis specially the belt from Attock to Jehlum are martial by nature. this was there main profession since the land didnt produced much in those areas so in their free time they fought wars to supplement their income. This is why Punjabis have such a big influence not only in Pakistan where they are large in numbers compared to population but also in India where punjabis are smaller portion of their population. Those who fight can take a bigger piece of pie

Afghans (for example Durani) invaded present day Pakistan (especially Punjab/Sindh) and parts of Northern India like Punjab/Kashmir etc. Their invading Army was all Afghans, and they fought against Punjabis to defeat and capture present day Pakistan and parts of Northern India.

Back in the day, religion really did not matter, what mattered was ethnicity and race in South Asia. Punjabis and Afghans have had a pretty bloody history of fighting and invading going on with one another, whether it was Ranjit Singh or the Durrani empire. It was only in the Early Twentieth Century when independence was going to be given to two political identities (Inida/Pak) by British did the religion card start playing such a big role in world affairs.
 
Back in the day, religion really did not matter, what mattered was ethnicity and race in South Asia.

One such example is centuries of bloodshed between Pashtuns vs Mughals.
 
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